Kazakhstan protests

[tower9]

Lool Dude the dispute of that barren rock is between you and Japan. If China gave up its claims and recognised Japan sovereignty over that barren rock relations with Japan would have been totally different from what they are today , since that disputes creates alot of enmity between both sides and stokes nationalism and hatred often between both sides. For one Japan wouldn't have been overtly hostile to China today and wouldn't join any alliances against China (especially not openly).
This has nothing to do with the US. And no Japaan is not a vassal of the US per se. Else they would do everything the US tell them and they would never have joined the RCEP in the first place since the US was vehemently against them joining. So you using the word vassal her is deceiving and oversimplification of what it really is.
If you guys can be so lenient with Russia who has caused far more long term loss of vast territory permanently from China, then why can't you let go of a small barren rock to have good relations with a far important economic and technology power like Japan?
If I was a Chinese leader that will be a logical thing to do. Lol Nothing much to lose, more to gain.

Japan is still constantly engaged in attempts to contain China. Also the enmity runs a lot deeper because Japan killed millions of Chinese civilians during their invasion of China and committed untold atrocities. Russia, on the other hand, just opportunistically seized remote and sparsely populated territories that were mostly occupied by Siberian tribal people and were not part of the Han Chinese core.

 

[mike2000 is back]

In the past, Japan used to be backward and inferior to China, they sent emissaries to China to learn culture and technology from China. After that, they began to repeatedly try to attack Korea and China, organize groups of bandits to raid the Chinese coast, invade China's interior.

By the 19th century, Japan began to learn from the West and became rich and civilized. The Japanese began the policy of expansion, attacking, pillaging, massacring China, and finally attacking and provoking the West.

World War II, Japan was defeated by the US, deprived of many territories, they were humiliated and raped by the Americans. Japan is very patient, they are learning from the Americans. The United States is their master now, but they will behead America if they have a chance to rise again.

Japan is a combination of GouJian and Lubu. Patience, calm and betrayal.

Lol Good thing you are going to the past to justify your current policy with Japan, I see this mindset alot with Asians .
Why not use that on Russia as well?lol Use the past Russia to also make your policy with them today. After all, they were an expansionist imperial power who caused so much harm and loss of territory to China as well . In fact more so than Japan, if anything funny enough China hasn't really lost any territory to Japan whatsoever , same can't be said of Russia.
So why not use that your logic towards both countries ? Or does it only apply to your East Asian neighbour Japan and not European Russia ?

 

[zhxy]

Japan is still constantly engaged in attempts to contain China. Also the enmity runs a lot deeper because Japan killed millions of Chinese civilians during their invasion of China and committed untold atrocities. Russia, on the other hand, just opportunistically seized remote and sparsely populated territories that were mostly occupied by Siberian tribal people and were not part of the Han Chinese core.

This is a paradox. During and after WW2, Russia and the US are very brutal when fighting Japan. They take away many Japanese territories, raping many Japanese women, torturing many citizens and Japanese soldiers /

But Japan does not hate Russia and the United States, they respect those two countries. But the same thing does not happen to China. Japan hates China and many times to try to provoke China

 

[Paul2]

This is a paradox. During and after WW2, Russia and the US are very brutal when fighting Japan. They take away many Japanese territories, raping many Japanese women, torturing many citizens and Japanese soldiers /

But Japan does not hate Russia and the United States, they respect those two countries. But the same thing does not happen to China. Japan hates China and many times to try to provoke China

If you whack somebody as Russians did to Germany, you will suffer an amnesia too.

 

[zhxy]

Lol Good thing you are going to the past to justify your current policy with Japan, I se ethics alot with Asians .
Why not use that on Russia as well?lol Use the past Russia to also make your policy with them today. After all, they were an expansionist imperial power who caused so much harm and loss of territory to China as well . In fact more so than Japan, if anything funny enough China hasn't really lost any territory to Japan whatsoever today, some can't be said of Russia.
So why not use that your logic towards both countries ? Or does it only apply to your East Asian neighbour Japan and not European Russia ?

LOL. So why don't you apply your logic to Japan. If Japan can respect and not try to provoke Russia and the United States when these two countries have a lot of Japanese territory after WW2, so why China was wrong, when the truth was the disputed territory between the two The country is much smaller than what Japan has lost by the US and Russia.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Fair points. I don't think we dispute that. You could also argue that Japan today is not an expansionist power as well. China should make peace with Japan and make concessions on that silly small barren rock/island spoiling relations between you and Japan. A silly rock that has been used by CCP now for decades to Stoke nationalism when it sees fit.
If China could make peace with Russia and recognise Russian sovereignty over former Chinese territories bigger than the whole of Japan, why can't you guys do the same with Japan over a small barren rock?

because Japan signed that rock away.

Potsdam Declaration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"That the "Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku, and such minor islands as we determine," as had been announced in the Cairo Declaration in 1943."

Surrender of those islands are a precondition of the post-war peace. Not surrendering external islands is revisionism and a revival of Japanese imperialism.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Japan is still constantly engaged in attempts to contain China. Also the enmity runs a lot deeper because Japan killed millions of Chinese civilians during their invasion of China and committed untold atrocities. Russia, on the other hand, just opportunistically seized remote and sparsely populated territories that were mostly occupied by Siberian tribal people and were not part of the Han Chinese core.

What type of logic is that? Russia didn't cause any harm to China ? Lool you guys losing PERMANENTLY vast land and territory the size of western Europe over unfair treaties to Russia is no harm? Lol Dude if that was no harm then I want even more harm.
Russia never committed any atrocities and harm during its occupation of Chinese territories ? Lol
You should probably read more about Russia's own occupation of manchuria and the atrocities Soviet troops also committed there, and how they dismantled the Manchurian industrial infrastructure built by the Japanese and took them back to their country when they left, leaving little to nothing to their "Chinese allies". Lol . This deprived Chiang Kai-shek's troops of a vital region of China, and gave Mao Zedong's Eighth Army the opportunity to establish bases in North East China(which was Stalins plan to undermine the Chinese government while furthering communist influence in China).

The Soviets were not angels. So you can't use that excuse of badder than bad to justify why you treat Japan and Russia (two imperial powers in the past) so differently . Lol

 

[tower9]

What type of logic is that? Russia didn't cause any harm to China ? Lool you guys losing PERMANENTLY vast land and territory the size of western Europe over unfair treaties to Russia is no harm? Lol Dude if that was no harm then I want even more harm.
Russia never committed any atrocities and harm during its occupation of Chinese territories ? Lol
You should probably read more about Russia's own occupation of manchuria and the atrocities Soviet troops also committed there, and how they dismantled the Manchurian industrial infrastructure built by the Japanese and took them back to their country when they left, leaving little to nothing to their "Chinese allies". Lol . This deprived Chiang Kai-shek's troops of a vital region of China, and gave Mao Zedong's Eighth Army the opportunity to establish bases in North East China(which was Stalins plan to undermine the Chinese government while furthering communist influence in China).

The Soviets were not angels. So you can't use that excuse of badder than bad to justify why you treat Japan and Russia (two imperial powers in the past) so differently . Lol

Your problem is that you are placing all the prerogative on fixing sino Japanese relations on China. You believe China is supposed to give up things in order to have a food relationship with Japan.

When the border situation between China and Russia was resolved, both countries did it in the spirit of building future relations.

 

[mike2000 is back]

LOL. So why don't you apply your logic to Japan. If Japan can respect and not try to provoke Russia and the United States when these two countries have a lot of Japanese territory after WW2, so why China was wrong, when the truth was the disputed territory between the two The country is much smaller than what Japan has lost by the US and Russia.

What are you on about? I don't get your point?
Who said Japan respects Russia anymore than China? They still have a dispute with Russia to this day over Russia's illegal invasion and annexation of Japan's Northern terroritories . They still claim that as their territory and frequently send planes to intercept Russian jets flying close to their territory. They still haven't signed a peace treaty with Russia even to this day. So I don't get what you are talking about
The only difference between China and Japan is that China has officially recognised Russia's former illegal annexation and seizure of former Chinese territory(I don't blame China here actually, sometimes we have to let go of the past for peace to prevail) but Japan hasn't done so yet.
So I don't understand what you are on about.

As for your last point, I don't even get what you are talking about. Why will Japan be against the US for taking Japanese territory? The US doesn't hold or claims any of Japan's territory unlike Russia, who claims and has officially annexed Japanese territory as their own and its recognised in their constitution.

 

[zhxy]

For those who believe that China should have a friendly attitude of Japan and abandon all territorial statements. China must be responsible for everything? Why not the opposite.

Why Japan does not give up the territorial claims and respect China more because they have ever attacked China many times, because the dispute territory is very small (if compared to what Russia and the United States have robbed Japan after WW2) and China are not cruel against Japan like Americans and Russia?

In contrast, Japanese people are loyal to the US, have a dispute but respect and avoid provoking Russians, and the same thing doesn't happen to China?

China recognizes the sovereignty of Japan, abandoning all claims= the two countries will have peace, Japan will respect China=>Bullshit logic.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Your problem is that you are placing all the prerogative on fixing sino Japanese relations on China. You believe China is supposed to give up things in order to have a food relationship with Japan.

When the border situation between China and Russia was resolved, both countries did it in the spirit of building future relations.

I'm putting more on China because the ball was more on China on this one. Since Japan was actually involved in China's opening up era and development . Japan financed alot of projects in China and had alot of aid projects in China which they stopped only a few years. So during that era, they wanted good relations with China, they even had some pro Chinese leaders at the time. However China never let go of claiming those barren rocks in the sea as theirs eventhough it has been under Japanese control for decades , since the CCP wanted to keep using it as a bargaining chip against Japan and for stoking nationalist sentiment in China as well. If not for the I see no reason why they maintained this claim over something so inconsequential when they have made far more larger concessions with other countries.
Japan was a good punching bag that's the issue. Unlike Russia who couldn't be used for that purpose for obvious reasons.

 

[zhxy]

I'm putting more on China because the ball was more on China on this one. Since Japan was actually involved in China's opening up era and development . Japan financed alot of projects in China and had alot of aid projects in China which they stopped only a few years. So during that era, they wanted good relations with China, they even had some pro Chinese leaders at the time. However China never let go of claiming those barren rocks in the sea as theirs eventhough it has been under Japanese control for decades , since the CCP wanted to keep using it as a bargaining chip against Japan and for stoking nationalist sentiment in China as well. If not for the I see no reason why they maintained this claim over something so inconsequential when they have made far more larger concessions with other countries.
Japan was a good punching bag that's the issue. Unlike Russia who couldn't be used for that purpose for obvious reasons.

All Japanese actions are based on Japan's interests first, not out of regret or remorse for any country. Japanese money is not free, it also comes with many conditions and constraints from the Japanese side. Next is that technology is also not freely and unconditionally shared, China only receives outdated-inefficient technologies, and the most common form of technology is the joint venture between the two countries, China becomes the consumption market of Japanese enterprises. In fact, not only Japan, but also European companies do the same. Industrial standardization, technology sharing... Japan has, so does Europe and America. And now the Japanese still dream that without them China would never modernize.
-Does Japan invest in China because they want China to become rich-modern or because they want their businesses to make a lot of money in China? If China does not have a large consumer market, low labor costs, will Japan accept investment-joint ventures with China?
- Japan wants to help and support China? If true, why would they send so many spies into China, even posing as economic experts, to infiltrate China's industrial and defense facilities?

Pictured is Hiromasa Ao, he pretends to be an economist, hides in China for 37 years, and was only caught in 2016

 

[tower9]

I'm putting more on China because the ball was more on China on this one. Since Japan was actually involved in China's opening up era and development . Japan financed alot of projects in China and had alot of aid projects in China which they stopped only a few years. So during that era, they wanted good relations with China, they even had some pro Chinese leaders at the time. However China never let go of claiming those barren rocks in the sea as theirs eventhough it has been under Japanese control for decades , since the CCP wanted to keep using it as a bargaining chip against Japan and for stoking nationalist sentiment in China as well. If not for the I see no reason why they maintained this claim over something so inconsequential when they have made far more larger concessions with other countries.
Japan was a good punching bag that's the issue. Unlike Russia who couldn't be used for that purpose for obvious reasons.

You’re giving Japan way too much credit. They invested in China for their own profit not out of good will. Japan is still actively engaging in covertly supporting the independence of Taiwan so it’s never even stopped interfering with chinas sovereignty so on what basis should China be ceding diaoyutai to Japan?

 

[Stranagor]

I be very doubt unlike our Chinese friends on here, Beijings reaction will be whole lot different in private, seeing putin seizing oil mineral rich Kazakhstan be under Russian influence for good

On Jan 7th, President Xi called Jomart Tokayev and assured full support against any color revolution attempt. China supports CSTO action to not allow Kazakhstan be under pro-US radicals' control.

Fair points. I don't think we dispute that. You could also argue that Japan today is not an expansionist power as well. China should make peace with Japan and make concessions on that silly small barren rock/island spoiling relations between you and Japan. A silly rock that has been used by CCP now for decades to Stoke nationalism when it sees fit.
If China could make peace with Russia and recognise Russian sovereignty over former Chinese territories bigger than the whole of Japan, why can't you guys do the same with Japan over a small barren rock?

Japan, too, needs to make concessions on those silly Dokdo and Kuril islands in instead of LDP stoking nationalism for its own sake.

Same can be said for almost all countries. UK should make concessions on Falklands, instead of serving some proto-fascists hardliners at home.

With that, the world would be cute and cuddly.

 

[Stranagor]

All Japanese actions are based on Japan's interests first, not out of regret or remorse for any country. Japanese money is not free, it also comes with many conditions and constraints from the Japanese side. Next is that technology is also not freely and unconditionally shared, China only receives outdated-inefficient technologies, and the most common form of technology is the joint venture between the two countries, China becomes the consumption market of Japanese enterprises. In fact, not only Japan, but also European companies do the same. Industrial standardization, technology sharing... Japan has, so does Europe and America. And now the Japanese still dream that without them China would never modernize.
-Does Japan invest in China because they want China to become rich-modern or because they want their businesses to make a lot of money in China? If China does not have a large consumer market, low labor costs, will Japan accept investment-joint ventures with China?
- Japan wants to help and support China? If true, why would they send so many spies into China, even posing as economic experts, to infiltrate China's industrial and defense facilities?

View attachment 806763
Pictured is Hiromasa Ao, he pretends to be an economist, hides in China for 37 years, and was only caught in 2016

Right on about JVs. For example, automobile JVs in China, although designed by the Chinese government to allow a certain tech and know-how transfer, have hardly done so. Especially with European JVs.

Instead, the foreign partner always introduced one generation old technologies and models to China market, both grabbing market share and earning profit, while globally ensuring domination.

This is probably why the government laxed JV rules and also domestic partners like to sell their stakes and do their own thing.