LCA :: Affordable air power

[manojb]

What is the exact Pakistani contribution in JF 17, apart from money?

Does painting count?

 

[HariPrasad]

That's nonsense! Rafale has AESA radar operational in service and came to India with AESA radar for the MMRCA trials. The Mig AESA demonstrator was shown only in Russia, while Mikoyan was only able to send modified Mig 29Ks to India to do the trials, by the simple fact that there is no real Mig 35 prototype available till now. Same reason why Saab send Gripen C/Ds to do the trials and while the Gripen NG (also not a real prototype of the version they offered to us) came only a month later and did only a small part of the required trials.
The fact that even the Russians now just ordered 16 x Mig 29SMTs and not new Mig 35s, basically to keep the production line of the Migs open to hope that any export country would go for the Mig 35 later tells much about the hope on that fighter.

Jane's says that France received first Rafale in September 2013 only.

Tomorrow u will compare SUPARCO to ISRO?

I have read the post of some Pakistani Members posting that SUPERCO is far ahead of ISRO.

 

[nair]

Siachen? 71 invading East Pakistan? ring any bell

No Ring, since there is no Bell....

1) Siachen cannot be an invasion..... it was technically a operation to resist an invasion..... Just a check on the history will tell you it wasnt an invasion
2) Invasion is technically something a unilateral.... may be something like Saddam did on kuwait..... But was that the case in 1971??? No.... Who fired the first bullet? Who bombed the airfields of punjab and rajasthan?

Btw lets lets take that subject to another thread, otherwise we both will derail this one....

 

[nair]

There is already running thread on Siachen, We will discuss it there

That can be done.... But now mujhe week end enjoy karna hein.....

 

[HariPrasad]

Comparisons are not so simplistic

But very much indicative.

HAL is a bad organisation compared to international standards but even comparing it to PAC is a waste of time.

I would say that it is a lethargic organization with some brilliant scientist and technologists.

 

[NKVD]

There is already running thread on Siachen, We will discuss it there



ermmm, you didn't counter my argument effectively dude... A one liner is worst in a meaningful discussion

Edited my post dude go and see

 

[ViXuyen]

Can people post videos of HAL facilities?

 

[NKVD]

Can people post videos of HAL facilities?

Go see youtube National geographic made a documentry on it

 

[Sergi]

DRDO developed FBW system for JF 17.

You f@cking kidding me !!!
Edit it

 

[Bratva]

I am talking about critical tech like Radar and FBW.

Te FBW used in Tejas is developed by DRDO.

Anyway thanks.



Next time ask him what he is smoking.



We designed Tejas in house (with design consultancy form some companies), but still it is dveloped and desgined by India, not JV.

This is not true for JF-17; Majority systems are developed by China.

While Pakistan has build some avionics for JF 17 you have not made it clear whther they are "built" or "developed" by Pakistan. You know what is the diffidence between them.

IN any case it is clear that PAC has not developed critical things like FBW system, while DRDO developed FBW system for JF 17.

Hence end of comparison, indeed.

Pakistan Designed JF-17? YES

Co-OEM of JF-17? YES.

No matter how much you twist the matter by pointing pakistan didn't build this or that, but in the end. OEM is OEM. Hence JF-17 can't be compared with SU-30 Project. and that's what I was arguing with them that SU-30 And JF-17 can't be compared.

Yeah it's a JV as well since Pakistan didn't knew several things about building JF-17. So China taught us. No Shame whatsoever in admitting that.

I like to begin with the very first line of your comment; FACTS & FIGURES. This is something which one don't find for Jf-17 and to a very big coincident even in your comment. And before calling my figures as misleading, please tell me which part of LCA's figure you doubt from my claim and I will provide you a link for the same and not from some un named officials but some representative from HAL, DRDO, Test pilots words of Tejas or other reliable source.

I said Jf-17 can't do a vertical loop. Please give me a source for this if it has.

I said Radar on Tejas is superior to that of one on Jf-17. You can find specs for both the radars and please illuminate me with justification if you don't feel so.

LCA has got internal EW system which Jf-17 doesn't offer (atleast blk1 doesn't)

Please provide a reliable link for your claim of 2m2 RCS of Jf17, which anyway is more than LCA (many claims it to be little less than 1/3 of mirage-2000).

Jf-17 has achieved 26 degree AoA. Congratulations. Please tell me how much time it took to complete a vertical loop and horizontal loop.(From any reliable source, and not word of mouth)

Well I did say, Go to JF-17 Info pool thread, One didn't find any because One is wasting time in most silly and idiotic debates and haven't look around at JF-17 info pool thread, or one wouldn't be having this debate. You will find JF-17 project director interviews .Updated stats of JF-17 radar detection range (130-140 KM for 5m^2) so how it is inferior to Teja's radar? . JF-17 EW systems (Spanish RWR, MAWS, German SDR etc etc) so how it is inferior to Teja's. and yet you are arguing with me without any updated knowledge about JF-17. How can i convince you when you are refusing to update your outdated knowledge regarding JF-17? All your queries are in JF-17 info pool thread.

You are welcome to send email to Pakistan Aeronautical to ask them how much JF-17 took time to execute vertical and horizontal loop. I'm sure they will satisfy your query or else
you can Shed your stubbornness and look at JF-17 2013 Dubai video performance.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Pakistan Designed JF-17? YES

Co-OEM of JF-17? YES.

No matter how much you twist the matter by pointing pakistan didn't build this or that, but in the end. OEM is OEM. Hence JF-17 can't be compared with SU-30 Project. and that's what I was arguing with them that SU-30 And JF-17 can't be compared.

Yeah it's a JV as well since Pakistan didn't knew several things about building JF-17. So China taught us. No Shame whatsoever in admitting that.

Still most of the things you buy from china and outside to make your JF-17. SU-30 and JF-17 can't be compared because in case of SU-30 , and everything from Airframe to engine is now made in India while for JF-17 , airframe and chine need to be brought from outside.

PAK dose not design JF-17 , only china did, that why China holds the IPR for the same and it also said that it will china manufacture and sell JF-17 if ever happens. it cant only outsource some part of that .

BTW , how many parts in JF-17 made in PAK by PAK itself?

Well I did say, Go to JF-17 Info pool thread, One didn't find any because One is wasting time in most silly and idiotic debates and haven't look around at JF-17 info pool thread, or one wouldn't be having this debate. You will find JF-17 project director interviews .Updated stats of JF-17 radar detection range (130-140 KM for 5m^2) so how it is inferior to Teja's radar? . JF-17 EW systems (Spanish RWR, MAWS, German SDR etc etc) so how it is inferior to Teja's. and yet you are arguing with me without any updated knowledge about JF-17. How can i convince you when you are refusing to update your outdated knowledge regarding JF-17? All your queries are in JF-17 info pool thread.

You are welcome to send email to Pakistan Aeronautical to ask them how much JF-17 took time to execute vertical and horizontal loop. I'm sure they will satisfy your query or else
you can Shed your stubbornness and look at JF-17 2013 Dubai video performance.

JF-17 itself tried to hide information and even here also . Some asked in the forum and also PAK, if JF-17 fly in night when it was inducted , everyone was dumb and said ,information is secret if it can fly in night capability.

But then point is now JF-17-II is trying to match present LCA-1 by bring more add on which are present in LCA -1.

Jane's says that France received first Rafale in September 2013 only.




I have read the post of some Pakistani Members posting that SUPERCO is far ahead of ISRO.

PAK president also claim that PAK SATS are more superior then indian SATS......so you can how much PAK people willing to lie to say ahead and fudge data.

 

[Bratva]

Still most of the things you buy from china and outside to make your JF-17. SU-30 and JF-17 can't be compared because in case of SU-30 , and everything from Airframe to engine is now made in India while for JF-17 , airframe and chine need to be brought from outside.

PAK dose not design JF-17 , only china did, that why China holds the IPR for the same and it also said that it will china manufacture and sell JF-17 if ever happens. it cant only outsource some part of that .

BTW , how many parts in JF-17 made in PAK by PAK itself?


JF-17 itself tried to hide information and even here also . Some asked in the forum and also PAK, if JF-17 fly in night when it was inducted , everyone was dumb and said ,information is secret if it can fly in night capability.

But then point is now JF-17-II is trying to match present LCA-1 by bring more add on which are present in LCA -1.

So Is LCA. Hence Negate the rest of your rants. Please proof with something concrete that shows PAK DOES NOT DESIGN JF-17? and pray tell us who said that china manufacture and sell JF-17?

In Case of SU-30, indian materials are used to build things. Most of the things still come in kits or else HAL wouldn't be asking for Russian help if India were building everything in house !

And regarding night sorties of JF-17, PAF hasn't disclosed it's night sortie operational deployment. When they do, I will happily tag you there.

And damn the funds and the civilian government, PAC would have achieved the capability of building airframe if Zardari Gov has funded it properly. Even we had to procure chinese loan to keep production of JF-17 afloat. Acquiring additional capabilities were put on hold until government released funds. 2008-2013. That's been 5-6 years PAC been running thin on funds from GOV. The issue is FUNDS, not that PAC can't develop airframes.

 

[IND151]

So Is LCA. Hence Negate the rest of your rants. Please proof with something concrete that shows PAK DOES NOT DESIGN JF-17? and pray tell us who said that china manufacture and sell JF-17?

In Case of SU-30, indian materials are used to build things. Most of the things still come in kits or else HAL wouldn't be asking for Russian help if India were building everything in house !

And regarding night sorties of JF-17, PAF hasn't disclosed it's night sortie operational deployment. When they do, I will happily tag you there.

And damn the funds and the civilian government, PAC would have achieved the capability of building airframe if Zardari Gov has funded it properly. Even we had to procure chinese loan to keep production of JF-17 afloat. Acquiring additional capabilities were put on hold until government released funds. 2008-2013. That's been 5-6 years PAC been running thin on funds from GOV

Let me ask for last time.

Give credible source stating that PAC designed Jf-17 just how ADA designed Tejas.

My limited understanding suggests otherwise.

 

[Bratva]

Let me ask for last time.

Give credible source stating that PAC designed Jf-17 just how ADA designed Tejas.

My limited understanding suggests otherwise.

Sir Jee, we are mature audience right, ? So I would say JF-17 project director in Jan/FEB issue of Air international has given detailed answer about Pakistani involvement in designing JF-17 from scratch. So Read the interview which is in JF-17 info pool thread. Thank you

 

[volatile]

TEJAS -
150KM A2A ELTA 2032 HYBRID CAPABLE RADAR (RADOME COMPOSITES ACTING AS BLOCKER, WILL BE REPLACED BY QUARTZ DOME)
HMDS
FLIR
INTERNAL EW
COMPOSITE STRUCTURE (GREATER STEALTH,LIGHTER)
LOWER RCS (1/3 OF MIRAGE 2000H)
FULL DIGITAL QUADRUPLEX ALL AXIS FCS
INDIGENOUS GLASS COCKPIT DISPLAY
THRUST TO WEIGHT RATIO 1.07
WING LOADING 50 LB/SQFT (LOWER THE BETTER FOR LIFT)
CAPABLE OF FLYING AT MACH 1.1 AT SEA LEVEL WITH FULL LOAD
COST 27 MLN $
JF 17 -
ALUMINIUM BODY
NO HMDS
NO FLIR
120 KM RADAR 9ONLY BLK II)
NO INTERNAL EW
DIGITAL QUADRUPLEX FCS ONLY IN PITCH, ANALOG FOR ROLL AND YAW.


THRUST TO WEIGHT RATIO .95
WING LOADING 76 LB/SQFT (LOWER THE BETTER FOR LIFT)
COST 25 MLN $
Which is better?

JF-17 simply becasue it exists it has one block where as Teja is prototype end of story.

Let me ask for last time.
Give credible source stating that PAC designed Jf-17 just how ADA designed Tejas.
My limited understanding suggests otherwise.

Watch video in PAC website you will be CAD of JF-17 Block 3 in progress.

Sir Jee, we are mature audience right, ? So I would say JF-17 project director in Jan/FEB issue of Air international has given detailed answer about Pakistani involvement in designing JF-17 from scratch. So Read the interview which is in JF-17 info pool thread. Thank you

Thanks for making my life easy as i have to search google for all of that

Let me ask for last time.
Give credible source stating that PAC designed Jf-17 just how ADA designed Tejas.
My limited understanding suggests otherwise.

What basis you are threatening others .Go to Google and search your self Key board warrior