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LCA Mk.II only by 2024: DRDO Chief

the Indian version of a super Mirage 2000

why oh why didn't you just buy the rights to build the Mirage 2000 and pimp it out.



Prove your point with facts Janab

There's no point pursuing a 4.5th gen fighter post 2020, abandon the Mk II, and induct 150-200 odd Mk 1A, and redirect all the funds towards AMCA and FGFA.

Many of the subsystems for AMCA could be tested on MK-2. Best way is MK-1 --> MK-2 --> AMCA.

2024 is when AMCA needs to fly.

Parrikar are you listening. Offload LCA MK II from DRDO and hand it over to HAL. ..........ASAP. ..... and don't forget to FUND it.

When you say needs to fly --- Fly what Prototype or Series Production ??
 
There's no point pursuing a 4.5th gen fighter post 2020, abandon the Mk II, and induct 150-200 odd Mk 1A, and redirect all the funds towards AMCA and FGFA.


Don't forget to add single engine stealth jet based on LCA. I think IAF will most likely to keep 3 tiers of jet, small, medium and large. Point-attack-air superiority.
 
If we had rival companies like boeing vs northrop they would strive to get it out faster into prodn. But unfortunately we dont have this luxury so DRDO can take it for granted. What makes you think AMCA or FGFA would not run into same issue?

That would need to develop the Aerospace culture, and the environment when pvt. companies like TATA and Relience invest on R&D.
 
When you say needs to fly --- Fly what Prototype or Series Production ??

Anything. Something. DRDO needs to take this to the next level and let HAL take care of LCA Evolution.

DRDO should stick to AMCA.
 
Prove your point with facts Janab



Many of the subsystems for AMCA could be tested on MK-2. Best way is MK-1 --> MK-2 --> AMCA.



When you say needs to fly --- Fly what Prototype or Series Production ??


prove what points??
 
prove what points??

That it is beneficial to dump LCA program, and go for Mirrage 2000 or 4000(Super Mirrage 2000)

Anything. Something. DRDO needs to take this to the next level and let HAL take care of LCA Evolution.

DRDO should stick to AMCA.

Why confusing everything --

MK-1 first 20 of IOC-2 level (2015-march 2016 - 2 unit, 2016-2017 - 4 unit, 2017-2018 - 12-14 unit)

MK-1 SOP-18 Level (2018 onwards till 2024-2025)

MK-2 first flight 2019-2020
MK-2 Ready upto 2025-2026 (Till then may be Indigenous AESA Uttam, and Kaveri K-10) gets ready
First few MK-2 (99 GE 414IN6) for MK-2, and Naval MK-2, and latter K-10 gets mature enough.

AMCA -- First flight expected 2026-2027, Ready till 2034-35

Anything. Something. DRDO needs to take this to the next level and let HAL take care of LCA Evolution.

DRDO should stick to AMCA.

LCA is ADA's program and HAL is the lead integrator.
HAL's last R&D for the combat aircraft was Marut, around 40 year ago, and all the R&D team have been dissolved or being retired.

Before AMCA -- Many technologies boundaries have to be broken and would be challenges many manifold.
 
why oh why didn't you just buy the rights to build the Mirage 2000 and pimp it out.

And leave the chance of LCA being rechristened Longest Coming Aircraft? You are joking right? We want to showcase what the world can do in 15 - 20 years tops we can refine it over 2 centuries and yet not reach anywhere. That takes a great effort and patience. We are on meditation role ... come join us ... ooooppppss I forgot , we are already exporting plenty of Indians to US to bring you down to our level ...

All of india hard cash and supa pawa talks are on F-16 threads but when on tejas and rafeal threads they only talk about discounts and more time needed.

While Pakistan will be getting its F-16, vipers and MI-35 in 2017.

Eat them then ... we sure wont be fighting you or you us with them ....
 
LCA is ADA's program and HAL is the lead integrator.
HAL's last R&D for the combat aircraft was Marut, around 40 year ago, and all the R&D team have been dissolved or being retired.

Before AMCA -- Many technologies boundaries have to be broken and would be challenges many manifold.

LCA is a PROGRAM. A Program by definition has a END DATE. LCA development is complete. The Program is OVER.

Time to hand over the baby to the parents and move on to the NEXT PROGRAM.

Evolution of the LCA should now be HAL's responsibility or ANY other private organization. All GoI has to do is FUND it. There will be plenty who will want to take it up if FUNDING is available.

DRDO should move onto AMCA and start breaking the boundaries you have mentioned and take up the challenges. And they need to put their BEST men on the job. Men who have experience in developing the LCA.
 
the Indian version of a super Mirage 2000

why oh why didn't you just buy the rights to build the Mirage 2000 and pimp it out.


Okay, let's suppose, India copies or reverse engineers weapons. Your friend China copied plenty of Sukhois and MiGs.
But what do you guys do? Tell me. :azn:
 
LCA is a PROGRAM. A Program by definition has a END DATE. LCA development is complete. The Program is OVER.

Every Program, have some goal -- here in this case to lower the technological gap, and to develop the whole ecosystem in the country to make self reliance in combat aircraft, and in this learning procedure develop and build, a fighter plane called LCA - later named Tejas by former PM Atal Bihari Bajpai which was planned to replaced the ageing old Mig-21 which was bought from Soviet, and later licensed produced by HAL. The program is not over Yet.

Time to hand over the baby to the parents and move on to the NEXT PROGRAM.

ADA is the chief designer of the LCA so it becomes father or mother whatever you can call.
HAL is the chief integrator of the LCA, so when LCA will be produced, it will be called HAL Tejas instead of LCA Tejas.
Design have been frozen and SOP given to the HAL, now HAL will plan, design gigs, dies, tools, machning to produce LCA of which 20 will be of IOC stage, and rest 100 will be of SOP-18.
There is no MK-1A, its just named by some jurno in an article.


You are confused ADA is just a developer of the LCA Tejas.
ADA will move on to next project aka MK-2 and naval MK-2, but before that ADA need to certify this plane with SOP-18 level, and the certification is not done by ADA, but the institutions like CELEMAC, CABS etc. and after the production HAL will certify the quality of the product from its production

As far as you idea of simply giving it to the private players is concerned, than there is no Indian Pvt. company, that have the technologies, machining, and experience to take up this fighter plane development other than producing subsystem, and that's whats happening here where HAL will be the chief integrators, but pvt players could get the subsystem building shares.


Evolution of the LCA should now be HAL's responsibility or ANY other private organization. All GoI has to do is FUND it. There will be plenty who will want to take it up if FUNDING is available.

When LCA is not developed by HAL, so how could the evolution of the LCA is HAL's responsibility. They are been given a blueprints, SOP, and all design drawing and list of subsystem to build a fighter planes that's it and they will be paid for that.

And why should GOI give fund for R&D, when they got fund 1200 Crore for setting up the line for the production of the LCA Tejas, half of which will be paid by IAF, and IN combined.

DRDO should move onto AMCA and start breaking the boundaries you have mentioned and take up the challenges. And they need to put their BEST men on the job. Men who have experience in developing the LCA.

AMCA still in preliminary design phase, and they haven't recieved money to launch full scale R&D yet, but before that IAF or IN have to issue ASQR to tell what are their requirement.

Okay, let's suppose, India copies or reverse engineers weapons. Your friend China copied plenty of Sukhois and MiGs.
But what do you guys do? Tell me. :azn:

OLD story, it was the plan in 80's when IAF plan was to acquire 160 Mirrage 2000 with first 50 fly away, and later 110 licence build by HAL, but for unknown reason the Congress led govt. develop's love for the Soviet and decided to stop at 50 number, and they went for MIg-29, Mig-23 for air superiority, and for ground attack MIg-27.
 
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Every Program, have some goal -- here in this case to lower the technological gap, and to develop the whole ecosystem in the country to make self reliance in combat aircraft, and in this learning procedure develop and build, a fighter plane called LCA - later named Tejas by former PM Atal Bihari Bajpai which was planned to replaced the ageing old Mig-21 which was bought from Soviet, and later licensed produced by HAL. The program is not over Yet.

The objective of the LCA is to make a Light Combat Aircraft, not build an ecosystem :cheesy:

FOC is the FINAL part of the program.

ADA is the chief designer of the LCA so it becomes father or mother whatever you can call.
HAL is the chief integrator of the LCA, so when LCA will be produced, it will be called HAL Tejas instead of LCA Tejas.
Design have been frozen and SOP given to the HAL, now HAL will plan, design gigs, dies, tools, machning to produce LCA of which 20 will be of IOC stage, and rest 100 will be of SOP-18.
There is no MK-1A, its just named by some jurno in an article.
Do you have a point ?

You are confused ADA is just a developer of the LCA Tejas.
ADA will move on to next project aka MK-2 and naval MK-2, but before that ADA need to certify this plane with SOP-18 level, and the certification is not done by ADA, but the institutions like CELEMAC, CABS etc. and after the production HAL will certify the quality of the product from its production

WRONG on ALL counts. The Certifying agency is CEMILAC.

Production quality certification and FAI is done by DGAQA, not HAL.

MK2 is EVOLUTION of the LCA. If HAL wants more orders of LCA it needs to either take effort to evolve it or outsource its Evolution. ADA needs to utilize its resources more efficiently and make an organic growth and move onto next gen AMCA.

As far as you idea of simply giving it to the private players is concerned, than there is no Indian Pvt. company, that have the technologies, machining, and experience to take up this fighter plane development other than producing subsystem, and that's whats happening here where HAL will be the chief integrators, but pvt players could get the subsystem building shares.

WRONG. There are plenty of pvt. companies that can invest in R&D, machining etc. GoI/MoD new rules provide state funding for R&D so there will be PLENTY of takers. This includes Airframe evolution too.

When LCA is not developed by HAL, so how could the evolution of the LCA is HAL's responsibility. They are been given a blueprints, SOP, and all design drawing and list of subsystem to build a fighter planes that's it and they will be paid for that.

Because LCA has been handed over to HAL and now HAL has OWNERSHIP of LCA. The IP rights have been sold to HAL. It does not belong to ADA anymore. That is how it works in the real world.

IF IAI and SAAB can offer to upgrade the LCA and evolve it , HAL sure as hell can. Do you know how toyota started building engines ?

And why should GOI give fund for R&D, when they got fund 1200 Crore for setting up the line for the production of the LCA Tejas, half of which will be paid by IAF, and IN combined.

Its called State funding of R&D and Defence R&D fund. India spends 0.9 % on R&D, China spends 1.97 %.

IAF & IN paid for the aircraft, not the production line of HAL. Again that is how it works in the real world.

AMCA still in preliminary design phase, and they haven't recieved money to launch full scale R&D yet, but before that IAF or IN have to issue ASQR to tell what are their requirement.

Yes, that is why MoD needs to step up and make IAF a partner to the AMCA program and not its "customer".
 
The objective of the LCA is to make a Light Combat Aircraft, not build an ecosystem :cheesy:

FOC is the FINAL part of the program.

LOL when you don't know the real objective or fail to do so, why arguing. Pls google it.

Do you have a point ?

Those are for you, as you seem to be confused.

WRONG on ALL counts. The Certifying agency is CEMILAC.

Production quality certification and FAI is done by DGAQA, not HAL.

MK2 is EVOLUTION of the LCA. If HAL wants more orders of LCA it needs to either take effort to evolve it or outsource its Evolution. ADA needs to utilize its resources more efficiently and make an organic growth and move onto next gen AMCA.

HOlla Ha ha DGAQA !! LOLs

DGAQA is responsible for Quality Assurance and acceptance of Airborne stores and relate equipments produced at various PSUs, DRDO, Ordnance Factories and Private sectors including various missiles.

Janab when the LCA Tejas MK1 or should I say HAL Tejas MK-1 is given to the user IAF, then HAL is responsible for the aircraft production quality, in the same way Dassault or LM or Boeing is responsible for there respective aircraft irrespective of the various subsystem sourced from various OEMs.

And for the IP right Janab Su 30 is based on Su-27 designed by Sukhoi, which is produced by Irkut cop, and Chinese su 30MKK is produced by KOEPP, so who have the ip right of the flankers ? any guess ?

And for MK-2, it was originally the Indian Navy requirement of the higher thrust which is required for the carrier operation with the useful load, and IAF somehow got interested in it.

WRONG. There are plenty of pvt. companies that can invest in R&D, machining etc. GoI/MoD new rules provide state funding for R&D so there will be PLENTY of takers. This includes Airframe evolution too.

Because LCA has been handed over to HAL and now HAL has OWNERSHIP of LCA. The IP rights have been sold to HAL. It does not belong to ADA anymore. That is how it works in the real world.

IP right of what ?? FBW, EW suites designed by DARE, Air intake nozzle design, Software Tools developed for design of aerodynamic design, and analysis of wing tunnel models, Air flight Data, HUDs, LRUs, Brakes, OBOGL, MAWs, RWR, developed by various PSUs.

Janab, why in Behrain it was marketed by ADA, and not by HAL ??

IF IAI and SAAB can offer to upgrade the LCA and evolve it , HAL sure as hell can. Do you know how toyota started building engines ?

Care to explain, but do you know who is building F-404IN20 engine and does HAL will gets its IP right also. LOL

IAF & IN paid for the aircraft, not the production line of HAL. Again that is how it works in the real world.

Google it, and pls study before typing all non sense.

Yes, that is why MoD needs to step up and make IAF a partner to the AMCA program and not its "customer".

Wrong, what is required is the agency like DARPA in US, which predicts the future requirement of the various forces of the country, works with the GOVT. to create the technology, workforce (scientists, engineers, workforce) and become the bridge between the DRDO/ADA/HAL and not IAF and IN to look as the face of the ADA/HAL/DRDO to give them product unaware whether the technology or the workforce is in the country or not or reverse watching the users face to find what is their requirement before they start working on the project unknowing how a war is been fought or the new strategy of the war.
 
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