What's new

King Abdullah of Jordan warns of “massive conflict” if Israel proceeds with annexation

I will try again. Which scholarly work anywhere on the planet talks about an "Indian ethnicity" as you claimed? Is it a lie when I correctly state that India (the modern-day 73 year old entity) is one of the most ethnically, racially and linguistically diverse areas of the planet home to literally 100's of distinct ethnic groups?

The difference between say an Indian from Tamil Nadu and an Indian from Rajahstan is far greater than any difference in the Middle East, let alone the Arab world. Or the Mongoloid Northeastern provinces of India. India, in terms of ethnic and linguistic diversity, is a continent of its own. There is no similarly between Pakistan, which is composed of 4 main native ethnic groups, Bangladesh (1 main ethnic group = Bengalis), Nepalis or Sri Lankans (Sinhalese, Tamils and the Moors who claim Arab ancestry and supposedly are a mixture of Arab merchants/settlers and Tamils).

Muslims of Northern India are not a unified or even an ethnic group. They are a cultural/religious group. Hence your talk about culture and cuisine (lol). Those people belonged to a huge variety of ethnic groups etc. before they adopted the Muslim identity. Later they adopted Urdu/Hindi which is also heavily influenced by foreign tongues not native to Northern India that I already explained.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

From what I have read about this topic and my interaction with Pakistanis and Indians, there is no such thing as an "Urdu ethnicity" as @Naofumi is falsely claiming. For instance after speaking with some Pakistani users about this topic, in connection to another topic about Arabs in Deccan, Gujarat and Hyderabad etc., I was told by them that the Urdu-speaking Mohajirs of Pakistan have a very varied origin. Spanning from the Deccan, Bihar and many other areas of India. By no means where they ever an "ethnic group", more of a Muslim community that spoke/adopted Urdu.

I would appreciate if you could elaborate on that and explain why this individual is trying to turn Punjabis and Sindhis into "Indians".

You continue your drivel while posting maps of entire language families as your only counter? Is that all you got as a reply to my post above?

How abut you counter what I wrote instead of posting maps of entire freaking language families? I repeat, which every scholarly work on this topic confirms as well, there is no such thing as an "Indian ethnicity". Never was and never will be. It is a modern 73 year old nationality. There are 100's of vastly different ethnic and linguistic groups in India and in terms of diversity India is comparable to Sub-Saharan Africa.


North Indian Muslims, mostly low caste Hindu converts to Islam in the past 5 centuries (since the time of the Mughal empire) do not constitute an ethnic group and never did. Them adopting Urdu, in many ways a foreign language, does not turn them into some non-existing "Urdu" ethnicity. Urdu is a recent constructed language.

They are a cultural and religious group (Indian Muslims - even though Indian Muslims are as diverse as Hindu Indians - Muslims of Hyderabad and Bihar are very different people ethnically and racially), no doubt about that, but an ethnic group they are not!

My last post about this topic. You can continue posting maps of entire language families (LOL) and talk about some shared cuisine.

Next you will claim that English speaking Jamaicans who eat English Breakfast are the same as English speaking Brits who eat their English breakfast.:lol:


Hindus of every caste use it uniformly too in that orange region. Or ask Saudi university.

Why don't you prove this?

Speaking about universities, you would probably struggle to find even a single university in India that claims that a non-existent "Indian" ethnicity exists or ever existed, lol. Let alone universities from across the world. That is all that matters.
 
.
If you are interested in a constructive engagement, perhaps do not come first making accusation of me having "Iranian agenda" and so on. Sadly you appear to have a history of such behaviour.

We can still have a constructive discussion even if you pro-Iran. So it's up to you, but I don't see how region can come up with united response to this considering the region is engulfed in conflicts between three major players.
 
.
We can still have a constructive discussion even if you pro-Iran. So it's up to you, but I don't see how region can come up with united response to this considering the region is engulfed in conflicts between three major players.
So Hazzy, tell us. If you favour dialogue among Iran,Turk,Arabs or whatever group, even aliens. Why still such a hostile approach ?

You can't have a proper dialogue with someone if you almost want to blow them up, no ?
 
.
Next you will claim that English speaking Jamaicans who eat English Breakfast are the same as English speaking Brits who eat their English breakfast.:lol:
D2iSpAiU0AAZ2Bv.png


http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml

R1a correlates with Indo-Aryan languages, is that enough for you?
 
.
So Hazzy, tell us. If you favour dialogue among Iran,Turk,Arabs or whatever group, even aliens. Why still such a hostile approach ?

Who told you I wanted dialogue? I don't believe in dialogue, I believe people of region should submit to God and obey him. I don't follow this - ignore the Creator - mentality/lifestyle that a lot of people in world seem to go by.
 
.
We can still have a constructive discussion even if you pro-Iran. So it's up to you, but I don't see how region can come up with united response to this considering the region is engulfed in conflicts between three major players.

Actually, if you focus on my comments in this forum you'll notice I try to be as objective as I can. There will naturally be some element of pro-Iran, sure, but I certainly would not respect a fixed perspective on topics. If you see me being blindly pro-Iran, then feel free to highlight this as I would not be favouring such a thing.

With regards to this Israel-Jordan situation, my personal hope is despite the differences that exist in the region, there will indeed be a unified response against Israel. The degree of that response will naturally depend on the provocation of Israel. Should this annexation go through, I will expect to see unity in the region against this.
 
.
This is your perspective as you are a weak person who is mind controlled by them. Not everything revolves around Israeli's. You give them way too much credit and you downplay other bad actors in region and support corruption.

I suppose its part of your nature, to pull it out would be to deny you your existence.

Israel is not an exagerated threat, Israel' represents zionism which cannot be viewed as being only about palestine, its policy is to subjugate the entire middle east with gradual bastardization and dilution of its culture, identity and heritage.

But ofcourse, Israel is the gulfs supposed ally against Iran, so who cares about that dagger they are holding behind their back.

Naive primates.
 
.
Speaking about universities, you would probably struggle to find even a single university in India that claims that a non-existent "Indian" ethnicity exists or ever existed, lol. Let alone universities from across the world. That is all that matters.
Lol, where you searched?
Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/b6bc9ac2-3e5b-11e9-9bee-efab61506f44

The 19th-century popularised the idea of the “nation state”. The 21st could be the century of the “civilisation state”.A civilisation state is a country that claims to represent not just a historic territory or a particular language or ethnic-group, but a distinctive civilisation. It is an idea that is gaining ground in states as diverse as China, India, Russia, Turkey and, even, the US. The notion of the civilisation state has distinctly illiberal implications. It implies that attempts to define universal human rights or common democratic standards are wrong-headed, since each civilisation needs political institutions that reflect its own unique culture. The idea of a civilisation state is also exclusive. Minority groups and migrants may never fit in because they are not part of the core civilisation.One reason that the idea of the civilisation state is likely to gain wider currency is the rise of China. In speeches to foreign audiences, President Xi Jinping likes to stress the unique history and civilisation of China. This idea has been promoted by pro-government intellectuals, such as Zhang Weiwei of Fudan university. In an influential book, The China Wave: Rise of a Civilisational State, Mr Zhang argues that modern China has succeeded because it has turned its back on western political ideas — and instead pursued a model rooted in its own Confucian culture and exam-based meritocratic traditions. Mr Zhang was adapting an idea first elaborated by Martin Jacques, a western writer, in a bestselling book, When China Rules The World. “China’s history of being a nation state”, Mr Jacques argues, “dates back only 120-150 years: its civilisational history dates back thousands of years.” He believes that the distinct character of Chinese civilisation leads to social and political norms that are very different from those prevalent in the west, including “the idea that the state should be based on familial relations [and] a very different view of the relationship between the individual and society, with the latter regarded as much more important”.Like China, India has a population of well over 1bn people. Theorists for the ruling Bharatiya Janata party are attracted to the idea that India is more than a mere nation — and is, instead, a distinct civilisation. For the BJP, the single most distinctive feature of Indian civilisation is the Hindu religion — a notion that implicitly relegates Indian Muslims to a second tier of citizenship. Jayant Sinha, a minister in Narendra Modi’s government, argues that modern India’s founding fathers, such as Jawaharlal Nehru, mistakenly embraced western ideas such as scientific socialism, believing them to have universal applicability. Instead they should have based India’s post-colonial governance system on its own unique culture. As a former McKinsey consultant with a Harvard MBA, Mr Sinha might look like the archetypal bearer of “globalist” values. But when I met him in Delhi last year, he was preaching cultural particularism, arguing that “in our view, heritage precedes the state . . . People feel their heritage is under siege. We have a faith-based view of the world versus the rational-scientific view.”Civilisational views of the state are also gaining ground in Russia. Some of the ideologues around Vladimir Putin now embrace the idea that Russia represents a distinct Eurasian civilisation, which should never have sought to integrate with the west. In a recent article Vladislav Surkov, a close adviser to the Russian president, argued that his country’s “repeated fruitless efforts to become a part of western civilisation are finally over”. Instead, Russia should embrace its identity as “a civilisation that has absorbed both east and west” with a “hybrid mentality, intercontinental territory and bipolar history. It is charismatic, talented, beautiful and lonely. Just as a half-breed should be.”In a global system moulded by the west, it is unsurprising that some intellectuals in countries such as China, India or Russia should want to stress the distinctiveness of their own civilisations. What is more surprising is that rightwing thinkers in the US are also retreating from the idea of “universal values” — in favour of emphasising the unique and allegedly endangered nature of western civilisation. Steve Bannon, who was briefly chief strategist in the Trump White House, has argued repeatedly that mass migration and the decline of traditional Christian values are undermining western civilisation. In an attempt to arrest this decline, Mr Bannon is helping to establish an “academy for the Judeo-Christian west” in Italy, designed to train a new generation of leaders. The Bannonite argument that mass migration is undermining traditional American values is central to Donald Trump’s ideology. In a speech in Warsaw in 2017, the US president declared that the “fundamental question of our time is whether the west has the will to survive”, before reassuring his audience that “our civilisation will triumph”.But, oddly enough, Mr Trump’s embrace of a “civilisational” view of the world may actually be a symptom of the decline of the west. His predecessors confidently proclaimed that American values were “universal” and were destined to triumph across the world. And it was the global power of western ideas that has made the nation-state the international norm for political organisation. The rise of Asian powers such as China and India may create new models: step forward, the “civilisation state”.
 
.
Actually, if you focus on my comments in this forum you'll notice I try to be as objective as I can. There will naturally be some element of pro-Iran, sure, but I certainly would not respect a fixed perspective on topics. If you see me being blindly pro-Iran, then feel free to highlight this as I would not be favouring such a thing.

With regards to this Israel-Jordan situation, my personal hope is despite the differences that exist in the region, there will indeed be a unified response against Israel. The degree of that response will naturally depend on the provocation of Israel. Should this annexation go through, I will expect to see unity in the region against this.

Well we need to talk specifics, what can people of region actually do? Will Egypt and Jordan annul peace accords with Israel? Will the PA dissolve itself? Will people of region declare ceasefires in all conflict ridden zones? Why should people care for the Palestinians? Are Palestinians a special people? You think anyone will want to take risks for the Palestinians? Do actually believe anyone sincerely cares about the Palestinians? What does it mean to 'care for Palestinians'?

It's not possible to love humans so much to want to risk ones interests for them. It is possible to love God and want to risk our interests for him.
 
.
Actually, if you focus on my comments in this forum you'll notice I try to be as objective as I can. There will naturally be some element of pro-Iran, sure, but I certainly would not respect a fixed perspective on topics. If you see me being blindly pro-Iran, then feel free to highlight this as I would not be favouring such a thing.

With regards to this Israel-Jordan situation, my personal hope is despite the differences that exist in the region, there will indeed be a unified response against Israel. The degree of that response will naturally depend on the provocation of Israel. Should this annexation go through, I will expect to see unity in the region against this.
A large number of Iranian users on PDF (or anywhere else) are rational and polite people. Just a while ago we were talking to @ArabianEmpires&Caliphates and what steps we can take to reduce the tensions between iranians and arabs (atleast the ones on this forum, average iranian or arab dont give a crap). Just today i opened this website and i see all the racism and rubbish rants all over again, its like its automated into ones brains, like they can't stay away from hostility.

Honestly, won't bother with such mentality in the future anymore nor going to respond to it if the other side keeps going back to hostilities.

Who told you I wanted dialogue? I don't believe in dialogue, I believe people of region should submit to God and obey him. I don't follow this - ignore the Creator - mentality/lifestyle that a lot of people in world seem to go by.
What do you mean you dont believe in dialogue ? How the hell can someone even think like this?
 
.
I suppose its part of your nature, to pull it out would be to deny you your existence.

Israel is not an exagerated threat, Israel' represents zionism which cannot be viewed as being only about palestine, its policy is to subjugate the entire middle east with gradual bastardization and dilution of its culture, identity and heritage.

But ofcourse, Israel is the gulfs supposed ally against Iran, so who cares about that dagger they are holding behind their back.

Naive primates.

You're not deceiving anyone, no one actually believes you care or feel worried about Israel. All you care for demonizing Gulf Arabs and starting revolutions there for Iran to gain influence. Don't bother next time.

What do you mean you dont believe in dialogue ? How the hell can someone even think like this?

Are you trying to have dialogue with your Creator? Do you have a dispute with God?
 
.
Sure. Whatever you say. I didn't know we're using the term Arab for every Middle Eastern civilisation now. Next you'll be claiming Gobekli Tepe and Luxor as Arab too.



Wait no. Not Gobekli Tepe. God no! That's Turkish. Enemy numero dos of the Arabs. No no that is unacceptable. Baathism died in the 70s. Please update yoursel.
This is what happens when you are left without any academic replies after having been exposed due to your ignorant writings for all to see. You couture up some made up drivel (2 lines) as a counter that I never wrote to somehow give your lies "legitimacy". Read again what I wrote about that time period and how that time period predates all existing ethnic groups and how only modern-day Arabs native to those lands can claim those ancient NATIVE civilizations to our lands. It is very simple. If you do not understand this simple premise, you should follow suit and refuse to claim the IVC going by your logic.

I have studied the history of the Arab world and that of the Middle East for 10 + years and probably read 100 + books/scholarly papers about the subjects related to what we are discussing currently. I have created 10's of threads on PDF as well dealing with many related topics.

So, excuse me if I don't take such discussions with obviously completely clueless counterparts seriously. I suggest sticking to whatever drivel you were writing before I countered it, just pray and hope that you won't be ridiculed in professional settings or even in serious online discussions.

Funny how that Indian @Naofumi troll, after being schooled intellectually throughout this debate, is thanking all the posts of my opponents no matter how idiotic they are.:lol: Talk about a complex.


Frankly my dear I couldn't give a damn. I don't have the time to school you on history. IVC is as native as it gets to South Asia. You want to believe otherwise, you're free to do so.
 
.
Well we need to talk specifics, what can people of region actually do? Will Egypt and Jordan annul peace accords with Israel? Will the PA dissolve itself? Will people of region declare ceasefires in all conflict ridden zones? Why should people care for the Palestinians? Are Palestinians a special people? You think anyone will want to take risks for the Palestinians? Do actually believe anyone sincerely cares about the Palestinians? What does it mean to 'care for Palestinians'?

It's not possible to love humans so much to want to risk ones interests for them. It is possible to love God and want to risk our interests for him.

A unified focus and effort against Israel is something the Israeli fear the most. Looking at this in terms of strategy, they would like nothing more than to cause a perpetual chaos in the region where everyone else is focused on each except the Israelis. As for why care about Palestinians, if we deliberately do nothing for the suffering of others, especially in a large example of Palestine, then can we claim to be god loving? If you ignore the the suffering of Allah's creations, then how would you even have the cheek to try and claim to be anything close to decent come judgement day?

The Apartheid ,ghettoisation and cultural genocide of Palestinians is the responsibility of all in the region to fight against. I have no doubt that should the Israelis go to this next step, you will see a unified effort against them. If it does happen, it will happen soon, and you will see what I mean. In terms of what we can do, there are many military means of turning up the heat against the Israelis.
 
.
View attachment 634172

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml

R1a correlates with Indo-Aryan languages, is that enough for you?

What has a map from Eupedia (hardly scholarly work) of a 25.000 year old Y-DNA haplogroup to do with anything that I wrote? Do you know the historical order of Y-DNA haplogroups? Do you know anything about human migrations? For instance did you know that all of modern-day India/South Asia was first inhabited by people who lived in Arabia prior to the migration? Does that mean that Indians/South Asians = Arabians?

Using your logic most Arabs and Southern Europeans are the same people (LOL), because we share the exact same paternal and maternal haplogroups? Let alone people of the Middle East, Caucasus etc.

Lol, where you searched?

There is no mention of any ethnicity called "Indian".


There is no mention of any "Urdu ethnicity" in any scholarly works either. India is as diverse ethnically, racially and linguistically as Sub-Saharan Africa. Your desperation of trying to create some kind of homogenous ethnic group called "Indian" is ridiculed by every scholarly work and scientific fact whether linguistic, DNA wise or even cultural.

Learn the difference between a religious cultural group (Indian Muslims that speak Urdu, mainly based in Bihar, Lucknow, Delhi etc.) and an ethnic group.

You seem to struggle with this simple difference enormously. Hence our previous Arab Jewish Israelis discussion where you tried to somehow distinguish (ethnically and racially) between and Yemeni Jew and a Yemeni Muslim when they are genetically identical.

Lastly speaking about DNA and genetic closeness between groups of peoples, posting maps of 25.000 year old Y-DNA haplorgoups (paternal line) tell very little about genetic affinity.

Here is a PCA plot.

li09pca.jpg


Do you notice that populations of the Middle East and Europe cluster most closely together of any people on earth? There is geographical, historical, human migrations etc. reason for that as well as a racial (we are all Caucasian peoples rather than say Negroid, Dravidian (huge percentage of Indians are that), Mongoloid, Papuan etc).

Using your idiotic logic Europeans = Middle Easterners.:lol:

BTW the R Y-DNA (R1a an R1b) haplogroup in KSA averages around 20-25% yet it has nothing to do with race, ethnicity etc. as those haplogroups are 25.000 year old. J haplogroups and E haplogroups are much, much older than R for instance.

Frankly my dear I couldn't give a damn. I don't have the time to school you on history. IVC is as native as it gets to South Asia. You want to believe otherwise, you're free to do so.

Buddy are you hallucinating? Not enough of sleep during the fast? Why do you continue to lie about what I have written even though my writings are "publicly" available on this thread and contradict your lies? Why are you rescued to posting 2 one-liners composed of lies?

I wrote that if one used your messed up logic/fallacy that you used in the beginning aimed at civilizations and cultures native to Arab lands that only Arabs can lay an ancestral/civilizational/linguistic etc. claim to, (where you denied such an obvious right), I wrote, that using that very SAME logic, Pakistanis should not be claiming the IVC either as the IVC predates the ethnic groups found in Pakistan by millennia as well. Are my writings too complicated or are you just very fond of making up lies and distorting what people are writing?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
A unified focus and effort against Israel is something the Israeli fear the most. Looking at this in terms of strategy, they would like nothing more than to cause a perpetual chaos in the region where everyone else is focused on each except the Israelis. As for why care about Palestinians, if we deliberately do nothing for the suffering of others, especially in a large example of Palestine, then can we claim to be god loving? If you ignore the the suffering of Allah's creations, then how would you even have the cheek to try and claim to be anything close to decent come judgement day?

The Apartheid ,ghettoisation and cultural genocide of Palestinians is the responsibility of all in the region to fight against. I have no doubt that should the Israelis go to this next step, you will see a unified effort against them. If it does happen, it will happen soon, and you will see what I mean. In terms of what we can do, there are many military means of turning up the heat against the Israelis.

Sorry man, you need to care about the Syrians before you try to care for the Palestinians. Like I always say, hardly any of Muslims today are sincere about obeying their Lord. Actually some of you take it farther and make mockery out of God by pretending to be good willed. You think God doesn't know the truth about you people?
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom