Featured Lawyer arrested for allegedly providing gun in slaying of blasphemy accused in Peshawar court

[Mugen]

Thankyou for compliments that come out of sheer frustration

Of course it does, to see my fellow Pakistanis being so backwards and incapable of using their brain, it certainly frustrates me.

 

[Mugen]

I am shocked that the American media hasn't covered the savage murder of Tahir Ahmad Naseem, the way they covered the murder of Otto Warmbier in North Korea.
In Pakistan if someone claims to be a prophet he is automatically accused of blasphemy (295-C) which is ridiculous. What about freedom of religion that is supposedly guaranteed in Pakistan's constitution? What about Pakistan being a signatory to the UN Human Rights Charter?
The Ahmadiyyah sect are persecuted in Pakistan the same way Jews were persecuted in Nazi Germany. The international community needs to do a lot more to address this horrific religious persecution of a peaceful Muslim sect. Pakistan has no right to criticize alleged human rights abuses and discrimination in any other country, including India, until they restore full religious and civil liberty to the Ahmadiyyah sect and scrap the intolerant blasphemy laws

I don't think that the Ahmadiyyah sect is persecuted to that extent but if we don't change course, we will become more extreme as a nation and then it might happen. I also don't think that the Ahmadiyyah can be considered Muslims as they do not adhere to a fundemental principle of Islam which is that prophet Mohammed was the last prophet.

 

[Cherub786]

I don't think that the Ahmadiyyah sect is persecuted to that extent but if we don't change course, we will become more extreme as a nation and then it might happen. I also don't think that the Ahmadiyyah can be considered Muslims as they do not adhere to a fundemental principle of Islam which is that prophet Mohammed was the last prophet.

The laws against Ahmadis in Pakistan, which began in the Zia regime, are quite similar to the Nuremberg laws of Germany under Hitler in the 1930s.

Whether the Ahmadiyyah are Muslim or not is totally irrelevant. How is it the business of the Pakistani State to determine who and who isn't a Muslim? The Zikri sect of Baluchistan don't believe in Namaz, the Second Pillar of Islam, are they declared a non-Muslim minority in the constitution?
And if Ahmadis aren't Muslim, what do you think of a large segment of Pakistani "Muslims" who believe in this:

These people in the video are true, orthodox Muslims according to the Constitution, but Ahmadis are non-Muslim, please give me a break

 

[Iltutmish]

Implement proper rule of law and law enforcement. This is the main problem in Pakistan! People don’t trust the government (and they shouldn’t trust a government too much even if they are trustworthy) and don’t get education. Killing random people is not an Islamic act especially when there is evidence that the defendant has mental issues.

But you cannot abolish mob mentality, this needs education and a government you can trust.

Qaddis cannot be accepted as Muslims and the government should treat them as non Muslim citizens like Christians and Hindus (this only means no PM or President title for them). And they should respect the fact that we don’t consider them Muslim, this would solve all the sectarian problems caused by this!

 

[Iltutmish]

The laws against Ahmadis in Pakistan, which began in the Zia regime, are quite similar to the Nuremberg laws of Germany under Hitler in the 1930s.

I think you don’t know what the Nuremberg laws were.

Whether the Ahmadiyyah are Muslim or not is totally irrelevant.

It is relevant for a state founded in the name of Islam!

How is it the business of the Pakistani State to determine who and who isn't a Muslim?

Islamic Republic of Pakistan should know its citizens.

The Zikri sect of Baluchistan don't believe in Namaz, the Second Pillar of Islam, are they declared a non-Muslim minority in the constitution?

If someone rejects one major pillar of Islam, how can he be considered Muslim? The Pakistani constitution doesn’t decide who is Muslim and who not. The facts speak for themselves. I am not a Japanese women even if I would claim that. Christians are non Muslims too. So?

These people in the video are true, orthodox Muslims according to the Constitution, but Ahmadis are non-Muslim, please give me a break

These people are a freak show and many Sufis in Pakistan have believes that contradict Islam. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

 

[Yaseen1]

these killings of blasphemers cannot be stopped no matter govt gives death punishment to killers as it will likely to make them more bigger hero in society,even western countries cannot stop such killings with all of their high technology and security setup as there are many such cases of killing blasphemers in europe so only way to stop them is that our courts punish those who commit blasphemy which will decrease probability of people taking law in their hand

 

[Cherub786]

The Pakistani constitution doesn’t decide who is Muslim and who not.

Read the 2nd Amendment, why are Ahmadis declared non-Muslim?
Also, read the definition of Muslim in the constitution, Article 260: "a person who believes in the unity and oneness of Almighty Allah, in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him), the last of the Prophets and does not believe in, or recognize as a prophet or religious reformer, any person who claimed or claims to be a prophet, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever, after Muhammad (peace be upon him)"
According to this problematic definition of Muslim, which is quite arbitrary and was obviously formulated simply to exclude Ahmadis from the definition of Muslim, anyone who rejects the other fundamental doctrines of Islam not mentioned in Article 260 is still a Muslim, such as someone who doesn't believe in the other Prophets, or in the Angels, or in the Resurrection, or in Heaven and Hell, or in the Holy Quran.
According to Article 260, a Muslim is anyone who believes in the Oneness of Allah and that Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم is the last Prophet. There is no mention of believing in other Prophets, the Quran, Angels, the Resurrection. There is no mention of the Five Pillars of Islam either. What an arbitrary and defective definition of "Muslim" according to the so-called Islamic Republic.

If you read the Munir Commission Report, it was recommended in the submissions that the State should avoid religious matters, because none of the Ulama and none of the sects of Islam can agree on a proper definition of Muslim. Each scholar that was consulted during the inquiry came up with a different definition of Muslim. Furthermore, major sects and their Ulama don't recognize each other as Muslim, for example, Sunnis don't recognize Shi'ah as Muslim and vice versa. Wahhabis don't recognize Barelawis as Muslim and vice versa.
There are sects of "Muslims" in Pakistan that have very strange beliefs, such as that Sayyidina Ali bin Abi Talib رضى الله عنه is divine, or that the text of the Quran has been changed, or that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is made from God's Light and isn't human, or that it is not necessary to follow the Shari'ah and the Five Pillars (belief of many Sufis and Isma'ilis), or that God is capable of lying (God forbid), or that the Twelve Imams are superior to the Prophets of God, or that the institution of Wilayah (sainthood) is higher than Nubuwwah (Prophesy), and so on and so forth.

So when Pakistani State decides to declare one sect (Ahmadis) non-Muslim, because of political pressure of Saudi Arabia, the Mullas, and Islamist political parties, they have opened a Pandora's Box where it will be demanded that sect xyz also be declared non-Muslim, and this chaos will never end.

 

[Iltutmish]

Read the 2nd Amendment, why are Ahmadis declared non-Muslim?

I meant that even if the Pakistani constitution does not specifically mention a group that has anti Islamic believes, this doesn’t mean that they are Muslim.

 

[macnurv]

When will Pakistanis ever learn that by doing such actions, we are ourselves undermining our laws. Pakistanis get so worked out about perceived insult to prophet yet as a nation exhibit every habit, every action prophet despised, but always ready to act like bunch of savages.
The accused must have been investigated, and dealt accordingly by law if found guilty.

Everyone involved in the planning and execution must be held accountable and sent to gallows for murder, the Pakistani lawyers are scum of scums.

 

[macnurv]

Read the 2nd Amendment, why are Ahmadis declared non-Muslim?
Also, read the definition of Muslim in the constitution, Article 260: "a person who believes in the unity and oneness of Almighty Allah, in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him), the last of the Prophets and does not believe in, or recognize as a prophet or religious reformer, any person who claimed or claims to be a prophet, in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever, after Muhammad (peace be upon him)"
According to this problematic definition of Muslim, which is quite arbitrary and was obviously formulated simply to exclude Ahmadis from the definition of Muslim, anyone who rejects the other fundamental doctrines of Islam not mentioned in Article 260 is still a Muslim, such as someone who doesn't believe in the other Prophets, or in the Angels, or in the Resurrection, or in Heaven and Hell, or in the Holy Quran.
According to Article 260, a Muslim is anyone who believes in the Oneness of Allah and that Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم is the last Prophet. There is no mention of believing in other Prophets, the Quran, Angels, the Resurrection. There is no mention of the Five Pillars of Islam either. What an arbitrary and defective definition of "Muslim" according to the so-called Islamic Republic.

If you read the Munir Commission Report, it was recommended in the submissions that the State should avoid religious matters, because none of the Ulama and none of the sects of Islam can agree on a proper definition of Muslim. Each scholar that was consulted during the inquiry came up with a different definition of Muslim. Furthermore, major sects and their Ulama don't recognize each other as Muslim, for example, Sunnis don't recognize Shi'ah as Muslim and vice versa. Wahhabis don't recognize Barelawis as Muslim and vice versa.
There are sects of "Muslims" in Pakistan that have very strange beliefs, such as that Sayyidina Ali bin Abi Talib رضى الله عنه is divine, or that the text of the Quran has been changed, or that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم is made from God's Light and isn't human, or that it is not necessary to follow the Shari'ah and the Five Pillars (belief of many Sufis and Isma'ilis), or that God is capable of lying (God forbid), or that the Twelve Imams are superior to the Prophets of God, or that the institution of Wilayah (sainthood) is higher than Nubuwwah (Prophesy), and so on and so forth.

So when Pakistani State decides to declare one sect (Ahmadis) non-Muslim, because of political pressure of Saudi Arabia, the Mullas, and Islamist political parties, they have opened a Pandora's Box where it will be demanded that sect xyz also be declared non-Muslim, and this chaos will never end.

When you allow these cancerous mullahs/ religious leaders define what is what, its bound to get messy. We as a nation not just satisfied by declaring them non-muslim, I have witnessed it so many times actively participating in making their lives difficult, from time to time trying to financially boycott Ahmedis. They are equal citizens of this country, their religious believes shouldnt be of any concern. All those who support such inhumane actions against my countrymen because of their religious beliefs shouldnt cry heaven and earth when muslims are maltreated. This door swing both ways.