Khiljis are Pashtuns

[Yaduveer]

All people kneel before PDF Mughals especially from Potohar and Hazara regions.

but Wait Wait ... Why Mughals doing Jhinga la la dance with arrows and bows?

Any way, No arguments with Mughals .. just kneel !

 

[Multani]

Alam Lohaar Jugni

Listen and enjoy

We are talking here ONLY about punjabi "mughal" (lohars) as their traditional role in punjabi village society. Forget about other societies of kashmir, UP or whatever area. Just expain how mughal emperors turned into kammis of punjabi society serving local land owning families

I don't know much about Mughal emperors. I believe a few dozen of their descendents, from the princes and princesses, are in Mughalpura/Dharampura in Lahore [ Urdu speakers from Delhi and western UP, some from Tonk in Rajasthan ]

 

[Shahmir]

mughals in pothohar and hazara regions have proper tribal names.....Ohh Yeah !

In Indian books it is written that Babar came from Farghana Valley in Uzbekistan..you know Indian Books, they are crazy !

Beta there were mughals within mughals as they say wheels within wheels

 

[ranjeet]

We are talking here ONLY about punjabi "mughal" (lohars) as their traditional role in punjabi village society. Forget about other societies of kashmir, UP or whatever area. Just expain how mughal emperors turned into kammis of punjabi society serving local land owning families

Mughal emperors defeated jats so badly that once Mughal empire was over jats were left with nothing but mere cows and buffaloes to herd and land holdings all around delhi.

 

[Shahmir]

I am pretty sure he meant decendents of Mughal army brought from central asia and not actual mughal ruling family. Right @Shameer Kashmir?

Yes you got it right, when we call someone mughal, it does not mean that they are from lineage of Akbar the great, there were hordes of tribes fighting on the ground and doing administerative work for them in different parts of punjab, many of these tribes could even be of local dominant origin but having worked under mughal emperors posed themselves as mughals too but they retained their orginal tribal names which still exist in full letter and spirit.

 

[Multani]

Beta there were mughals within mughals as they say wheels within wheels

The fact is clear. In Northern Punjab, many Mughal families adopted the Lohaar profession. And these were primarily from Jammu (Chughtai) And they are in the north eastern districts. And they are mostly urban dwellers or near urban areas.

Fakers are easily recognizable.

 

[ghoul]

I found interesting article on Punjabi mughals, does this explain well? Also i didn't knew Tanoli were not supposed to be pashtuns....

History of Mughals in Pakistan
In Pakistan, Mughal communities are found in Sindh and Punjab provinces.

In Punjab


The Mughal (Mistry) are considered directly descended from theMughal dynasty that ruled India. During the fall of the Mughalempire most of the Mughals that survived were forced to flee, leaving their land and wealth behind. They escaped into the mountains of Kashmir and gradually settled in (Azaad Kashmir - Pakistan). With their love for Architecture, they took to work as builders (Mistry). Others took to metal work (Lohar) and Carpentry (Tarkhan)Tarkhan Dynasty.They are known to have replaced the tribal tradition and opted for the Indian caste system similar to tribal law. Mughals in Mirpur are skilled builders, skilled carpenters (Tarkhan)Tarkhan and skilled black smiths (Lohars)but are not confined to this. Mughals have superb artistic and creative skills and are regarded as the highest caste in the artisan classes. Their skills can be seen in the mosques and buildings that have been built by them. The region of Punjab is also home to a large number of Mughal communities. Historically, they were found in the largest numbers in and around the city of Delhi, and the Rawalpindi Division. The Mughalof the Rawalpindi Division belong to local agricultural tribes locally known by their tribal names, such as the Satti, Gheba, Phaphra and kassar tribes of the Barlas Mughals and Chughtai are also found in the Punjab In addition to these agriculture tribes, members of the Lohar community found in the Punjab also claim Mughal ancestry.A brief description of the major tribal groupings in Punjab that claim Mughalancestry follows.

Phaphra
Several tribal groupings in the Pothohar region of Punjab, Pakistan claim Mughal ancestry. One such tribe are the Phaphra. They occupy a compact area of about 25 square miles (65 km2) at the foot of the Salt Range, east of Pind Dadan Khan in Jhelum District in Pakistan.


The tribe claims to be Mughals, but British ethnographers writing at the beginning of the 20th century expressed doubts. According to their tradition, the tribe came from the direction of Faridkot in Punjab, and settled in the district as traders and agriculturists. The tribe claims descent from a Phaphra who settled in the district in the 15th century.

Gheba

The Gheba are another tribe from the Pothohar region, being one of the principal tribes of the Attock District. They are found mainly in Fateh Jang Tehsil of Attock and claim descent from Gheba khan, who was said to be a Barlas Mughal.

Khamb


The Khamb is another tribe claiming to be Mughal, and found mainly in the Pothohar region of northern Punjab. According to their traditions, the ancestors of the Khamb arrived from Kathiawar, in what is now the modern state of Gujerat in India.


The Khamb were settled in their present abode by a Hashmat Khan, a chief of the Thathal tribe, who are natives of the Pothohar region. This Hashmat Khan was appointed as a garrison commander of Khambhat in Kathiawar by the Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb. When Hashmat returned to the Pothohar region of Pakistan, he was accompanied by members of the garrison at Khambait. These troops were of a mixed origin and included troopers of Mongol and Afghan origin from Badakshan. He ordered that a village be built and named it Khanpur, and the Khamb tribe was granted land in and around the new town.


The Khamb, being of at least partly Turkic extraction are now considered to be a clan of the Mughal tribe. Local tradition makes the Moghul tribe to be called Barlas. At present they live in Khambi Kaleechpur and Khanpur in the Gujrat district of Punjab.
Kassar

The Kassar are a Mughal tribe and one of the three major land-owning tribes in the Dhani country of Chakwal District in Punjab province, Pakistan. They occupy the northern part of Dhani, called Babial and Chaupeda. According to the Jhelum District settlement report of 1862, they are mentioned as having come from Jammu along with the Mair-Minhas tribe and been settled in this area by the MughalEmperor, Zaheerudin Babur. According to their traditions, they claim descent from a kinsmen of the Emperor Babur, Kassar. He was said to be a distant cousin of Babur. In addition to Chakwal, they are also found in Sargodha, Jhelum, Attock, Khoshab, Rawalpindi, Tehsil Sohawa, Badin (Sindh), Larkana (Sindh), Muzafar Abad (Kashmir), Ponch (Kashmir), Cakothi(Kashmir).

Jandran

The Jandran are a tribe of Mughal status, found mainly Jhang, Khanewal, Vehari, Lodhran and Sargodha districts of Punjab.
Turk Mughal


In Punjab, the term Turk refers to any inhabitant of Central Asia, or Turkestan, as the region was historically known. The Turks of the Punjab region include the Karlugh Turks of the Hazara Division, who were settled in the region by Timur. These Karlugh Turks resumed the title of "Raja" by which locals used to call them during their rule of Pakhli state, while some Turk clans use "Usmani" as their surname, probably due to their Turkish origin. In addition to these Turks, there was also a colony of Turks settled in Gurdaspur District who were once said to be ropemakers. They claim descent from Turk soldiers settled in Gurdaspur District by the Khilji sultans. These Turks are now settled in and around the city of Faisalabad.

Other clans


* Baig Mughal

* Mirza Mughal

* Ginhal Mughal

* Bandey Mughal

* Mir Mughal

* Mangval Mughal

* Langryal Mughal

* Bich Mughal

* Gani Mughal

* Ashaie Mughal

* Bub Mughal

* Ganju Gharhi Mughal

* Batlla Mughal

* Babri Mughal

* Salour Mughal

* Pathan Mughal

* Numbeli Mughal (tribe of murree)

* Manjotha Mughal

* Marrar Mughal Barlas

* Mughalzai

* Mughal khel

* Mangal

* orya khel

* Mughal Lal Khail

* Tanoli [Tanoli consider themselves to descend from one Amir Khan, a Barlas Mughal]


In Sindh


In Sindh, two Mughal dynasties, the Arghun and Tarkhan, held power for a short periods in the 16th Century. Most of the Sindhi Mughals are descended from Central Asian immigrants who settled in the province during the rule of these two dynasties, these two dynasties were later subdued by Babur. Many Sindhi Mughal's also claim to have arrived in the region during the rebellion of Sher Shah Suri against the Mughal heir-apparent Humayun, in fact many Mughal's settled in Umarkot, and young Akbar was born there. in Sindh the Mughals ruled with the assistance of the Kalhora tribe. Among the famousMughal administrators of Sindh was Mirza Ghazi Beg, during his rule many Sindhi's entered the service of the Mughal Emperors.


A small number of Qazilbash tribesmen settled in Sindh in the 18th Century. A small number of Mughalfamilies are descended from Georgian immigrants, such as the family of Mirza Qilich Beg, the famous Sindhi, who came to during the invasion of Nadir Shah and flourished during the rule of Talpurs. The Sindh Mughals are Sunni, and now entirely speak Sindhi. Manzoor Mughal (D.I.G)Deputy inspector general of police investigations Karachi.Now present Director Intelligence Karachi.Ghulam NabiMughal,an eminent writer of sindhi language and retired Regional Director Food Deppt.(Govt.Sindh) ,belongs to Hyderabad since 1915-20.His family lineage revealed that they were first came into Nasrpur(Sindh,period approximately in the end of 17th century) from the region of kashmir.

In Khyber Pakhtunkhwa

Hazara


In Hazara, the Mughals are found in all the Division, especially Haripur,Abbottabad,and Mansrhra.Tehsil Ghazi also have Mughals.First Settler was Ghazi Baig.

Tanolis are not Pakhtuns by any angle. It gets quite obvious from their looks, which are mostly indic/hazarewal. Some ANP thugs do claim Tanolis of Hazara as Pasthuns because there is some insignificant small Pashtun tribe called "Taniwali" in Ghazni Afghanistan. But the Tanoli of Hazara are not related to those insignificant people. Some Harazarawal Tanolis might claim to be Pashtuns because they can't look past the lies being spread by ANP supporters and dubious local literature, but their chief and educated families always claim a Barlas mughal origin.

If you look at their history, you'd know that they are not Pashtuns from any angle. When the Sikhs were defeated by East India Company, their garrisons in Hazara got surrounded by Tanoli tribesmen. But the Tanoli chief spared the lives of the defending Sikh soldiers for the sake of humanity, for which he was rewarded by the Dogra raja of Jammu. Do you expect such an action from Pashtuns going by their history?

And the Tarkhans and Lohars claiming a mughal origin are not mughal by any means for the most part. In Pakistan punjab, it's fashionable to deny one's hindhu roots and claiming a fallacious foreign origin. Hardly anyone in Punjab would claim that his/her ancestors were converted from hinduism. Only rajputs own their hindu background. I have seen some people who dislike the rajputs talking stuff about how the rajputs were "hindu converts" and hence not respectable lol.

 

[Multani]

Punjabi Mughals have family names like

1) Chughtai
2) Barlas
3) Baig
4) Mirza
5) Ghori
6) Kassar

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Tanolis are not Pakhtuns by any angle. It gets quite obvious from their looks, which are mostly indic/hazarewal. Some ANP thugs do claim Tanolis of Hazara as Pasthuns because there is some insignificant small Pashtun tribe called "Taniwali" in Ghazni Afghanistan. But the Tanoli of Hazara are not related to those insignificant people. Some Harazarawal Tanolis might claim to be Pashtuns because they can't look past the lies being spread by ANP supporters and dubious local literature, but their chief and educated families always claim a Barlas mughal origin.

If you look at their history, you'd know that they are not Pashtuns from any angle. When the Sikhs were defeated by East India Company, their garrisons in Hazara got surrounded by Tanoli tribesmen. But the Tanoli chief spared the lives of the defending Sikh soldiers for the sake of humanity, for which he was rewarded by the Dogra raja of Jammu. Do you expect such an action from Pashtuns going by their history?

And the Tarkhans and Lohars claiming a mughal origin are not mughal by any means for the most part. In Pakistan punjab, it's fashionable to deny one's hindhu roots and claiming a fallacious foreign origin. Hardly anyone in Punjab would claim that his/her ancestors were converted from hinduism. Only rajputs own their hindu background. I have seen some people who dislike the rajputs talking stuff about how the rajputs were "hindu converts" and hence not respectable lol.

Ok thats make sense, Feroz Khan family of bollywood is also Tanoli. And there is another tribe in AJK Sudhans who claim pathan ancestry because of similar sounding name from tribe in Afghanistan. But actually are brahmins converts of indic origin.

 

[Shahmir]

I have seen some people who dislike the rajputs talking stuff about how the rajputs were "hindu converts" and hence not respectable lol.

You are right about "Rajput" part, even in recent episode of Lahore killings of TUQ supporters, one of the spokesperson of TUQ referred to Rana Sanaullah as "Rana Chandar Singh" off course as a derogatory remark in the context of hindu origin of "Rana" title used by Rana Sanaullah.

Punjabi Mughals have family names like

1) Chughtai
2) Barlas
3) Baig
4) Mirza
5) Ghori
6) Kassar

What ever you say but kammi lohars , mistris and tarkhans are 100 % NOT mughal

 

[Multani]

You are right about "Rajput" part, even in recent episode of Lahore killings of TUQ supporters, one of the spokesperson of TUQ referred to Rana Sanaullah as "Rana Chandar Singh" off course as a derogatory remark in the context of hindu origin of "Rana" title used by Rana Sanaullah.



What ever you say but kammi lohars , mistris and tarkhans are 100 % NOT mughal

if they have family names of Mughals, then they are Mughal. If they are faking the family name, then they can easily be caught.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

You are right about "Rajput" part, even in recent episode of Lahore killings of TUQ supporters, one of the spokesperson of TUQ referred to Rana Sanaullah as "Rana Chandar Singh" off course as a derogatory remark in the context of hindu origin of "Rana" title used by Rana Sanaullah.

The ****...

remind me of Afghanis refering pakistanis as ranjeet singh lol

That tuq supporter should know tuq is origin jatt and he doesnt even claim anything else. In fact because of belonging to Sial jats, now he lies and claim to be family member of Heer hahahaha

That supporter most be another one of those self hating wannabes, what one can do but laugh.

 

[Shahmir]

if they have family names of Mughals, then they are Mughal. If they are faking the family name, then they can easily be caught.

Names are not important , their historical position in the society is the most important factor to determine their true origins.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

if they have family names of Mughals, then they are Mughal. If they are faking the family name, then they can easily be caught.

Yes we catch them as soon as kammi claim to be mughal. Very easy process.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

The only true mughals in Punjab are the Kassars of Chakwal and the "mirza" of Jhelum. I know a Kassar, who has visible mongoloid features but, though, not at the same level as to that of Uzbeks. Famous columnist Ayaz Amir is a kassar. There might be true mughals in other areas too, but a lot of nais and julahas wrongly claim to be mughals.

The Tanoli of Hazara also claim to be Barlas mughals, but they are thought by some to be a sub-caste of Janjua rajputs, which they themselves deny. They get wrongly identified as Pakhtuns. Their indo-aryan features are quite visible usually. Their neighbours in Muzaffarabad, the Khakha rajputs, are also janjuas.

And Marwat Khan, get your facts right. Both Deobandis and Barelvis are hanafi, but Pakistani deobandis can't be considered true hanafis as their madrassahs have been getting funded by gulf countries, which slowly seek to transform deobandism into salfism. Nowadays, there's hardly any difference between deobandis and salafis. Some extreme barelvis do questionable activities, but they are better and more humanist than all the other sects in Pakistan. Abdullah Shah Ghazi shrine and Data darbar in Lahore offers free food 24/7 to all the people. Deobandis and Salafis on the other hand though.. Almost every rich deobandi owns a land cruiser suv. I have never seen a deobandi helping the poor and needy.



They must have mixed with each other. Brahui(dravidians) and Baloch are genetically the same, yet speak totally different languages. Khans of Kalat are true brahuis.

As you know i live in abbotabad, tanolis identify themeselves as pathans and claim that they have migrated from Afghanistan, they are percieved as such in hazara. May be the scholar ones among them write in their books that they are barlas.