KENYA NAVY AND POSSIBLE F-22P AND/OR AGOSTA ACQUISITION

[Penguin]

The US has delivered F15Es only to its top allies. Supposedly these to Kenya are from Israel or Saudi Arabia. But Israel got F-15Is. The Ra'am is a special version of the F-15E Strike Eagle that was designed specifically for Israel by McDonnell Douglas (now Boeing). The plane - the best of its type in the Middle Eastern arena - entered service in January of 1998, and is the IAF's lead plane. The IAF ordered and operates 25: there simply is no way (35) F-15I could have come from Israel to Kenya. Even for the Saudi's, it would represent half their fleet of most modern and capable aircraft.

Saudi Arabia has 69 F-15S
South Korea has 45 F-15Ks
Singapore has 24 F-15SG
USAF has 221 F-15Es
Together with Israel, that is the list of operators of the F15E and derivatives.

The list of operators of single seat A/B/C/Ds is:
Israeli Air Force 43 F-15A/B/C/D (20 F-15A, 6 F-15B, 11 F-15C, and 6 F-15D)
Japan Air Self-Defense Force Mitsubishi F-15J and F-15DJ fighters.
Royal Saudi Air Force has 70 F-15C/D (49 F-15C and 21 F-15D) Eagles
United States Air Force 254 F-15C/D aircraft (222 in the Active Air Force and 32 in the ANG)

If F-15 was acquired from the US, there should be a congressional record. I have found none (and, trust me, I know where to look: US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) must notify Congress of any pending sale or transfer of surplus equipment to foreign military).

Note: there were/have been no sales of surplus F-15 at all, ever.

See also discussion: Kenya Defence Force - Page 13

Related, of interest: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL34003.pdf

 

[Penguin]

American People Sponsor Maritime Surveillance System in Tanzania
Besides ... you would be closely watched

 

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

First I thought he was kidding too, F-15E for Kenya? then digged on the Net; there are some forum talks about Kenya already receieved 8 F-15e, and people from "saairforce.co.za" and "the East African" forums claimed these links:
Kenya Defence Force - Page 15
Kenyanlist.com | A New Way To Kill Alshabab.... New Kenyan Jets F-15e
Kenya Air Force May Have Acquired 8 Israeli F-15 Strike Eagles « Strategic Intelligence News,
and Kenya Airforce to Use F-15E Fighter Aircraft. « Strategic Intelligence News, which both reported by a guy called "David Goldman"

However, then news found here indicated Kenya officals dismissed F-15e report. The purchasing included armored vehicles from Israel, but no F-15.

Kenya; Armored vehicles from Israel, F-15 reports dismissed.

As Penguin said, in order to get advanced aircraft like F-15E, you need to go through various stages, it can't just come through from thin air. Even 8 F-15E, are almost one third of entire Israili airforce inventory for their F-15I. Have all those pilots and ground support crews all decided to take some extended holidays?

Perhaps Kenya should consider buying some JF-17 from Pakistan? or perhaps some F-16 from Royal Netherlands Air Force? Since due to budget cuts, and also the Dutch is getting new toys like F-35, they should have plenty of F-16 in storage.

 

[revojam]

If Kenya Navy is looking for fast atack/patrol crafts for anti-piracy/anti-smuggling events then Yonca-Onuk is the answer , one of best providers for this kind of crafts.

120 km Hiza Cikabilen Turk Botlari-Onuk MRTP 16

Yonca Onuk Tan

 

[kenyannoobie]

KNS Jasiri ... is an OPV. Where will you put 2x(2+2) Otomat missiles (or 2x2, if you reserved the others for a 2nd unit to be built)? And, seeing as the Nyayo and consort have kept associated firecontrol equipments, how will the OPV target these missiles? There still is no real addressing of the issue of naval treat, requiring sea denial strategies! Finally, do you honestly think Kenya can scare e.g. the US fleet with 2 Otomat equipped OPVs, some corvettes and some coastal subs?) They'ld be sunk the second they left port (see Iraqi fleet / GW2)

It is in the same bracket as e.g. NS Elephant (S11), of the Namibian navy
Ports and Ships - Port news and Shipping Movements in African and Southern African Ports and Harbours
Sorry if that hurts your national pride.

Point taken but I think you misunderstand me. Few navies can take on the USN in conventional combat and hope to win. My point was to at least possess enough assets to make potential evildoers think very carefully. Seeing as how the NNS Elephant is chopper capable isn't it at least a half notch above the KNS Jasiri? National pride doesn't feature in this matter-only the facts;living in Africa makes you pragmatic.

First I thought he was kidding too, F-15E for Kenya? then digged on the Net; there are some forum talks about Kenya already receieved 8 F-15e, and people from "saairforce.co.za" and "the East African" forums claimed these links:
Kenya Defence Force - Page 15
Kenyanlist.com | A New Way To Kill Alshabab.... New Kenyan Jets F-15e
Kenya Air Force May Have Acquired 8 Israeli F-15 Strike Eagles « Strategic Intelligence News,
and Kenya Airforce to Use F-15E Fighter Aircraft. « Strategic Intelligence News, which both reported by a guy called "David Goldman"

However, then news found here indicated Kenya officals dismissed F-15e report. The purchasing included armored vehicles from Israel, but no F-15.

Kenya; Armored vehicles from Israel, F-15 reports dismissed.

As Penguin said, in order to get advanced aircraft like F-15E, you need to go through various stages, it can't just come through from thin air. Even 8 F-15E, are almost one third of entire Israili airforce inventory for their F-15I. Have all those pilots and ground support crews all decided to take some extended holidays?

Perhaps Kenya should consider buying some JF-17 from Pakistan? or perhaps some F-16 from Royal Netherlands Air Force? Since due to budget cuts, and also the Dutch is getting new toys like F-35, they should have plenty of F-16 in storage

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-f-22-agosta-acquisition-2.html#ixzz26nlk6Y50

Most of those Kenyan bloggers are talking out their arse! Btw,I've heard the jf-17 mentioned. Its to be inducted after the f15 ees which are in fact a stopgap. Fyi,I do know a supporting infrastructure is needed before delivery and not just flyboys,(look at the Uganda Airforce!)-its already in place. Lets just wait til we see a photo of an f15 in KAF livery and roundels;thats the only thing that will convince you guys.

 

[Penguin]

"potential evildoers"

Which potential evil doers? The neighbours do not have naval capability to speak of. So, with frigates and subs, or even with SSM armed OPV, for sea denial, you are de facto talking about South Africa, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, maybe Israel as potential evil doers. Don't see any of these countries making moves. THere appear no transnational issue with any of the countries that could pose a naval threat, according to CIA factbook. ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ke.html ). So, such purchases would warrent the label of 'prestige purchases'.

The F-15E is about as modern a US jet as is available to any non-US military, short of the new generation (F22,F35). You cannot be serious when talking about F15E as 'stop gap untill jf-17'....

NS Elephant is about 1000 tons heavier in displacement then KNS Jasiri. The vessel is equipped with a 37 mm naval gun and two 14.5 mm twin-barrelled machine guns. She has a deadweight of 2 500 tonnes and can carry 6 x 12 foot containers of 24 tonnes, six armed personnel carriers of 12 tonnes each, and at least 150 crewmembers. NS Elephant also has a landing deck for a large helicopter. It is described by Jane's Naval Construction and Retrofit Markets as resembling an offshore patrol vessel built on a frigate hull. It is like Jasiri in that it is a multi purpose patrol ship, however (Jasiri design is also oceanic research ship, not just patrol). Put differently, neither is designed as combat ship.

 

[Penguin]

 

[kenyannoobie]

Let me reply with some possible scenarios and perhaps you could fill me in on what you'd do if the purchasing was on your say-so. Firstly as I said our coastline is no longer constrained by the old borders,for all practical purposes it now begins at the Horn and ends in N.Mozambique.

We'd require to keep the increased sea area under normal patrol,piracy,illegal trawling etc etc. Also there is potential naval conflict. Early this year,N & S.Sudan nearly restarted their civil war. For all practical purposes,S.Sudan is economically and politically tied to our own national trajectory. Increasingly,also on the military level. Fyi,many of their officer corps are undergoing training here and if you recall the Ukrainian T-72 ship saga,you know we were handling the importation on their behalf.
In a real shooting war we must assist on land and on sea eg a naval blockade of their Red Sea coast to shut out arms shipments to their sole port,Port Sudan. There is also serious intra-African rivalry under the surface. South Africa is searching for continental relevance,thus far those efforts are mixed at best. They've been in Burundi and E. DRC peacekeeping with around a brigade for over a decade,but the geopolitical gains are yet to be realised. They've upped the ante sensing a Kenyan foray into the DRC in a post Somalia invasion period and are desperate not to be caught offside.

DR Congo is estimated to have $24 trillion (equivalent to the combined Gross Domestic Product of Europe and the United States) worth of untapped deposits of raw mineral ores, including the world’s largest reserves of cobalt and significant quantities of the world’s diamonds, gold and copper.[2][3] The m

Mining industry of the Democratic Republic of the Congo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If outflanked in these jungles its quite possible revanchist S.Africans may look seaward for a measure of revenge. Look at those figures again.
Please map out a purchasing program with these scenarios in mind. What mix of ships and tonnage would you recommend for sea denial,actual naval combat and safeguarding the much larger territory? The KN already has training programs with the RN,the US and other NATO countries.
For now your budget is 30% of this:
Kenya $62,480,000,000 83 2.8% 51 $1,749,440,000
Country GDP Rank %GDP MIL RANK TOTAL MIL SPENDING
This is projected to rise by 5% annually and when the Turkana and other Kenyan oil finds come onstream within 7 years may increase by a factor of 2.
I eagerly await your well considered response.

 

[Penguin]

If Kenya Navy is looking for fast atack/patrol crafts for anti-piracy/anti-smuggling events then Yonca-Onuk is the answer , one of best providers for this kind of crafts.

120 km Hiza Cikabilen Turk Botlari-Onuk MRTP 16

Yonca Onuk Tan

What's this, a commercial ?
;-)

 

[Penguin]

Let me reply with some possible scenarios and perhaps you could fill me in on what you'd do if the purchasing was on your say-so. Firstly as I said our coastline is no longer constrained by the old borders,for all practical purposes it now begins at the Horn and ends in N.Mozambique.

We'd require to keep the increased sea area under normal patrol,piracy,illegal trawling etc etc. Also there is potential naval conflict. Early this year,N & S.Sudan nearly restarted their civil war. For all practical purposes,S.Sudan is economically and politically tied to our own national trajectory. Increasingly,also on the military level. Fyi,many of their officer corps are undergoing training here and if you recall the Ukrainian T-72 ship saga,you know we were handling the importation on their behalf.
In a real shooting war we must assist on land and on sea eg a naval blockade of their Red Sea coast to shut out arms shipments to their sole port,Port Sudan. There is also serious intra-African rivalry under the surface. South Africa is searching for continental relevance,thus far those efforts are mixed at best. They've been in Burundi and E. DRC peacekeeping with around a brigade for over a decade,but the geopolitical gains are yet to be realised. They've upped the ante sensing a Kenyan foray into the DRC in a post Somalia invasion period and are desperate not to be caught offside.

Mining industry of the Democratic Republic of the Congo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If outflanked in these jungles its quite possible revanchist S.Africans may look seaward for a measure of revenge. Look at those figures again.
Please map out a purchasing program with these scenarios in mind. What mix of ships and tonnage would you recommend for sea denial,actual naval combat and safeguarding the much larger territory? The KN already has training programs with the RN,the US and other NATO countries.
For now your budget is 30% of this:
Kenya $62,480,000,000 83 2.8% 51 $1,749,440,000
Country GDP Rank %GDP MIL RANK TOTAL MIL SPENDING
This is projected to rise by 5% annually and when the Turkana and other Kenyan oil finds come onstream within 7 years may increase by a factor of 2.
I eagerly await your well considered response.

Again, as far a NAVAL threats, there are no navies to speak of (aside from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Israel) that might pose a threat to Kenya (and I don't see the afore mentioned countries involved in the potential conflicts outlined). So, anti-piracy and blockading would be the key functions.

Which means a range of ocean going patrol vessels, which stop well short of multipurpose frigates. Also considering the fact that it required considerable resources to acquire, crew and operate/maintain major surface ships and subs (particularly since they are not currently operated: start up costs, including building new land facilities, getting support vessels etc)

At the top end of the patrol ships, you might find something like the Dutch Holland class. Below an image with comparison to scal to an Dutch M (for Multipurpose) -class frigate. While the latter is faster and has all manner of fancy weapons, it requires 3x the number of crew, many of those simply to operate the weapons/sensors (i.e. more advanced training needed).

Four Holland vessels were acquired at a total cost of €467.8 million (2007 price). Today's cost: €120 million apiece, of which about €30 million is for the Integrated Mast from Thales. If and when needed, some AShM and active homing SAMs could be fitted (e.g. 2x2 MM40 plus a 6-round Sandral launcher for Mistral Manpads)

By comparison, the 2005 price of USED M-frigates

On December 21, 2005, the Dutch government signed an agreement to transfer two M Class frigates to Belgium, which will replace the country’s two 1970s vintage Wielingen Class frigates [N.B. en Francais]. The frigates transferred will reportedly be the F827 Karel Doorman and F829 Willem van der Zaan. Both ships were commissioned in 1991. They will be renamed (new names TBD) before entering service with the Belgian Navy between 2007-2008. David informs us that “the price for the M-class frigates is between EUR 110 and 120 million per ship, a total of EUR 220 to 240 million.” This tracks closely to DID’s July 2005 estimate of “about EUR 100 million per ship.”

Belgium Purchases NH-90 Helis, Iveco Trucks, Second-Hand Frigates

M-class
Displacement: 2,800 tons standard; 3,320 tons full load
Length: 401ft (122.3m)
Beam: 47ft (14.4m)
Draught: 20ft (6.1m)
Propulsion: CODAG 2 x Rolls Royce Spey 1A (16700 hp / 12.45 MW) gtu + 2 x Stork-Werkspoor (4895 hp /3.650 MW) diesel
Speed: 30 knots (54 km/h)
Complement: 154
Karel Doorman class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weapon

Holland class
Type: Offshore patrol vessel
Displacement: approx. 3,750 tons full load
Length: 108.4 metres
Beam: 16 metres
Draught: 4.55 metres
Propulsion: 2x MAN 12V28/33D diesel engines (5460KW each)
Speed: 21.5 kts
Complement: 50 (+ additional space for 40)
Holland class offshore patrol vessels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Information Dissemination: The Holland-class OPVs Will Need A Change
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-holland-class-offshore-patrol-model/594457

DCNs Gowind OPV might be another option.
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-model-gowind-offshore-patrol-vessels/635945
http://en.dcnsgroup.com/2011/05/18/dcns-met-a-flot-l’opv-gowind/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gowind_class_corvette

 

[Penguin]

By comparison F22P

Pakistan had been negotiating with China for the supply of 4 frigates since the late 1990s. The contract was signed on 4 April 2006 ... The $750 million contract also includes 4-6 Harbin Z-9EC anti-submarine warfare (ASW) helicopters [6] as well as ammunition for the frigates.

F-22P Zulfiquar class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unit cost of the Z9EC for PN is $11 million, so in that amount $44-66 million is helicopters
Pakistan Military Consortium :: www.PakDef.info

Factor in 2x (8 C802 AShM, 8+16 FM90N and some gun ammo) per ship ie 1 full load plus 1 reload:

C802 - Unit cost is around $800,000 to $850,000 per missile: total $39 million
A look on the possible price of some anti-ship missiles

FM90N - Unit cost is around $25,000 per missile : 4x48 missiles: total $4.8 million
HQ-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To round it out, throw in a bit for 30mm and 76mm gun ammo, ET/52C lightweight ASW torpedoes and RDC-32 anti-submarine rockets. Let´s say: total $6.2 million

$750m - ($39m + $4,8m +$6.2m) = $700m for 4 ships + 4-6 helicopters + technology transfer
$700-$65 = $635 for 4 ships + technology transfer

If you then allocate $35m for technology transfer you end up with a conservative estimate of the price of a single new F22P of $150 million, assuming you get the same deal as Pakistan (with its longstanding, intensive military/industrial cooperation with China) did. For this amount you get a new ship, with 1x 76mm gun, 2x 30mm gatling gun, 2x RL-ASW, 2x3 TR-ASW, 2x4 AShM, rail launched 8+16 SAM. By comparison to e.g. Dutch M-frigate, the F22P is a less modern design with less modern/capable sensors and command systems and lacking VLS. While F22P provides value for money, there clearly are trade-offs.

A NEW frigate like the M-frigate may well set a navy back some $300-$400 million.

On February 6, 2008,[11] Morocco signed a USD$1.2 billion contract with Schelde Naval Shipbuilding for two Light frigate SIGMA 9813 and one Light frigate SIGMA 10145 which are modified versions of the existing SIGMA Class design.

Sigma class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.naval-technology.com/news/newsmoroccan-navy-commissions-third-sigma-class-frigate

Related:
http://www.seaforces.org/marint/Netherlands-Navy/Offshore-Patrol-Vessel/Holland-class.htm
http://www.seaforces.org/marint/Netherlands-Navy/Frigate/Karel-Doorman-class.htm
http://www.seaforces.org/marint/Moroccan-Navy/F-613-RMNS-Tarik-Ben-Ziad.htm

 

[Nishan_101]

By comparison F22P

F-22P Zulfiquar class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unit cost of the Z9EC for PN is $11 million, so in that amount $44-66 million is helicopters
Pakistan Military Consortium :: www.PakDef.info

Factor in 2x (8 C802 AShM, 8+16 FM90N and some gun ammo) per ship ie 1 full load plus 1 reload:

C802 - Unit cost is around $800,000 to $850,000 per missile: total $39 million
A look on the possible price of some anti-ship missiles

FM90N - Unit cost is around $25,000 per missile : 4x48 missiles: total $4.8 million
HQ-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To round it out, throw in a bit for 30mm and 76mm gun ammo, ET/52C lightweight ASW torpedoes and RDC-32 anti-submarine rockets. Let´s say: total $6.2 million

$750m - ($39m + $4,8m +$6.2m) = $700m for 4 ships + 4-6 helicopters + technology transfer
$700-$65 = $635 for 4 ships + technology transfer

If you then allocate $35m for technology transfer you end up with a conservative estimate of the price of a single new F22P of $150 million, assuming you get the same deal as Pakistan (with its longstanding, intensive military/industrial cooperation with China) did. For this amount you get a new ship, with 1x 76mm gun, 2x 30mm gatling gun, 2x RL-ASW, 2x3 TR-ASW, 2x4 AShM, rail launched 8+16 SAM. By comparison to e.g. Dutch M-frigate, the F22P is a less modern design with less modern/capable sensors and command systems and lacking VLS. While F22P provides value for money, there clearly are trade-offs.

A NEW frigate like the M-frigate may well set a navy back some $300-$400 million.

Sigma class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moroccan Navy commissions its third SIGMA-class frigate - Naval Technology

Related:
Holland class Offshore Patrol Vessel OPV Royal Netherlands Navy
Karel Doorman Class Guided Missile Frigate - M-Fregat (Multipurpose-Frigate) - FFG
F-613 RMNS Tarik Ben Ziad SIGMA 10513 class frigate Moroccan Navy

I also wanted to say that PN should have done a JV with Chinese on the development on following equipments:
9-11 of 21000 Ton Tanker Utility Ship
21 of 3000-3300 Multi Mission Ton Frigates
21 of 1500-1700 Multi Mission Ton Corvettes
21 of 700 Ton Multi Mission FAC

 

[Penguin]

I think the Dutch navies should have 3 nuclear aircraft carriers... with escort groups and logistics vessels. Reality is we're down to 4 LCF, 2 M, 4 OPV, 4 SSK, 2 LPD and 2 AOR. And that's the way it will be....

 

[kenyannoobie]

Again, as far a NAVAL threats, there are no navies to speak of (aside from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Israel) that might pose a threat to Kenya (and I don't see the afore mentioned countries involved in the potential conflicts outlined). So, anti-piracy and blockading would be the key functions.

Which means a range of ocean going patrol vessels, which stop well short of multipurpose frigates. Also considering the fact that it required considerable resources to acquire, crew and operate/maintain major surface ships and subs (particularly since they are not currently operated: start up costs, including building new land facilities, getting support vessels etc)

At the top end of the patrol ships, you might find something like the Dutch Holland class. Below an image with comparison to scal to an Dutch M (for Multipurpose) -class frigate. While the latter is faster and has all manner of fancy weapons, it requires 3x the number of crew, many of those simply to operate the weapons/sensors (i.e. more advanced training needed).

Four Holland vessels were acquired at a total cost of €467.8 million (2007 price). Today's cost: €120 million apiece, of which about €30 million is for the Integrated Mast from Thales. If and when needed, some AShM and active homing SAMs could be fitted (e.g. 2x2 MM40 plus a 6-round Sandral launcher for Mistral Manpads)

By comparison, the 2005 price of USED M-frigates

Belgium Purchases NH-90 Helis, Iveco Trucks, Second-Hand Frigates

M-class
Displacement: 2,800 tons standard; 3,320 tons full load
Length: 401ft (122.3m)
Beam: 47ft (14.4m)
Draught: 20ft (6.1m)
Propulsion: CODAG 2 x Rolls Royce Spey 1A (16700 hp / 12.45 MW) gtu + 2 x Stork-Werkspoor (4895 hp /3.650 MW) diesel
Speed: 30 knots (54 km/h)
Complement: 154
Karel Doorman class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weapon

Holland class
Type: Offshore patrol vessel
Displacement: approx. 3,750 tons full load
Length: 108.4 metres
Beam: 16 metres
Draught: 4.55 metres
Propulsion: 2x MAN 12V28/33D diesel engines (5460KW each)
Speed: 21.5 kts
Complement: 50 (+ additional space for 40)
Holland class offshore patrol vessels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Information Dissemination: The Holland-class OPVs Will Need A Change
3d holland class offshore patrol model

DCNs Gowind OPV might be another option.
3d model gowind offshore patrol vessels
DCNS floats Gowind OPV | DCNS
Gowind class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You don't see any naval threats,but I insist the potential is there. Say Egypt and the Saudis have a converging interest in this scenario. The former over the Nile,which as you know they have threatened to go to war over,and we begin major irrigation projects with L.Vic waters(the plans are on paper since the 70s);while the latter lose out as major oil buyers prefer to buy S.Sudanese,Kenyan and maybe Ugandan hydrocarbons from Lamu once fully operational,to avoid the inherent ME risks.
In such a case needing serious deterrent firepower I doubt the Holland class type OPVs as is would cut it. Perhaps the Russian

Steregushchy-class corvette has been designed to destroy enemy surface ships, submarines and aircraft, in addition to providing artillery support for beach landings.

would be ideal.
Russian Navy unveils fourth Steregushchy-class corvette - Naval Technology
Holland is more of an upgraded cutter.Also the Steregushchy carries at least 8 supersonic Klubs which IMO, is why the US will never risk an Iran attack.Karanja'z Place: THE REAL REASON THE US WILL NEVER INVADE IRAN

Firstly,even if Washington wanted to attack the tactical situation would ensure a crushing defeat for the 5th fleet. A US Navy wargame had them losing 2 carriers,several cruisers and most of their flee

.
Going by your costing estimate formula the Stegushchy should be above the Holland in price at roughly 200-220 mn $. A 5 year deal to deliver 3 is manageable.

Or,is there something comparable in Western fleets with whom we already have existing programs?

Again, as far a NAVAL threats, there are no navies to speak of (aside from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Israel) that might pose a threat to Kenya (and I don't see the afore mentioned countries involved in the potential conflicts outlined). So, anti-piracy and blockading would be the key functions.

Which means a range of ocean going patrol vessels, which stop well short of multipurpose frigates. Also considering the fact that it required considerable resources to acquire, crew and operate/maintain major surface ships and subs (particularly since they are not currently operated: start up costs, including building new land facilities, getting support vessels etc)

At the top end of the patrol ships, you might find something like the Dutch Holland class. Below an image with comparison to scal to an Dutch M (for Multipurpose) -class frigate. While the latter is faster and has all manner of fancy weapons, it requires 3x the number of crew, many of those simply to operate the weapons/sensors (i.e. more advanced training needed).

Four Holland vessels were acquired at a total cost of €467.8 million (2007 price). Today's cost: €120 million apiece, of which about €30 million is for the Integrated Mast from Thales. If and when needed, some AShM and active homing SAMs could be fitted (e.g. 2x2 MM40 plus a 6-round Sandral launcher for Mistral Manpads)

By comparison, the 2005 price of USED M-frigates

Belgium Purchases NH-90 Helis, Iveco Trucks, Second-Hand Frigates

M-class
Displacement: 2,800 tons standard; 3,320 tons full load
Length: 401ft (122.3m)
Beam: 47ft (14.4m)
Draught: 20ft (6.1m)
Propulsion: CODAG 2 x Rolls Royce Spey 1A (16700 hp / 12.45 MW) gtu + 2 x Stork-Werkspoor (4895 hp /3.650 MW) diesel
Speed: 30 knots (54 km/h)
Complement: 154
Karel Doorman class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Weapon

Holland class
Type: Offshore patrol vessel
Displacement: approx. 3,750 tons full load
Length: 108.4 metres
Beam: 16 metres
Draught: 4.55 metres
Propulsion: 2x MAN 12V28/33D diesel engines (5460KW each)
Speed: 21.5 kts
Complement: 50 (+ additional space for 40)
Holland class offshore patrol vessels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Information Dissemination: The Holland-class OPVs Will Need A Change
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-holland-class-offshore-patrol-model/594457

DCNs Gowind OPV might be another option.
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-model-gowind-offshore-patrol-vessels/635945
http://en.dcnsgroup.com/2011/05/18/dcns-met-a-flot-l’opv-gowind/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gowind_class_corvette

You don't see any naval threats,but I insist the potential is there. Say Egypt and the Saudis have a converging interest in this scenario. The former over the Nile,which as you know they have threatened to go to war over,and we begin major irrigation projects with L.Vic waters(the plans are on paper since the 70s);while the latter lose out as major oil buyers prefer to buy S.Sudanese,Kenyan and maybe Ugandan hydrocarbons from Lamu once fully operational,to avoid the inherent ME risks.
In such a case needing serious deterrent firepower I doubt the Holland class type OPVs as is would cut it. Perhaps the Russian

Steregushchy-class corvette has been designed to destroy enemy surface ships, submarines and aircraft, in addition to providing artillery support for beach landings.

would be ideal.
http://www.naval-technology.com/news/newsrussian-navy-unveils-fourth-steregushchy-class-corvette/
Holland is more of an upgraded cutter.Also the Steregushchy carries at least 8 supersonic Klubs which IMO, is why the US will never risk an Iran attack.http://karanjazplace.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-real-reason-us-will-never-invade.html

Firstly,even if Washington wanted to attack the tactical situation would ensure a crushing defeat for the 5th fleet. A US Navy wargame had them losing 2 carriers,several cruisers and most of their flee

.
Going by your costing estimate formula the Stegushchy should be above the Holland in price at roughly 200-220 mn $. A 5 year deal to deliver 3 is manageable.

Or,is there something comparable in Western fleets with whom we already have existing programs? I've googled but can't find anything.

 

[Penguin]

You don't see any naval threats,but I insist the potential is there.

Governments don't spend b/millions on that basis.

In such a case needing serious deterrent firepower I doubt the Holland class type OPVs as is would cut it.

Nor could an F22P. Or even an ex-UK Type 22 batch 3 (assuming you got one of the four that are decommissioned, awaiting disposal)

the Russian would be ideal. Holland is more of an upgraded cutter. Also the Steregushchy carries at least 8 supersonic Klubs which IMO, is why the US will never risk an Iran attack.Karanja'z Place: THE REAL REASON THE US WILL NEVER INVADE IRAN

Good grief, .... in case you hadn't noticed:

The RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) is a development of the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow missile used to protect ships from attacking missiles and aircraft. ESSM is designed to counter supersonic maneuvering anti-ship missiles

RIM-162 ESSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TUCSON, Ariz., Aug. 2, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN) delivered the 2,000th Evolved SeaSparrow Missile to the NATO SeaSparrow Consortium.

Raytheon Evolved SeaSparrow program delivers 2,000th missile - Aug 2, 2012
Raytheon Company: Evolved SeaSparrow Missile (ESSM)

Practice against supersonic AShM has been available for some time.
Klubs No-Trump: the USA’s MSST Supersonic Target
GQM-163 SSST: A Tricky Coyote to Match Wits With Defenses
Orbital Sciences GQM-163 Coyote
Bendix RIM-8 Talos

Various navies can destroy supersonic AShM, including US, French and UK navies

On April 4, 2012, the Forbin Air Defense Destroyer destroyed a supersonic target simulating an antiship missile at very low altitude. The target, a GQM 163A Coyote, was launched from the French Military's Missile Test Center based on the island of Levant (French Riviera). The Forbin, head of Horizon class AAW Destroyer, intercepted the target in flight with its Aster 30 missile while Chevalier Paul, second ship of Horizon class, was tracking both the target and the missiles launched by Forbin

French Navy's Air Warfare Destroyers successfully intercept supersonic sea-skimming target

The [Phalanx CIWS] Block 1 (1988) upgrade offered various improvements in radar, ammunition, rate of fire, increasing engagement elevation to +70 degrees, and computing. These improvements were intended to increase the system's capability against emerging Russian supersonic anti-ship missiles

Phalanx CIWS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Supersonic missiles aren't invulnerable (we've dealt with supersonic planes!). Such missules are just difficult. Both Goalkeeper and Phalanx CAN deal with supersonic missiles (but the debris may hit the ship, hence the preference is shifting towards missile such as RAM and ESSM). Because of missile speed, reaction time is short, which translates to a need to detect and hit missiles at longer ranges (preferably at the launch platform). US Carriers are eminently suitable for taking out the platforms, at ranges well beyond 300km. Also, you'ld need information and information generating assets to target the missiles at ranges of 220-300km. THese too are vulnerable.

Carriers won't need to be in the Gulf to attack Iran... If anything is holding back the US from attacking Iran, it is not a few supersonic Klub missiles, but rather the fact that the US military is already heavily invested in both Iraq and Afghanistan and the economy (and therefor funding) is bad....

Klub: Iran, Vietnam, China, India, Algeria ... have them. USN can't / won't do nothing nowhere now? It is not necessarily the case that all operators have the 3M-54E1 member of the Klub family of missiles in service

Going by your costing estimate formula the Stegushchy should be above the Holland in price at roughly 200-220 mn $. A 5 year deal to deliver 3 is manageable.
Or,is there something comparable in Western fleets with whom we already have existing programs?

Unit Cost: US$120-150m (est. for Tigr)
Steregushchy class corvette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
It is similar in size to F22P (large corvette/small frigate). It is not particularly impressive, even with Club missiles. Compared to e.g. Milgem or K130. In all, IMHO, it would still be a waste of money, as your country's main threat is .... piracy.