Latest on IAF’s wish list: Long-range missiles

[koushik]

May be possible. Less range does not mean its bad. Different missile different ranges. But there are new missiles under development for USAF, for example a ramjet version like Meteor and Future Medium range AAM (FMRAAM).

brother.do u have any news about the new upgraded version of R-77 with more range which was showcased by ruskies.?

 

[jha]

The K-00 come with 2 different range one is 300km and IInd one 400km and about MTCR it did not apply on A2A mode

Correct..The second one is with rocket booster...

The Novator K-100 is a good choice but doesn't it have problem with accuracy at extended ranges against highly agile fighters? How about the Raytheon AIM-120D AMRAAM (130 miles range =209 km range) or even Meteor.Senior members help me.

METEOR is better option..Americans will never allow us to integrate their weapon on a russian Platform..While we will have a free hand with METEOR...

Astra has a range of 80 km and the new missile will surely have 120 km+ range, note the 'long range' while Astra is a medium range AAM. IAF is eying for Meteor or R-77M.

Last heard ASTRA-II will have a range of 100 km+ ... However work will start on a RAMJET version of ASTRA soon...

May be possible. Less range does not mean its bad. Different missile different ranges. But there are new missiles under development for USAF, for example a ramjet version like Meteor and Future Medium range AAM (FMRAAM).

Yes.. Best example is DERBY.. It does not have a very long range ( probably same as AIM-120c )..But is considered to be one of the most lethal BVRAAM as its seeker is probably the best in BVRAAM..

 

[koushik]

Correct..The second one is with rocket booster...



METEOR is better option..Americans will never allow us to integrate their weapon on a russian Platform..While we will have a free hand with METEOR...



Last heard ASTRA-II will have a range of 100 km+ ... However work will start on a RAMJET version of ASTRA soon...



Yes.. Best example is DERBY.. It does not have a very long range ( probably same as AIM-120c )..But is considered to be one of the most lethal BVRAAM as its seeker is probably the best in BVRAAM..

I read somewhere in an article about a new upgraded version of the R-77 BVRAAM with more range,an advanced seeker.can you provide me some info about this.

 

[Machoman]

You guys keep opening tenders and buying jack......wasting time of your and others. Quit making people stupid man at least buy something so people start thinking that you guys not full of $hit. first MRCA and now this......

 

[SpArK]

Just heard .. major deal of M777 howitzer guns is getting finalised...

 

[koushik]

You guys keep opening tenders and buying jack......wasting time of your and others. Quit making people stupid man at least buy something so people start thinking that you guys not full of $hit. first MRCA and now this......

wait till september 2011 winner of MMRCA will be announced.so your first doubt cleared and looking at your mindset you are getting tensed just on hearing about this RFI.god knows what will happen to you people when you'll see BVRAAMs like Meteor being fitted on IAF Su-30MKI.You will sweat in your pants."owner's pride is neighbour's envy"

 

[rajusri]

You guys keep opening tenders and buying jack......wasting time of your and others. Quit making people stupid man at least buy something so people start thinking that you guys not full of $hit. first MRCA and now this......

Than what you are?


Do not forget MRCA is $ 12 billion dollar! 12 billion. Its very big amount.

 

[Machoman]

Than what you are?


Do not forget MRCA is $ 12 billion dollar! 12 billion. Its very big amount.

Oh really mama, you think you are the only one who knows what is big amount? to you your first qustion. I am a proud Pakistani.

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 AM ----------

wait till september 2011 winner of MMRCA will be announced.so your first doubt cleared and looking at your mindset you are getting tensed just on hearing about this RFI.god knows what will happen to you people when you'll see BVRAAMs like Meteor being fitted on IAF Su-30MKI.You will sweat in your pants."owner's pride is neighbour's envy"

Dude wait till then wait till that, when you buy then speak other wise just just sssshhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[koushik]

Just heard .. major deal of M777 howitzer guns is getting finalised...

Hi spark.I am koushik .i am new here.Good to see that the IA Artillery Modernisation getting finally kickstarted.the M-777 is one hell of a howitzer.rugged,reliable and battle tested.it weighs about 2.75 tonnes which makes it transportable by helis and it can fire non-guided shells accurately between 27-35 km and the GPS Guided Excalibur Shell to 40+ km accurately with a small CEP.good move as this gun can be quickly shifted along the china border.

 

[rajusri]

Oh really mama,

?? I am your mama? I am a 28 years old guy.

you think you are the only one who knows what is big amount?

Yes we know because we have that much of money to buy weapons. Its a big deal. $ 12 billion.

to you your first qustion. I am a proud Pakistani.

really? than were not you talking about yourself?

Dude wait till then wait till that, when you buy then speak other wise just just sssshhhhhhhhhhh.

India was the largest importer of weapons in 2010!

 

[Machoman]

?? I am your mama? I am a 28 years old guy.


Yes we know because we have that much of money to buy weapons. Its a big deal. $ 12 billion.


really? than were not you talking about yourself?



India was the largest importer of weapons in 2010!

Long story short, you guys have to wait and see, currently you guys nothing. and yes when you talk like Mama then age does not matter madam Jee.

 

[kingkobra]

You guys keep opening tenders and buying jack......wasting time of your and others. Quit making people stupid man at least buy something so people start thinking that you guys not full of $hit. first MRCA and now this......

its matter of more than 10 billion dollars mate...nearly your entire FOREX reserves....so anyone will "waste" their time in tenders..

 

[rcrmj]

Astra has a range of 80 km and the new missile will surely have 120 km+ range, note the 'long range' while Astra is a medium range AAM. IAF is eying for Meteor or R-77M.

I think one thing needs to clarify about AAM missiles' maximum range is that there are 3 kinds of maximum ranges

1. the maximum dynamic flight range which includes the glide range
2. the maximum flight range by motor
3. the classic max engage range (with all favorable conditions, height, speed, etc``)

the first one tends to have the longest range but the stats is usless in real combat situation and it is just a fair judgment on missile's areodynamics.

the second one which is mostly quoted by manufactures as the attribute. at the moment none of any warharden AAM missile has over 100km ranges (including ramjet) down to this category.

and the 3nd range that matters the most in real combat situation. called none escaptable zoon or classic engagement range!

for example; in the best senario of F-22 carrying AIM-120 at optimum high altitude and speed of 1.8M, when the opponent heading directly with speed of 1.2M the maximum engage range of AIM-120 is just over 50KM! which means when the target steps in 49KM then its death zoon! (thats one of the reasons that manueverbility is still the key factor to 5gen stealth craft, because no matter what advanced weapon u carry, if u couldnt manuever to the favorable missle launch position and speed faster than ur opponent does, you are likely to lose)

but of couse in that senario F-22 can fire missile beyond 49 KM but the killing ratio will drop dramaticly! few high Gs can easily escape the hit!

so what IAF considering is not to buy the missile has the 'highest' range, but the one has the longest 'classic engagement range' plus superior capability to deal with jams```in this case, russians are really out the picture`! and in the future ramjet engine is going to play the key roles in future MAAM`as it seems everyone is developing it``

 

[koushik]

I think one thing needs to clarify about AAM missiles' maximum range is that there are 3 kinds of maximum ranges

1. the maximum dynamic flight range which includes the glide range
2. the maximum flight range by motor
3. the classic max engage range (with all favorable conditions, height, speed, etc``)

the first one tends to have the longest range but the stats is usless in real combat situation and it is just a fair judgment on missile's areodynamics.

the second one which is mostly quoted by manufactures as the attribute. at the moment none of any warharden AAM missile has over 100km ranges (including ramjet) down to this category.

and the 3nd range that matters the most in real combat situation. called none escaptable zoon or classic engagement range!

for example; in the best senario of F-22 carrying AIM-120 at optimum high altitude and speed of 1.8M, when the opponent heading directly with speed of 1.2M the maximum engage range of AIM-120 is just over 50KM! which means when the target steps in 49KM then its death zoon! (thats one of the reasons that manueverbility is still the key factor to 5gen stealth craft, because no matter what advanced weapon u carry, if u couldnt manuever to the favorable missle launch position and speed faster than ur opponent does, you are likely to lose)

but of couse in that senario F-22 can fire missile beyond 49 KM but the killing ratio will drop dramaticly! few high Gs can easily escape the hit!

so what IAF considering is not to buy the missile has the 'highest' range, but the one has the longest 'classic engagement range' plus superior capability to deal with jams```in this case, russians are really out the picture`! and in the future ramjet engine is going to play the key roles in future MAAM`as it seems everyone is developing it``

thanks for the info but i am all out for the MBDA Meteor.one hell of a weapon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBDA_Meteor.
http://typhoon.starstreak.net/common/AA/bvraam.html

 

[sancho]

May be possible. Less range does not mean its bad. Different missile different ranges. But there are new missiles under development for USAF, for example a ramjet version like Meteor and Future Medium range AAM (FMRAAM).

That's the point, because these missiles will not be fired at maximum range, because that would give much time for the target to react with countermesures. Like your video shows as well, the most important advantage of it is:

Largest No Escape Zone of any air-to-air weapon resulting in a long stand-off range and high kill probability to ensure air superiority and pilot survivability;

Meteor missiles, missiles, air defence system developped by MBDA


METEOR will not only use the propulsion to accelerate at the start and will get slower later, but will maintain the high speed till the end. That leaves the target with a small no escape zone and gives a high kill probability.
However, I highly doubt that IAF will select METEOR for MKI, or that it will be available for it, because you have to integrate the missile into the fighter and it's radar. Unless we can do it in India, with the neccesary source codes, I doubt that either Russia will alow the Europeans to get such an insight in their radar techs, nor that the Europeans will allow the Russians to get METEOR techs in their hand. Besides that, METEOR is a very costly weapon, especially at the begining, which means it would be freaking costly to equip up to 270 MKIs with it (if a European fighter wins MMRCA, they will get it anyway).
IAF has selected Astra for the MKI and as a cost-effective and more reliable alternative to Russian missiles, that still gives us the possibility to use the latest R77 versions as well, if they are more capable, but METEOR is not very likely. The problem now is, how capable is Astra? The 80Km range was the aim, but was it achieved and what about the designchanges we saw during Aero India? All the talk about Astra 2 with Ram jet propulsion is useless, when not even the first version is ready and proven. We have a tendency to take the 2nd step, before we have finished the 1st ( LCA / AMCA, MMR / AESA, Arjun Mk1 / Arjun MK2, Rustom UAV / AURA UCAV...).