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Kaveri engine to fly futuristic unmanned aircraft

well, great, when is the car version coming out? Does it have an ejection seat if the engine fails.



First of all, I'm an American. I am not from China so I don't know what you mean by "your engine"

As for Ws-10 engine, there are several variation. you should query the Chinese guys about them. But be specific on the exact model because they are not all the same.

Well buddy WS-10 when failed become WS-10A which then failed become WS-10B , so get the Chinese model right

Ws-13- failed, Ws-13A came up and cited WS-13 is successful but we will use WS-13A/B etc.

I am just comparing the Technological challenge , apart from US , France, Europe, RUssia no other able to make good engine , India and China are trying and slowly will able to make it up.

So ask Chinese then came, BTW , you know India rejected F-16 and F-18 because they don't found it good of IAF as they not able to meed standard set by IAF .. oh man f-16 and f-18 now added in failed plane league..US should developed good planes
 
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The Problem is Indian Scientist try to make things themselves , it get late because of technical challenge but when they made it simply the best in the world out from no-where.

Remember Arjun MK-1 Simply defeated T-90, god's what Arjun MK-II will do.
 
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I would have to agree that India produce world class engineers but managed by a bunch of morons. As a result, the Kaveri project is a failure as it does not meet the initial goal of powering LCA. As for a research project, its a success as India learn that it had learned the lesson that it cannot build a modern engine for a modern plane. I would have to agree that LCA itself is also a learning project. The fact of MMRCA is needed speak volumes about the failure of this project.



You are seeing objectively. Only because It was unable to power LCA its failure. Its counldn't powered LCA coz LCA changed its requirement. PLease read my post again..

I agree with you LCA, Kaveri , Missiles, Arjuna, Arihant all are learning projects. LCA can be proved a good point defence role fighter which will meet many objective...

Kaveri is good enough to power LCA now. It can produce same power which GE404 can. But unfortunately IAF want more power. Kaveri can not improved to generate 20% more power in 2-3 years...
 
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INFO ON KAVERI ENGINE:

Introduction

Indigenous development of Kaveri Engine to power the Tejas aircraft was sanctioned on March 30, 1989 at a cost of Rs.382.81 Cr with a PDC of December 31, 1996. The cost of the project was revised to Rs.2839.00 Cr with PDC of December 2009. Further continuation of Kaveri project beyond the PDC has been approved by the Government within the sanctioned cost and scope.

So far, Rs.1996 Crore has been utilized in this project.

The engine remains under development but has been dropped as a prospective power plant for the LCA. It is now being developed as a technology demonstrator engine for the LCA. A dry thrust only variant of the Kaveri maybe used to power the Indian Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle (USAV). Also, more into the future, the Kaveri could be developed as the K-10 with the help of SNECMA to power the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).
History

Indigenous development of Kaveri Engine by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment(GTRE) to power the Tejas aircraft was sanctioned on March 30, 1989 at a cost of Rs 382.81 crore with a PDC of December 31, 1996.

Later, the GTRE secured an extension till March 2000, but once again failed to meet the revised deadline and was given time till December 2004.

The 2004 deadline was extended to December 2009 but GTRE failed to complete the project and opted for a JV with a foreign firm.

The engine remains under development and has been dropped as a prospective power plant for the LCA. It is now being considered for use on the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

The Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) in its 2010-11 report said that Rs 1,892 crores had been spent over two decades on the project, but the country ended up buying General Electric (GE) engines at a cost of Rs 883 crore to power the LCAs.

The project had overshot its budget by 642 per cent without any perceptible results.

The project underwent five revisions of cost, and saw a 1,013 per cent rise in its foreign exchange element since inception.

The CAG report chided Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) for having finally opted for a joint venture (JV) with a foreign partner, when the purpose of the Kaveri project was to indigenously develop a high performance jet engine for use on fighters.

Over the years the project has only met two out of the six milestones prescribed even after delaying the project for 12 years, it regrets.
Current Development Status

In December 2012, Flight magazine reported that GTRE planned to integrate the Kaveri engine with a Tejas aircraft within the next 9 months, and if the integration proves successful, a Kaveri powered Tejas could fly by the end of 2013.

In December 2012, ADA Chief PS Subramanyam told the Business Standard, "The PV-1 was originally built to support the Kaveri engine. While the engine, in its present form, would not suffice for the Tejas, a Kaveri "dry engine" could be used for one of the futuristic unmanned systems.”

The Kaveri engine is currently undergoing flight certification.

According to a GOI Press Release dated December 10, 2012, 9 prototypes of Kaveri Engine and 4 prototypes of Kabani (Core) Engine have been developed and 2200 hours of test (ground and altitude conditions) has been conducted.

The following two major milestones have been achieved:-
Successful completion of Official Altitude Testing (OAT); and
Demonstration of First Block of flight of Kaveri Engine in Flying Test Bed (FTB).
Kaveri Engine was integrated with IL-76 Aircraft at Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI), Russia and flight test was successfully carried out upto 12 km maximum altitude and maximum forward speed of 0.7 Mach No. Twenty Seven flights for 57 hours duration have been completed.

Flight trials for Technology Demonstration of Kaveri Engine with LCA Tejas Mk-I are expected to commence in about 3 years time.

A DRDO official told the press in August 2011:

"Nine prototypes of Kaveri engine and four prototypes of Kaveri Core (Kabini) engines have been developed with over 2,000 hours of testing...the engine is proven with almost 80 kilonewtons (kN) of thrust now."

Overweight, Underpowered


GTRE has already spent Rs 200 crores ($411 million) developing the engine since 1989, but the power plant is still overweight.

As in January 2011, the engine was developing 70-75 KN thrust against the IAF requirement of 93-100 KN.

Flight Testing Timeline


A Kaveri engine (K-9) was flight tested for the first time on November 3, 2010.

According to a DRDO press release dated November 4:

"The indigenously designed and developed Kaveri Engine was successfully flight tested by DRDO yesterday during the Flying Test Bed (FTB) Trials at Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI), Moscow, Russia. The engine was tested from take-off to landing and flew for a period of over one hour up to at an altitude of 6000m at a speed of 0.6 mach in its maiden flight. The engine control, engine performance and engine health during the flight were found to be excellent. With this test, Kaveri Engine has completed a major milestone of the development program. During the coming months further 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness. These trials would pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri Engine with a fighter aircraft.

An existing IL-76 aircraft was modified as a Flying Test Bed for this trial, with Kaveri engine replacing one of the four engines of the aircraft. The modifications included instrumentation required for trials as well as integration of mechanical, electrical and fuel system. The engine was controlled by the pilot from the cockpit. A number of taxi trials were carried out with Kaveri Engine integrated with the aircraft, before this maiden flight. The engine data was recorded in the aircraft as well as transmitted to ground station by telemetry."

A team of 20 scientists from Gas Turbine Research Establishment, DRDO, have been working along with GFRI for these trials. Dr Prahlada, Chief Controller, R&D (Aeronautics & Services Interaction) briefed the Media about the significance of the first flight.

During the coming months, 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness.

These trials will pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri engine with a fighter aircraft.
First Phase FTB Trials Successfully Completed

On May 2, 2011, DRDO announced that it had completed the first phase of flight testing - using a Flying Test Bed (FTB) Il-76 aircraft at Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI) in Russia - was successfully completed, DRDO announced on May 2, 2011.

The engine had logged 11 test sorties and 20 flight hours and had tested to a max altitude of 12 km and a max speed of 0.7 Mach.

The tests involved validating engine performance under different operating conditions of the engine.
Flight Testing Status on December 21, 2011

As on December 21, 2011:

The Kaveri engine had completed the first block of flight testing on the FTB, logging 27 sorties and 55 flight hours.

The Kaveri and Kabini engines had been tested for a total of 2050 hours at ground and altitude conditions for various requirements including performance, operability, endurance, environmental, etc.

Flight Testing Status on May 14, 2012

According to a GOI Press Release

Two important milestones of Kaveri project that had been successfully achieved by May 2012 were:

Completion of Official Altitude Testing for 73 hrs at Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM), Russia.
Flying Test Bed (FTB) trials for 55 hrs with IL-76 Aircraft conducted at Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI), Russia.

Endurance testing for about 2100 hrs has been conducted at Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE).
Technology Demonstrator

The Kaveri engine developed so far is being looked upon as a technology demonstrator. Following flight certification, it is planned to be tested on a LCA to demonstrate its compatibility with the aircraft, but will not be used on production variants of the aircraft.

Instead, GTRE will develop a production version of the Kaveri in collaboration with Snecma of France. The production variant of the engine is referred to as Kaveri K-10. It will be a 9 ton class engine.

Indian Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle (USAV) Power Plant

In August 2011, a DRDO official told the press that the indigenous Kaveri engine maybe used to power the India USAV currently under development.

According to the official, DRDO has also developed a marine Kaveri engine with 12 MW power output by "designing a free-power turbine to generate shaft power" for propulsion of warships in which the Navy has shown "a lot of interest."

"With Kaveri, we have proven several gas turbine technologies for a variety of applications. Indian Railways is also interested in knowing whether Kaveri can be used for powering trains," said the official.

In a statement in Parliament on December 10, 2012, Defense Minister AK Antony confirmed that a Kaveri variant could be used to power the Indian Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle (USAV).

On December 25, 2012, Business Standard reported that the Kaveri engine used that the decision to use the Kaveri as the USAV power plant was prompted by the engine's relatively good performance when operating without reheat.

During testing at the Gramov Flight Test Center, the Kaveri had demonstrated a dry thrust of 49.2 KN against a designed 51KN. With reheat the thrust deficit was substantial; 70.4 KN against the designed 81 KN.

UCAVs use unreheated engines inorder to minimize their heat and noise signatures. Also, the thrust requirement for the USAV is more modest.

"Since the USAV will weigh less than 10 tonnes, the Kaveri’s 50 KN will suffice. And, with the afterburner removed, we would significantly reduce the weight of the Kaveri," a top DRDO scientist told the Business Standard.

The DRDO plans to tweak the Kaveri to remove shortcomings noticed during its flight testing, ground test the engine at GTRE, send it back to Russia for flight testing and certification, and then fit it on LCA PV1 for more flight testing.

"After extensive ground testing at GTRE, the Kaveri will go back to Russia for flight-testing to ascertain that all the problems have been solved. This is essential for airworthiness certification. Finally, we will test the Kaveri in the single-engine Tejas fighter," said Dr CP Ramnarayanan, Director, GTRE.

GTRE has sought sanction of Rs 595 crore from MoD for developing the "dry thrust only" versions of the Kaveri engines. The money will be utilized to build two prototypes at a cost of Rs 50 crore each and send them to Russia for flight testing, which cost Rs 80 crore in 2010-11 and is likely to cost even more now.

“We will take 48 months from the date we get clearance from the government, for completing 50 hours of testing the Kaveri on the Tejas LCA. During the last 12 months, we will actually fly the Tejas with the Kaveri,” added Ramnarayanan.

Snecma - Kaveri / Kaveri K-10

In 2009, DRDO offered to co-develop and co-produce 90 kN thrust class upgraded Kaveri engine with M/s Snecma, France, within 48 months from the date of project inception.

DRDO and M/s Snecma will be jointly responsible for engine design, development, flight trials and certification in Tejas.

The modified Kaveri engine will match the performance of the F414 and EJ2000 throughout the flight envelope of Tejas.

Minimum changes are required in the airframe to integrate this engine without affecting the weight and configuration of Tejas.

The proposed engine will be based on Snecma's ‘Eco’ engine core.

Snecma, which had earlier indicated that TOT for the core may take 15 years, now believes it can be done in 5 years. It proposes a minimum production run of 250 engines to make the joint venture viable.

The Indian Air Force is inclined towards a proven engine that is already in production and flight worthy for meeting immediate requirement.

Snecma M88 ECO

The M88 ECO is a development of the M88-2 engine which powers the French Rafale. The M88-2 has a thrust of 50 to 75 kN and full authority digital engine control (FADEC) for carefree handling anywhere in its operating envelope.

M88 ECO is a technology demonstrator now under test, designed to reduce the M88-2’s cost of ownership and increase its thrust to 9 tons (19,800 lb).

Government nod for Snecma - GTRE tie up

On December 14, 2009, Defense Minister Shri AK Antony, told the Lok Sabha in a written reply that the proposal on the Kaveri-Snecma engine joint venture for LCA Tejas continues to be under consideration.

In late December 2009, GTRE officials told The Hindu that the government had given the go-ahead to pursue the joint venture option and talks with Snecma “could start early next year.”

The government nod followed a backtracking by the IAF on its opposition to the engine based on the recommendations of a team, headed by Air Vice-Marshal M. Matheswaran. The team, which included officials from the ADA, the IAF and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, submitted a report that stated that an engine developed jointly by Snecma and the GTRE would not meet the IAF’s performance requirements.

The IAF had earlier also sought the delinking of the Kaveri and Tejas project.
Being Developed as AMCA Powerplant with Snecma Help

In January 2011 a senior MOD official told PTI that the Kaveri engine has been dropped as a prospective power plant for Tejas Mk II. Instead, the engine will now be developed to power the twin engined Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), which is expected to be ready by 2016-17.

The official also confirmed that the tie up with Snecma was in place.

"I think with the JV with Snecma in place now, we would be able to achieve these parameters in near future," the official told PTI.

The GOI told Parliament on February 22, 2011.

"It is proposed to develop production version Kaveri (K10) engine on co-design & co-development basis with M/s Snecma, France. The technical evaluation for this proposal has been completed. Tender Purchase Committee (TPC) with members from DRDO, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Indian Air Force (IAF), Indian Navy (IN) and Integrated Finance (R&D) is negotiating the commercial aspects."
Snecma - Kaveri Project Status

In a written reply to a question in the Lok Sabha on November 22, 2011 Defense Minister Shri A.K. Antony told an MP that DRDO "is negotiating with M/s SNECMA, France for co-development and co-production of Kaveri Aero Engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mk-II."

In a written reply to a question in the Lok Sabha on August 8, 2011 Defense Minister Shri A.K. Antony clarified that DRDO is yet to enter into an agreement with Snecma for developing the Kaveri K10 engine.

"However, DRDO is negotiating with M/s Snecma, France for co-development and co-production of Kaveri aero engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas MK-II. The project proposal will be put up for Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approval after the completion of price negotiation.

"Indian Air Force (IAF) has been consulted at every stage and is part of negotiation. IAF has cleared the Kaveri engine co-development proposal with M/s Snecma, France. The draft engine technical specification has been examined and cleared by IAF. IAF has further suggested that the engine design should have minimal impact on the LCA Tejas airframe for future retrofitment."

Modified Kaveri Engine for Indian Navy Ships

In July 2008, DRDO tested a marine version of the Kaveri engine on the Marine Gas Turbine test bed at Naval Dock Yard, Vishakapatnam. The Indian Navy facility is capable of testing Gas Turbines upto 25 MW of shaft power through a reduction gearbox and a water brake dynamometer.

The Kaveri derivative, called the Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine (KMGT), was tested to its potential of 12 MW at ISA SL 35°C condition which is the requirement of Indian Navy for propelling the SNF (Rajput) class of ships.

The engine was demonstrated to the Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh and others including the Scientific Advisor to Raksha Mantri Shri M. Natarajan, Vice Admiral B.S.Randhawa, Dr. D.Banerjee, CC (R&D).

For the marine engine derivative, GTRE scientists used the Kaveri core, added Low Pressure Compressor & Turbine as a gas generator and designed a Free Power Turbine to generate shaft Power for the maritime application.

Kaveri Jet Engine - IDP Sentinel
 
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The Problem is Indian Scientist try to make things themselves , it get late because of technical challenge but when they made it simply the best in the world out from no-where.

Remember Arjun MK-1 Simply defeated T-90, god's what Arjun MK-II will do.

Arjun defeated T-90? according to whom? india still plan to build/buy thousands of T-90 because it is far better than a joke called Arjun.

Arjun is dead, MK-II is just another wet dream by some indian nationalists.

what a joke.

LCA keeps changing requirement because it is a 30 years old design, it has to change so it can keep up with the absolute minimum requirement for a 2012 air force.

The root cause is never the change of requirement itself, the root cause is always the fact that indians can't honstly declare the LCA project dead.

Sure, LCA can fly and fire a few missiles. The question here is it can JF-17 at best, JF-17 is a rubbish that has no place in PLAAF ever and it is already in PAKAF for like 5 years. When LCA will be ready to handle JF-17? In another 10 years?
 
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I would have to agree that India produce world class engineers but managed by a bunch of morons. As a result, the Kaveri project is a failure as it does not meet the initial goal of powering LCA. As for a research project, its a success as India learn that it had learned the lesson that it cannot build a modern engine for a modern plane. I would have to agree that LCA itself is also a learning project. The fact of MMRCA is needed speak volumes about the failure of this project.
India learned the lesson, and it will be sucessfull and flying its UCAV.
Were as china copied and learn that it had learned the lesson that it cannot build a modern engine for a modern plane.
and now importing from Russia. what a pitty.

I can't be happier when I heard this - another 3 years wasting of time and money on this dead engine and LCA.

Why you r wasting your J11 then??????????.better use Russian engine for them too,
 
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Arjun defeated T-90? according to whom? india still plan to build/buy thousands of T-90 because it is far better than a joke called Arjun.

Arjun is dead, MK-II is just another wet dream by some indian nationalists.

what a joke.

LCA keeps changing requirement because it is a 30 years old design, it has to change so it can keep up with the absolute minimum requirement for a 2012 air force.

The root cause is never the change of requirement itself, the root cause is always the fact that indians can't honstly declare the LCA project dead.

Sure, LCA can fly and fire a few missiles. The question here is it can JF-17 at best, JF-17 is a rubbish that has no place in PLAAF ever and it is already in PAKAF for like 5 years. When LCA will be ready to handle JF-17? In another 10 years?

Well Army conducted trials between T90 and Arjun , in that given the result . Army is not ordered any new T-90 at all and Arjun is now started getting place in army . See the combat result, this will improve your knowledge about present day.

Well LCA is well advance in terms of technology, When it inducted in IAF, it will at par of best plane in world.

Well when you make JF-17 Block-11 , then you are able to reach the present LCA configuration which is going to induct with IAF. :)). till then use sub standard planes, as one dont have any choice.


The Day when US declared that their F-16 /F-18 which Taiwan considered for buying is failed plane ,India will declared Kaveri is dead. its upto US to say that.:))

The Fact that F-16/F-18 failed in India , what failed plane world is flying , out right rejected by IAF ......not worthy.

BTW is Taiwan still buying failed F-16?? and why so?

I can't be happier when I heard this - another 3 years wasting of time and money on this dead engine and LCA.

Ask why Taiwan interested in buying failed PLane called F-16. what a waist of money.
 
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It's funny to see Chinese and Indians fighting although it's very obvious that both countries are facing the similar problems.
Kaveri is a failure as much as WS 13, since both engines currently can't offer the performance, for what they were developed for, to power LCA and JF17.
The difference however is, that China was smart enough to not link both developments of with eachother. That took away the pressure from the engine development, since the fighter development worked out with a proven foreign engine as well.
That's where we really failed, because we directly applied it to LCA from the start, as a result both developments suffered.

China has already integrated WS 13 to JF 17 for ground tests, India now plans to do the same with Kaveri, although both fighters won't use these engines in their current form.
China now aims to export it most likely with JF 17 Block 3 and J31, while India aims to use Kaveri K9 for Aura UCAV, while the K10 could be used for LCA MLU and AMCA.

To sum it up, both engines are at similar stages of their development, both can't be used for their initial plattforms, both will have different applications in future, both will make China and India more independent from foreign countries.
 
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I can't be happier when I heard this - another 3 years wasting of time and money on this dead engine and LCA.

That will still only make 25 years in development with no prior experience in engine making.

Compare that to the chinese engine , with all former experience from cancelled engines , copying ,stealing , 40 years in development still a failure.
 
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well, great, when is the car version coming out? Does it have an ejection seat if the engine fails.

Never knew chinese cars came with ejection seat . But when compared to quality of chinese cars that is understandable.
 
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The fact of the matter is Kaveri has been a failed engine all along. It was designed to power LCA and is any LCA being powered by it? No. So it has failed its intended goal. Will it be used to power LCA in the future? No. Your country has given up on it and trying to buy from us. Has it ever been inducted in any shape or form? No. Has it even been certified as completed? No. Has it even been extensively tested? No. Only fired for couple minutes in high altitude. No matter how you look at it, it has fail written all over it.

You didn't even deserve a reply still you made a statement so doña reply you
- Same failed Kaveri is going to power one of test LSP early 2013. 2/3 threads already posted here. Hit search. So that cut off your first claims
- Indo-French engine JV is on same Kaveri core so they are going to power AMCA and LCA MK2 in MLU. Yes they will replace the GE engine in MLU
All this info isn't hard to find but you choose otherwise.
 
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You didn't even deserve a reply still you made a statement so doña reply you
- Same failed Kaveri is going to power one of test LSP early 2013. 2/3 threads already posted here. Hit search. So that cut off your first claims
- Indo-French engine JV is on same Kaveri core so they are going to power AMCA and LCA MK2 in MLU. Yes they will replace the GE engine in MLU
All this info isn't hard to find but you choose otherwise.

So in another word, the French is rebuilding a new engine and it will be called Kavari. So the original Kavari is dead but a new engine is called Kavari is created to convince the gullible that Kavari is now a successful project.
 
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So in another word, the French is rebuilding a new engine and it will be called Kavari. So the original Kavari is dead but a new engine is called Kavari is created to convince the gullible that Kavari is now a successful project.
Nope buddy. They will be consulted and may provide expertise to address the thrust issues and other problems. Kaveri isn't a failure but it doesn't met IAF requirement. It is also being studied to be used in other fields too.

The difference is we developed an engine but it didn't met the requirements so it was separated from the LCA program. Kaveri program was never shut down.
 
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