LCA Tejas is far superior than Mirage-2000 and the Chinese JF-17

[Alok Arya]

This is the first time I saw arguments like "Tejas is less tiring" and "IFR probe is useless because the pilot is too tired".

Normally I don't reply to ridiculous arguments like these, but the shock value from your post alone is worth replying to.

Alright, what's first.

Literally all the news articles about what the block 2 upgrade is will tell you there is a upgrade to avionics. And it's on JF-17's wikipedia page. If it's too inauthentic to you, I'm sure plently in the JF-17 section of this forum would be willing to tell you. I'm too tired to be looking for a link from my phone at 5AM in the morning.
Also, since you asked me to support my claim. Please support your claims of "flying a quad fbw plane is hand free job and flying a plane with out same is too tiring(by the way do you even know what redundancy is for?)" and "is of no value as pilot is already exhausted". With "authentic link", of course. And the standard of the link's authenticity is ambiguous that is deemed by me.


What makes you think that JF-17 pilot would be tired just after 45 minutes of flying? This is not WWII, when you have to change the trim, fuel mixture, propeller pitch constantly just to maintain a level flight. Even the early JF-17 with pitch only FBW had stability control for yaw and roll. The plane would happily maintain its attitude by itself.


Assuming "Non-quad-redundant FBW makes pilot tired, so tired that they can't complete a IFR after 45 minutes." is true.(Which it isn't.)
Be sure to tell that to designers of early planes with IFR probe but not FBW, that "it is of cosmetic value". They don't even have FBW, IFR probes must be for less than cosmetic value!


Alright, I accept this explaination. So they wasted their opportunity on saving weight by have a massive wing then? Okay. Hope the lower wing loading is worth it.
But I wonder where this "which is going to reduced for Tejas" comes from. If you look at pretty much ALL historical plane developments, they only get heavier.


Really, find a Tejas vs Thunder argument. ANYWHERE. I guarantee that the word "composite" will be mentioned.


We are comparing planes here, not budget or training. Stay on topic would ya.


I believe my English is not good enough to comprehend this argument.

Yes sir non quad fbw is more tiring , more attentive , pilot has less time to focus no weapon system . Also non quad fbw usually used in plane which are non rss .

You are right block 2 has lot of improvement in avionics . But fbw is not avionics . It is basic aircraft system . I am not not saying that future version of jf 17 may not have quad fbw . There can be very well quad in future version, but at present there is no authentic new of quad fbw in block 2 or 3 . So it is not present only assumption are there .

Wing area is degine parameter . Tejas wing give Tejas high agility , lower wing loading , true vortex effect negating need of canard , and these are all parameter from where Tejas edge jf 17 in basic degine with superior performance however it is very slight according to you . But I appreciate you to give us slight edge .

Weight saving will come from HAL work on lca navy with redegining of landing gear and some over engineered part , removal of ballast in nose cone , and use of better composite . But you are again true that developmental history of planes mark by weight gain due to avionics . And this is the case for both Tejas and jf 17 , both will go heavier with future addition of avionics so some of Tejas weight reduction will be negated by weight gain because of avionics .

You are dense mate, with PAC producing some 16 aircraft per year and current strength of around 80 JF-17s, how is it possible that PAF had 70 Thunders for the last five years......easy maths.

I know that fighter no is increasing with time , so is flight hour , that is why I give flight hour in range , from 10 to 20,000 hr total .

 

[hussain0216]

How can it be???????

It just dosent make sense!

How can the Indian navy reject such a great plane and why oh why is the indian airforce so unhappy with the LCA that its searching for a foreign single engine fighter exactly like the LCA to do the job the LCA allegedly can do

It makes noooo sense

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Or does it?

 

[SipahSalar]

but can it fly?

 

[Alok Arya]

How can it be???????

It just dosent make sense!

How can the Indian navy reject such a great plane and why oh why is the indian airforce so unhappy with the LCA that its searching for a foreign single engine fighter exactly like the LCA to do the job the LCA allegedly can do

It makes noooo sense

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Or does it?

Indian navy say Tejas mark 1 navy is not suited for carrier operation because it donot fit in operational criteria made by Indian navy .
However Tejas mark 1 navy continue to develop as a prototype vehicle to showcase technology used in Tejas mark 2 navy with the backing of navy .
This all are very clear to mod , drdo, ada from the inception of programme , it is not new thing . New thing is hurry of navy to fulfil operation requirements for future carrier .
A firm requirement of 46 Tejas mark 2 navy is there with first flight in 2020 late or early 2021 .

 

[hussain0216]

Indian navy say Tejas mark 1 navy is not suited for carrier operation because it donot fit in operational criteria made by Indian navy .
However Tejas mark 1 navy continue to develop as a prototype vehicle to showcase technology used in Tejas mark 2 navy with the backing of navy .
This all are very clear to mod , drdo, ada from the inception of programme , it is not new thing . New thing is hurry of navy to fulfil operation requirements for future carrier .
A firm requirement of 46 Tejas mark 2 navy is there with first flight in 2020 late or early 2021 .

Sure!!!

Its understandable you only had 4 decades to develop and build a plane suitable for the navy and airforce

 

[PakEye]

2 crashes in a short life ..I really wonder if the 17 can fly successfully.

lol except a 40 years old prototype waiting for FOC ...

 

[gambit]

You are right that if flcs contain above concept , manual flight is not tiring . But jf 17 is total manual except pitch so it is tiring to fly . I am not saying that it can not have quad fbw in future . It may very well come , but at present it is not . This is the fact . What I can do in it .

I am not going to dig into the JF-17, but I have no problem expressing 100% confidence that the JF-17 have stability augmentation in all three flight axes.

 

[kabooter_maila]

After building light combat aircraft (LCA) - Tejas - India's target is to build fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) indigenously. This is what H Siddesha, project director and technology director of LCA at the Aeronautical Development Agency of Ministry of Defense said here on Friday.

Siddesha was in the city to deliver a guest lecture on the inaugural day of Footprints X7 - Gujarat's largest technical event organised for three days by the students of M S University's Faculty of Technology and Engineering for the seventeenth consecutive year.

FGFA, which is under development, is very much a future requirement for the Indian Air Force (IAF) upgrade programme. "It should take flight in 2028," he said.

Talking about Tejas, which has been inducted in the IAF, he said, IAF has placed an order of 123 Tejas Mark 1. "Every year, 16 Tejas aircrafts will be built on two assembly lines. By 2024, all the aircrafts will be inducted in the IAF whereas Tejas Mark 2 version will be ready by 2021," he said, adding that Tejas is superior than France's Mirage and China's JF-17 fighter jets.
"So far, Tejas has taken 4,000 flights and in none of them it has met with even a minor accident which is a record in itself.

The technical staff can replace engine of Tejas within 45 minutes and the cockpit and flight control system are world class," he said, adding that although some countries have evinced interest in procuring Tejas from India, the government is yet to take the decision on whether it should be exported. On the inaugural day of Footprints, Dr Ulrich Bez, former CEO and current non executive chairman of Aston Martin also delivered a guest lecture while a workshop of 'Biped Robotics' where participants were taught how to make an autonomous robot capable of running, walking and even doing 180 degree split was taught to the participants.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/L...than-Mirage-2000-and-the-Chinese-JF-17-250673

"After building light combat aircraft (LCA) - Tejas - India's target is to build fifth generation ..."
After building? haan, where, on paper? A junk that Indian forces rejected despite political/mafia pressure. I wish you guys similar success for 5th generation fighter too. Spend another 35 years to come up with an obsolete and absolute junk plane that not even IAF would accept.

 

[Mrc]

I will settle this argument ...

Tejas is superior in certain aspects...like riding a truck

 

[Trango Towers]

I will settle this argument ...

Tejas is superior in certain aspects...like riding a truck

I simply cannot argue with this statement
Signed DRO India

I am not going to dig into the JF-17, but I have no problem expressing 100% confidence that the JF-17 have stability augmentation in all three flight axes.

What are you talking about. Do you even know what stability augmentation is

 

[gambit]

What are you talking about. Do you even know what stability augmentation is

Most likely -- better than you do.

But fbw is not avionics .

Am going to ask you to stop talking about aviation in general.

 

[MastanKhan]

What are you talking about. Do you even know what stability augmentation is

Hi,

It is requested that the new posters look at the tile of the poster and comment accordingly---.

Telling @gambit if he knows about aircraft is like ' teaching grandma how to suck eggs '----.

 

[Centurion2016]

The.posters have eloquently explained to fan boys why the thunder is inferior to both the mirage 2000/5 and the tejas .

Namely the thunder has no
Hmd or off boresight fourth generation wvr missle capability. The tejas has this thanks to Israel andI mirage2000 has a french equipped version.

Secondly the thunders airframe and fbw are third generation standard no compsite only fbw in pitch axis ie single digital fbw.

The thunder to date uses only chinease weapons and radars .

The Israel systems and weapons are combat proven as are the french

Chineaae thunders technology nobody knows. It's capability vis a be french and Israel which is world class

Tejas has just arrived but will outnumber thunder in a decade

Paf has acquired 80 thunders in ten years and these are only block one and two.

The talk of adding aesa hmd and hobs and computes airframe will only slow the eight per year inductor .Pakistan simply does not have the money.

Tejas numbers will catch pak thunders in numbers in tens years I'm sure.

 

[salarsikander]

So simple you have 70 jf 17 for at least 5 year with 10 to 20,000 flying hour . Calculus your self . All data from PDF . Actually it is very low and show low availability, high maintenance prone , high vulnerability prone unrated rd 93 with very low mtbo and very low total life .

Not authentic proof. Just typical waste from your rear. Post reported for spreading false info

 

[krash]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale

Scrol down to accidents .. tssk tay

Think he was referring to the LCA. I doubt he's ignorant enough to not realise that the JF-17 too has been taken to war, maybe even more than the Rafale. @Taygibay