Killing thy neighbour: India, and its Border Security Force

[ares]

^^suddenly you have all forgotten about fate of Bangladeshi citizens and want to go off topic..as you are unable to come with any retorts?

 

[divya]

Does not the Indian .... Politician proudly say that India is the largest democratic country..... Then why India does not conduct election on Kashmir to determine the will of the Kashmiri.... People.... Which is asked by un...... Or India want to keep Kashmir by force without the will of the Kashmiri people....

There are already elections in India where the people of Kashmir already select their government. And just because there are some separatists does not mean that there should be elections everywhere within India. Neither in the world it happens nor in India. If that would have been the logic there would have been elections in Sri Lanka for tamils, Balochistan and NWPF in Pakistan etc

 

[PRACTICAL PATRIOT]

Better keep the thread to your BSF lynching of our innocent citizens at the border. Your country belongs to a group of people like you who live in total misery, but tries to convince the world that India is part of 1st world.

To prove your point that there are BD illegals in your India, you guys keep on posting some stupid claims that BD citizens are so desparate that they are taking risks of migrating to your cow-dung unclean country. Stop a while and read what other people think of your big ****** country. India's living condition is far worse than most of the countries of the world, do not forget that.

VOA | Study: More Poor People in India than in 26 African Countries | Asia | English

Asia RSS Feed Study: More Poor People in India than in 26 African Countries
Selah Hennessy | London 14 July 2010

According to a new study more people live in poverty in eight Indian states than in 26 of sub-Saharan Africa's poorest countries. The creators of the new study said the level of poverty in South Asia compared to Africa was a surprising discovery.

The Multidimensional Poverty Index takes into account issues such as health and education and whether or not people have access to clean water and electricity.

Sabina Alkire is director of the Oxford Poverty and Human Development Initiative and she co-created the new index.

"One striking feature is that most of the poor people live in South Asia – 51 percent of the 1.7 billion people that we have identified as poor are resident in that continent," says Alkire. "And it is not only the number, but also the intensity."

She says about one-quarter of the world's poor live in Africa, according to the MPI.

"When we compare the 26 poorest countries of Africa with states in India that have the same intensity of deprivation, we find there are more poor people with this intensity of deprivation in India than in sub-Saharan Africa. And that is quite striking," Alkire adds.

Alkire says the new Index paints a different and sometimes surprising picture of poverty than studies that look at income alone.

For example, in Ethiopia 90 percent of people are 'MPI poor' compared to the 39 percent who are classified as living in 'extreme poverty'. And 1.7-billion people living in the countries covered by the Index live in poverty according to the MPI – that is higher than the 1.3-billion people who live on $1.25 a day or less.

Alkire says a benefit of the new index is that it shows how poverty affects people living in different regions of a country.

"So we looked at Kenya, where Nairobi has the poverty of the Dominican Republic – not too much poverty – whereas the northeastern rural area of Kenya is worse than our poorest country, Niger, with more than 90 percent of people poor," Alkire said.

She says it also shows the range of poverty amongst different ethnic groups – she says in some countries the variety is tremendous.

The Multidimensional Poverty Index was developed by the Oxford Poverty and Human Development Initiative with support from the United Nations. It will be featured in the upcoming UNDP Human Development Report, replacing the Human Poverty Index.

Researchers analyzed data from 104 countries with a combined population of 5.2 billion – just under 80 percent of the world's total population.

Ok agreed INDIA is most poorest country on earth. so now you should be happy that we are building wall on border so that our poor INDIAN wont cross border to go to rich BD. so BD Will be poor INDIA proof.

and since no one is crossing border to enter INDIA illegaly there is no question of BSF killing anyone.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

There are already elections in India where the people of Kashmir already select their government. And just because there are some separatists does not mean that there should be elections everywhere within India. Neither in the world it happens nor in India. If that would have been the logic there would have been elections in Sri Lanka for tamils, Balochistan and NWPF in Pakistan etc

Israel also conduct election in the illegally occupied territory which is not recognized by un or any country in the world.... Go check the un resolution it asked to conduct election to solve the dispute and to determine the will of the Kashmiri people..... It is not a matter of separatist issue... This is the major dispute with Pakistan.... If it is really a separatist issue then why not India fulfill the u. Obligation to conduct an election to determine the fate of Kashmir and it's people....

 

[StingRoy]

Then why not the election that is asked by un.... What has stopped India to conduct that election and shut the mouth of Pakistan for ever...

OK... we are going way off topic here... but I will respond to this last question of yours.
It has been posted several times on this forum about the UN preconditions holding back the referendum voting for Kashmiris. We just can't hold fair and impartial referendum elections if the conditions aren't met.
Now on topic please.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

Ok agreed INDIA is most poorest country on earth. so now you should be happy that we are building wall on border so that our poor INDIAN wont cross border to go to rich BD. so BD Will be poor INDIA proof.

and since no one is crossing border to enter INDIA illegaly there is no question of BSF killing anyone.

This is the per capita gdp of India and Pakistan east and west... In 1970 and 1971.... India was a very poor country.... Had almost half the GDP of Pakistan.... Bangladesh....s GDP laged behind mainly due to liberation war where all the infrastructure was destroyed... Pakistan moved the reserve... And changed the currency to destroy bd economy after the war... Bangladesh started just with 35 dollar reserve... But did reletively well then both Pakistan and India... Just look at the womans education...mortality rate...child birth rate... In every cases bd has done well then both India and Pakistan... If 1971 would not happen India would lagged by a fair mirgin in terms of per capita GDP....

Country Year Value

Pakistan 1970 218
India 1970 112
Pakistan 1971 229
India 1971 117

 

[Bang Galore]

Does not the Indian .... Politician proudly say that India is the largest democratic country..... Then why India does not conduct election on Kashmir to determine the will of the Kashmiri.... People.... Which is asked by un...... Or India want to keep Kashmir by force without the will of the Kashmiri people....

India will conduct any number of elections. Elections are conducted within the ambit of the Indian constitution which means secession is not on the table. You may remember that the United States didn't allow the southern states to secede and it is still regarded as one of the greatest democracies.

 

[TROJAN.EXE]

India will conduct any number of elections. Elections are conducted within the ambit of the Indian constitution which means secession is not on the table. You may remember that the United States didn't allow the southern states to secede and it is still regarded as one of the greatest democracies.

this is not what the u.n. resolutions call for. you can't run and cry to the u.n. for a cease fire after pakistan took half of kashmir away from you to not abide by their brokered rules to end the war.

 

[PRACTICAL PATRIOT]

This is the per capita gdp of India and Pakistan east and west... In 1970 and 1971.... India was a very poor country.... Had almost half the GDP of Pakistan.... Bangladesh....s GDP laged behind mainly due to liberation war where all the infrastructure was destroyed... Pakistan moved the reserve... And changed the currency to destroy bd economy after the war... Bangladesh started just with 35 dollar reserve... But did reletively well then both Pakistan and India... Just look at the womans education...mortality rate...child birth rate... In every cases bd has done well then both India and Pakistan... If 1971 would not happen India would lagged by a fair mirgin in terms of per capita GDP....

Country Year Value

Pakistan 1970 218
India 1970 112
Pakistan 1971 229
India 1971 117

cant you read?
i already agreed that INDIA is poor country. and hence BD should be happy that we are building wall between INDIA and BD so that no POOR from INDIA can go to BD. and off course there is no one crossing from BD to INDIA so BSF WONt have to kill anyone. Isnt that what you want?

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

So actually we are doing your job by hunting down your criminals?

did you read my post or you are fooling yourself.... Go check the bio... Whom BSF has killed... Mostly they are farmed, kattle traders... Innocent civilians... Even teenagers... There are couple of hundreds villages where borders are disputed or are Bangladeshi but their border is in India .. So they need to come to bd again through India... Or need to go to their villages through India... In many other cases relatives, farm land, bazaars are separated by these disputed borders... Where your cruel BSF kill those innocent civilians...never heard any criminal of bd was killed by BSF N this crossing happen from both sides... Have you forgot few days earlier idune posted the news where 80 Indians entered bd to take the harvest and how India illegally occupied 166 acre of land...

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

cant you read?
i already agreed that INDIA is poor country. and hence BD should be happy that we are building wall between INDIA and BD so that no POOR from INDIA can go to BD. and off course there is no one crossing from BD to INDIA so BSF WONt have to kill anyone. Isnt that what you want?

Read my last post and earlier posts I never said there is any problem... To build fence or wall.. It is up to India what ever they would like to do... I just said it is un ethical or barbaric to kill un armed civilians those who live in the disputed bordering area.... If BSF had any suspicion about any people then they can arrest them ...and interrogate them... If they have the opportunity... Instead
killing them especially what happened in the case of the teenage girl.. Where this barbaric force even did not gave her water...which is inhuman and violation of human right... Most importantly they were going to bd... Not coming to India...

 

[ares]

did you read my post or you are fooling yourself.... Go check the bio... Whom BSF has killed... Mostly they are farmed, kattle traders... Innocent civilians... Even teenagers... There are couple of hundreds villages where borders are disputed or are Bangladeshi but their border is in India .. So they need to come to bd again through India... Or need to go to their villages through India... In many other cases relatives, farm land, bazaars are separated by these disputed borders... Where your cruel BSF kill those innocent civilians...never heard any criminal of bd was killed by BSF N this crossing happen from both sides... Have you forgot few days earlier idune posted the news where 80 Indians entered bd to take the harvest and how India illegally occupied 166 acre of land...

I did read your post even highlighted the part about Bangladeshi criminal crossing in to India..plus there are no cattle trader..they are cattle smugglers on the top your BDR does not care if they are killed here is the proof.

Killing thy neighbour: India, and its Border Security Force
Posted on January 9, 2011

New Age | Newspaper

Killing thy neighbour: India, and its Border Security Force
Rahnuma Ahmed

This lack of ‘understanding’ percolates to the topmost levels of both border forces. During an official visit to Bangladesh and talks between the BSF and the BDR (Bangladesh Rifles, recently renamed Border Guard Bangladesh) in September 2010, Raman Srivastava, director general of the BSF, in response to allegations that BSF troopers were killing innocent and unarmed Bangladeshi civilians said: ‘The deaths have occurred in Indian territory and mostly during night, so how can they be innocent?’ Ideas reciprocated by the BDR chief Major General Mainul Islam in March 2010, who, while explaining that there was a history of ‘people and cattle trafficking during darkness’, said, ‘We should not be worried about such incidents [killings]…. We have discussed the matter and will ensure that no innocent people will be killed.’

.

 

[PRACTICAL PATRIOT]

Read my last post and earlier posts I never said there is any problem... To build fence or wall.. It is up to India what ever they would like to do... I just said it is un ethical or barbaric to kill un armed civilians those who live in the disputed bordering area.... If BSF had any suspicion about any people then they can arrest them ...and interrogate them... If they have the opportunity... Instead
killing them especially what happened in the case of the teenage girl.. Where this barbaric force even did not gave her water...which is inhuman and violation of human right... Most importantly they were going to bd... Not coming to India...

so now you have made INDIA - BD border as disputed border too. great going.
its clearly mentioned that girl was crossing wall and fencing so dont tell me she was unaware that it is border.
and since they were crossing into BD from INDIA our BSF killed to save BSF from intrusion from INDIAN side as it is our responsibility to prevent any illegal migration from our side. if BDR is not doing their responsibility that doesnt mean BSF also should not do their responsibility.

it is very easy to say BSF should have done this and that girl was to young and innocent after you have entire report in your hand but when soldiers face the actual situation they dont have privileged of knowing it already and have to see everyone doing illegal things as possible threat irrespective of shape and size.

now coming to killing then its sad but when such things happen there is no alternative, illegal migration is as good as unarmed invasion which can not be tolerated. and its no secret that BSF will kill intruders so why to intrude?
if you are doing it then you should be ready to face the consequences.

and what initiative BD HAS taken to stop this ???
INDIA atleast is trying to build the wall to stop it.

 

[Bigger]

Killing thy neighbour: India, and its Border Security Force
Posted on January 9, 2011

New Age | Newspaper

Killing thy neighbour: India, and its Border Security Force
Rahnuma Ahmed

Felani’s clothes got entangled in the barbed wire when she was crossing the Anantapur border in Kurigram. It was 6 in the morning, Friday, 7th January 2011. Felani was 15, she worked in Delhi and was returning home with her father after ten years. To get married. She screamed. The BSF shot her dead. They took away her body.

THE fence is made of steel and concrete. Packed with razor wire, double-walled and 8-foot high, it is being built by the government of India on its border with Bangladesh. When completed, it promises to be larger than the United States-Mexico fence, Israel’s apartheid wall with Palestine, and the Berlin wall put together. It has been dubbed the Great Wall of India.

The fence is being constructed, with floodlighting in parts, to secure India’s borders against interests hostile to the country. To put in place systems that are able to ‘interdict’ these hostile elements. They will include a suitable mix and class of various types of hi-tech electronic surveillance equipment such as night vision devices, handheld thermal imagers, battlefield surveillance radars, direction finders, unattended ground sensors, high-powered telescopes to act as a ‘force multiplier’ for ‘effective’ border management. According to its rulers, this is ‘vitally important for national security.’

Seventy per cent of fencing along the Bangladesh border has been completed. In reply to a question in the Rajya Sabha on November 10, 2010, the Indian state minister for home affairs said, fencing will be completed by March 2012. One estimate puts the project’s cost at ?600 million.

The colonial boundary division between East Pakistan/Bangladesh and India, notes Willem van Schendel, had little to do with modern concepts of spatial rationality. It was anything but a straight line, snaking ‘through the countryside in a wacky zigzag pattern’ showing no respect for history, cutting through innumerable geographical entities, for example, the ancient capital of Gaur. It was reflective of someone with an ‘excessively baroque mind’ (The Bengal Borderland: Beyond State and Nation in South Asia, 2005)

The fence divides and separates. Villages. Agricultural lands. Markets. Families. Communities. It cuts across mangrove-swamps in the southwest, forests and mountains in the northeast (Delwar Hussain, March 2, 2009). It divides villages. Everyday village-life must now submit to a tangle of bureaucracy as Indian Muslim law clerk, Maznu Rahman Mandal and his wife Ahmeda Khatun, a Bangladeshi, discovered after Ahmeda’s father died. To attend the latter’s funeral in the same village, Bhira, they would now have to get passports from Delhi, visas from Kolkata (Bidisha Bannerjee, December 20, 2010). It split up Fazlur Rehman’s family too, the fence snaked into their Panidhar village homestead, his younger brother who lived right next door, is now in another country (Time, February 5, 2009). Other border residents have had their homes split in two, the kitchen in one country, the bedroom in another.

To access one’s field, or markets, residents must now line up at long queues at the BSF border outposts, surrender their identity cards. They must submit to the BSF’s regimen, which often means disregarding what the crop needs. As Mithoo Sheikh of Murshidabad says, ‘The BSF does not understand cultivation problems.’ By the time we get to the field it is noon. Sometimes we get water only at night. But we have to stop working at 4pm, because they will not let us remain in the field. If we disobey, they beat us, they file false charges. (‘Trigger Happy’. Excessive Use of Force by Indian Troops at the Bangladesh Border, Human Rights Watch, December 2010).

This lack of ‘understanding’ percolates to the topmost levels of both border forces. During an official visit to Bangladesh and talks between the BSF and the BDR (Bangladesh Rifles, recently renamed Border Guard Bangladesh) in September 2010, Raman Srivastava, director general of the BSF, in response to allegations that BSF troopers were killing innocent and unarmed Bangladeshi civilians said: ‘The deaths have occurred in Indian territory and mostly during night, so how can they be innocent?’ Ideas reciprocated by the BDR chief Major General Mainul Islam in March 2010, who, while explaining that there was a history of ‘people and cattle trafficking during darkness’, said, ‘We should not be worried about such incidents [killings]…. We have discussed the matter and will ensure that no innocent people will be killed.’

Abdur Rakib was catching fish in Dohalkhari lake, inside Bangladeshi territory. It was March 13, 2009. A witness saw a BSF soldier standing at the border, talking loudly. ‘It seemed that he wanted the boy to give him some free fish.’ Heated argument, verbal abuse. ‘The BSF pointed a gun at the boy. The boy ran and the soldier started to shoot.’ Two were injured. Rakib was shot in the chest. He died instantly. He was 13.

Smuggling, cattle rustling and human trafficking has increased in the border areas as poor farmers and landless people faced by population increases, poor irrigation, flooding, and continuous river erosion struggle to make ends meet. While both the BSF and the BGB accuse each other of corruption, the reality, says the recent Human Rights Watch report, is that some officials, border guards, and politicians on both sides are almost certainly involved in smuggling. It quotes a senior BSF official, ‘There are a lot of people involved, including our chaps. That is why only these farmers, with one or two cows are caught, not groups that ferry large consignments of cattle or drugs.’

A culture of impunity prevails, says Kirity Roy, head of Manabadhikar Suraksha Mancha (Masum), a Kolkata-based human rights organisation. We have repeatedly approached the courts, the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), the National Minorities Commission, the National Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, the National Commission for Protection of Child Rights. But none of the cases raised have been brought to a satisfactory conclusion. In some cases, family members appeared before the BSF court of inquiry but we, as the de facto complainant, were never summoned to appear or depose before any inquiry conducted by BSF. No verdicts have been made public.

Neither has the BSF provided any details to Bangladeshi authorities of any BSF personnel having been prosecuted for human rights violation. Impunity is legally sanctioned as the BSF is exempt from criminal prosecution unless specific approval is granted by the Indian government. A new bill to prohibit torture is being considered by the Indian parliament, it includes legal impunity.

On April 22, 2009, when Rabindranath Mandal and his wife were returning to Bangladesh after having illegally gone to India for Rabindranath’s treatment, a BSF patrol team from Ghojadanga camp detained them. She was raped. Rabindranath tried to save her, they killed him. The following morning, the BSF jawans left her and her husband’s dead body at the Zero Line at Lakkhidari.

The reason for building the fence, said an Indian Ministry of External Affairs spokesperson, is the same as the United States’ Mexico fence. As Israel’s fence on the West Bank. To prevent illegal migration and terrorist infiltration.

But Rizwana Shamshad points out that the hysteria generated by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party during the 1980s and 1990s—Bangladeshi Muslim ‘infiltration’ by the millions constitutes a serious strain on the national economy, it poses a threat to India’s stability and security, it represents a challenge to Indian sovereignty, demographic changes will soon lead to Bangladeshi citizens demanding a separate state from India—did not withstand investigation. A study carried out by the Centre for Study of Society and Secularism in 1995 revealed that the BJP-Shiv Sena allegations were not only an exaggeration, but a complete fabrication. Fears and insecurities had been deliberately whipped up to consolidate Hindutva ideology; migrants, it seemed, were more preoccupied with struggling to make a living. While the BJP-Shiv Sena had alleged that there were 300,000 illegal Bangladeshi migrants in Mumbai, they were able to detect and deport only 10,000 Bangladeshi migrants, when in power (1998-2004).

The numbers vary with each media or official report, writes Rizwana. A BJP National Executive meeting declared over 15 million (April 1992). Nearly 10 million, said former Union Home Minister Indrajit Gupta (May 6, 1997). The group of cabinet ministers (home, defence, external affairs, finance) set up by prime minister Vajpayee post Kargil, reported 15 million (2000). The definitions, she adds, are prejudiced: Muslim migrants are described as ‘infiltrators’. Hindu migrants as ‘refugees’. Neither is there any mention of the Indian economy having benefited from cheap labour.

The HRW report notes, few killed by the BSF have ever been shown to have been involved in terrorism. In the cases investigated, alleged criminals were armed with nothing but sickles, sticks and knives, implements commonly carried by villagers. Nor do the dead bodies bear out the BSF’s justification that they had fired in self-defence. Shots in the back indicate that the victims had been shot running away. Shots at close range signal they were probably killed in custody.

The BSF kills Indian nationals too. In Indian territory. Basirun Bibi and her 6-month old grandson Ashique, May 2010. Atiur Rahman, March 2010. Shahjahan Gazi, November 2009. Noor Hossain, September 2009. Shyamsundar Mondal, August 2009. Sushanta Mondal, July 2009. Abdus Samad, May 2009. The imposition of informal curfews on both sides of the border at night, reportedly to prevent the accidental shooting of villagers, has not lessened the number of innocent people killed.

Beatings, torture, rape, killings. What could be the reason for such compulsively violent behaviour? According to the HRW report, it could have been caused by previous deployment in the Indo-Pakistan border in Kashmir, by ‘difficult and tense periods of duty.’

However, checkpoints, curfews, hi-tech electronic surveillance equipment, harassment, intimidation, beatings, torture and sniper fire remind me of Gaza. Not surprising, given that once finished, the fence will ‘all but encircle Bangladesh’ (Time, February 5, 2009).

The 1947 colonial border division was reflective of someone with an ‘excessively baroque mind.’ Its brutal enforcement through fencing, through the deployment of trigger-happy BSF soldiers speak of a Nazi-state mentality.

Not too far-fetched given Israel and India’s ‘limitless relationship’ (Military ties unlimited: India and Israel, New Age, January 18, 2010). This includes Israeli training of Indian commandos in urban warfare and counter-insurgency operations (in Kashmir), and proposals for offering the Border Security Forces specialised training. Given Israel’s behaviour, which Auschwitz survivor, Hajo Meyer, likens to the Nazis. ‘I can write up an endless list of similarities between Nazi Germany and Israel.’

Israel’s inability to learn to live with its neighbours is increasingly turning it into a ‘pariah state’ (British MP). Its ‘paranoia’ has been noted by Israelis themselves (Gideon Levy). That a similar future awaits India is increasingly clear.

working in Delhi..
Another illegal immigrant?Crossing the border hideously?
Gosh Bangladeshi's form a huge chunk of poor people in metro's of India.
The govt. needs to move them out.

Though i don't support her killing,but she was an illegal immigrant,like loads and loads of others.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

I did read your post even highlighted the part about Bangladeshi criminal crossing in to India..plus there are no cattle trader..they are cattle smugglers on the top your BDR does not care if they are killed here is the proof.

You cleverly posted only one paragraph but not the 2 paragraph which followed that one....


Abdur Rakib was catching fish in Dohalkhari lake, inside Bangladeshi territory. It was March 13, 2009. A witness saw a BSF soldier standing at the border, talking loudly. ‘It seemed that he wanted the boy to give him some free fish.’ Heated argument, verbal abuse. ‘The BSF pointed a gun at the boy. The boy ran and the soldier started to shoot.’ Two were injured. Rakib was shot in the chest. He died
instantly. He was 13.


Smuggling, cattle rustling and human trafficking has increased in the border areas as poor farmers and landless people faced by population increases, poor irrigation, flooding, and continuous river erosion struggle to make ends meet. While both the BSF and the BGB accuse each other of corruption, the reality, says the recent Human Rights Watch report, is that some officials, border guards, and politicians on both sides are almost certainly involved in smuggling. It quotes a senior BSF official, ‘There are a lot of people involved, including our chaps. That is why only
these farmers, with one or two cows are caught, not groups that ferry large consignments of cattle or drugs.’


If cattle smuggling is happening it is happening from the Indian side... Never heard of any significance number of Indian those who were arrested for this.... Your BSF is killing poor farmers those who live by buying cheap cow from India and selling it at a high price in bd but not the person those who doing the smuggling by providing them with the cow... As the article indicated a major portion of the BSF and Indian politician are corrupted those who are helping to do all these... Same also true for bdr... But it never justifies to kill unarmed civilian directly if BSF has the chance to arrest them.... This is a serious violation of human right.... Which is pointed out by the human right groups.... So ask your BSF to stop the Indians those who conduct the smuggling at first before killing the poor farmers...