Knee-jerk reaction by Imran Khan on Dera Ismail Khan Jailbreak

[Leader]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ice-foil-terror-bid-d-i-khan.html#post4626868

 

[Plato]

Xeric:

I am not sure if you really understand what is the difference in an APC and forming a policy on terrorism. ( perhaps this concept is too hard to understand by a swollen brain like yours). APC is a dead horse which has no worth, has been convened 3 times in the past and its unanimous resolutions are already in dustbin. If any one is interested he can pull those out and read them. That is very reason why IK is against it.

KPK does not have an ordinary law and order situation it is an insurgency and needs to be tackled accordingly and it is NOT police's job. Come out of this delusion that it is police only......Army has to play its role and this needs to be coordinated btween fed,provincial govts and army leadership. Army is raised on tax payer's money and if their services are needed they have to do it.

3. How can PTI form a policy about terrorism that is emanating from FATA which is under Fed govt and army's control unilaterally? Blaming PTI is one thing and being rational is another.

4.
I asked you what KPK CM should do it and you started praising Kayani for going to forward lines. Kiyani is chief of a force and in KPK, IGP is the chief of police force and he was aware of this and had expressed satisfaction. If you could only suggest what you have written and think that attackers could have been dealt with amicably and I feel sorry for you?? I will only say ...Grow up kid!!!!!!!


5. PTI is working on police reforms but I do not have figures on the funds. These are not overnight reforms and will take time.

6. What Pervaiz Khattak has learnt from this episode is that Police and Army have no coordination whatsoever. He has spoken to GOC XI Corps and IGP and very soon we will see this thing rectified. In my humble view this disaster could only be prevented if the systemic flaws in our SOPs were no there which unfortunately are still there after 10 years of war and I can only hope that now all of us have learnt something form the is episode and it doe snot happen again.

 

[Xeric]

Xeric:

I am not sure if you really understand what is the difference in an APC and forming a policy on terrorism. ( perhaps this concept is too hard to understand by a swollen brain like yours). APC is a dead horse which has no worth, has been convened 3 times in the past and its unanimous resolutions are already in dustbin. If any one is interested he can pull those out and read them. That is very reason why IK is against it.

Yeah, why would i know what an APC vis-a-vis policy on terrorism is? After all i have been told to grow up by the great Plato himself!

Forming a "common" policy on terrorism cannot just began at itself. You yourself has said that the policy should be made at the federal level, so i ask you, how would that be done without taking all the stake holders on board? What's the platform where the stakeholders could be war-gamed to form this policy? The stake holders not only include the Army, Police or FC, but all the political parties who may or may not be in power. How can the federal govt form a policy having Nation-wide effects without consulting everybody? And hence, APC has to be a start.

Now just because, previous resolutions were in the dustbin and so should be this one, puts yours and IK's wisdom to question.

Lastly, the resolutions passed in the previous APCs are in the dustbin not because the platform of APC was bad, but because those who had to implement the decisions were bad. Let's see if IK/PTI could change that, after all he/it would be a major stake holder, being running a frontline province in terrorism scenario.

Bringing the system to a halt by boycotting the APC is not the way forward, listening to others and putting your point across is.

See what have we gained when IK opposed the APC, we are exactly where we stood before. An APC could have changed that, but no, Khan baba just wont do it, nor would he do anything else other than pointing fingers at others. Shame!

KPK does not have an ordinary law and order situation it is an insurgency and needs to be tackled accordingly and it is NOT police's job. Come out of this delusion that it is police only......Army has to play its role and this needs to be coordinated btween fed,provincial govts and army leadership. Army is raised on tax payer's money and if their services are needed they have to do it.

Right!

Last time i checked, countries were contesting terrorism inside their cities through their Police, not the National Guards or Special Forces.

Now, if you agree that it is not Police's job, then why not handover KPK to the Army. IK can go back to playing cricket then, no?

Janab, he has to do something about it.

Army is providing its services whenever and wherever required. Army went into negotiations when the govt told it so and it went on an offensive when the govt asked it to. So dont feed me BS!

3. How can PTI form a policy about terrorism that is emanating from FATA which is under Fed govt and army's control unilaterally? Blaming PTI is one thing and being rational is another.

FATA is being engaged at the Fed level by the Army, PTI need to think and do something about its own domain i.e. remainder of KPK. Army's failure (which itself s due to lack of a collective policy on subject) is another thing, protecting installations inside the mainland by PTI govt is another. Ofcourse, they both have linkages, but KPK govt cant say that as FAT is beyond their control so they wont do anything to protect themselves.

And attack on DI Khan jail was imminent, but what did the govt/bureaucracy of KPK did to prevent or thereafter resist is the real question that begs and answer from govt of KPK.

4.
I asked you what KPK CM should do it and you started praising Kayani for going to forward lines. Kiyani is chief of a force and in KPK, IGP is the chief of police force and he was aware of this and had expressed satisfaction. If you could only suggest what you have written and think that attackers could have been dealt with amicably and I feel sorry for you?? I will only say ...Grow up kid!!!!!!!

i have you a number of option, now if your brain cant comprehend them, it aint my fault, uncle!

5. PTI is working on police reforms but I do not have figures on the funds.

Guud for them. And that's what i have suggested in by blog.

These are not overnight reforms and will take time.

Agreed.

But there is a thing known as a crash course, we require that from PTI as it was thought to be better than their predecessors. If not, they are the same.

6. What Pervaiz Khattak has learnt from this episode is that Police and Army have no coordination whatsoever. He has spoken to GOC XI Corps and IGP and very soon we will see this thing rectified. In my humble view this disaster could only be prevented if the systemic flaws in our SOPs were no there which unfortunately are still there after 10 years of war and I can only hope that now all of us have learnt something form the is episode and it doe snot happen again.

That's exactly what my writeup was about, but i think you missed it

But the question still remains, who is going to do the coordination, or to be precis, who is going to make the commanders to cord among themselves? The COAS at his own? Perhaps the IGPs should take the initiative? Or may be the SHOs should form up a union?

No!

It's the political leadership that has to do it and takes steps towards it, boycotting the APC, blame gaming and pointing fingers not being one of them.

 

[BATMAN]

Imran Khan and CM KPK are not going to guard the prisoners and check posts with G3s and AK 47s . its the job of our security forces

instead of just sitting back and sulking over lack of policy or direction from Government, the leadership of our security forces (civil / military) should take the initiative and present its case and recommendations to the political leadership.

if police and army will continue passing responsibility and cant contain talian and cant confront them then say it out loud so that we stop wasting money on them and prepare conditions of surrender to taliban.

bloody jobsworth .. they will eat 100 onions and get slapped 100 times as well in the end.

There is already a case of murder going on in courts against Pervez Musharraf, where he is blamed for murdering Bugti and Red Mosque guardians.

Media and members of PTI and its leaders have repeatedly held Pervez Musharraf guilty for the above two murders, only because he was head of state.

Now Imran Khan is head of PTI and NWFP is ruled by PTI, therefore he shall not act as munafiq, he shall take responsibility and resign.

FYI, all army heads are always hand picked by the political leadership... they have little chance to speak upto the politicians, supported by media and mob.
Police is busy serving the politicians and doing protocols.

In any case, if you do the detailed analysis.. you will come to know that all security is over loaded... working 20 hours daily, with not even right vehicles and gear. They are sitting ducks in night and pickup trucks.

Best option would be to privatize police.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ice-foil-terror-bid-d-i-khan.html#post4626868

It was not police it was police with support of army.

Come back when police would do any job without army... and PTI shall thank army for extending support to PTI govt. without asking.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Wherever High value prisoners are being held I do think it should be the military's job to assume charge of 'prison duties' not limited to just having presence around perimeters and being watchman day and night.

Bannu and DI Khan is enough to convince me of that. The nation is, after all, at war.

On a federal level there seems to be too much politicking and there is still no real solid anti terrorism policy. How can you when so called pillars of the state (media, judiciary and executive) are never on the same page

That's just recipe for further disasters.

Hassan Abbas did a study on police reform in the country and i actually agree with a good chunk of the findings

 

[Plato]

Last time i checked, countries were contesting terrorism inside their cities through their Police, not the National Guards or Special Forces.

I will simply ask to you to recheck your sources and compare apples to apples instead of just looking for word"terrorism"
If you think it is an isolated act of terrorism by a few disgruntled anti state elements can be dealt by existing police force easily please, you are clearly mistaken. Our current police is easy fodder and and in present situation we need a much more resourceful organization likely army to be part of this campaign at multiple levels. The most pathetic part of this whole situation is that it is going on for 10 years and neither police, amry or any previous govt has formed any coordination body.

The resolutions passed in the previous APCs are in the dustbin not because the platform of APC was bad, but because those who had to implement the decisions were bad. Let's see if IK/PTI could change that, after all he/it would be a major stake holder, being running a frontline province in terrorism scenario.

That is my point!!!!! Every one already knows what what will be the result of this APC and there is nothing new coming out of it. But the downside of this APC is that on this forum you cannot discuss sensitive information based on which you have to take specific steps. IK/PTI has to know some of this sensitive info before presenting a policy and going to APC merely a wastage of time. In any case if govt thinks it is of prime importance to convene an APC they should go ahead and do its part and then blame PTI of not being part of it. Why they are not convening it without PTI if it is so important and if they think PTI's presence is vital they should accept IK's demand for a meeting between PM, COAS and DG ISI.

And regarding what steps should CM KPK had taken; well as a starter, he could have instructed to form a joint task force upon receiving such an accurate information from the int agencies.
Two, he could have called up the Police thaikedars and gave them a bambozal to pull up their socks and behave like uniforms, instead if enjoying their ACed offices.
Three, he could have asked someone to boost the morale of the ever demoralizing Police force. A visit by him, his rep or he telling the Police leadership to pay regular visits to their men could have achieved this.

I would leave it to the judgement of readers of this forum how these "critical" actions could prevent DI khan jail break!!!!!!!!


That's exactly what my write up was about, but i think you missed it

Not really!! Your write up was primarily hitting PTI for failing to prevent something that was destined to happen due to multi level failure of our LEAs including armed forces and previous political govts. The article was heavily tilted against PTI and put all the blame on it for not forming a policy on counter terrorism while totally ignoring the role of fed govt, its criminal lack of interest in KPK and its affairs ( till today PM or interior minister has not visited KPK even once despite all the acts of terrorism what to talk of any policy).

 

[BATMAN]

Wherever High value prisoners are being held I do think it should be the military's job to assume charge of 'prison duties' not limited to just having presence around perimeters and being watchman day and night.

Bannu and DI Khan is enough to convince me of that. The nation is, after all, at war.

On a federal level there seems to be too much politicking and there is still no real solid anti terrorism policy. How can you when so called pillars of the state (media, judiciary and executive) are never on the same page

That's just recipe for further disasters.

Hassan Abbas did a study on police reform in the country and i actually agree with a good chunk of the findings

Army shall never take care of any thing beyond borders. It hurt the state of preparedness and cost of mobilization is enormous.
Actually, this is what enemies of Pakistan want... to lure your army out of their formations and kill them one by one.
It shall always be internal security agencies, who shall be responsible for jail.
How ever, we can address the pathetic state of affairs in 2 ways.
1- By appointing an army officer as in charge of police, like IG rangers.
2- By retiring soldiers from army at early age and pushing them to police.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So far PTI has been failure and i supported them! It would have been better if ANP won even if they have anti-Pakistan past. At least they dont run away when it comes to terrorism, they know terrorism is destroying KPK and Pakistan with it.

i wont take sides here, but ANP was so corrupt that they are very much responsible for the breakdown of law & order in the province; they took no bold steps either

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Malik Ishaq who has over 100 shia murders under his name has class A treatment in Punjab Jails enjoying all the perks with full communication to outside world ordering regular executions of shia targets in a year.

Kayani gave him a helicopter to ride into GHQ to "negotiate with the TTP" when the terrorists made a "new one " into the pride of our army during their GHQ attack

the man should be in solitary confinement with no windows to the outside world

 

[Lalashersingh]

looks like to me half of army supports the Taliban

 

[Plato]

Pleas read Salim Safi's column in today's Jang. I cannot paste the link because I have to have 25 posts in order to be eligible for this privilege.