KAVERI ENGINE by GTRE (CASE STUDY)

[sancho]

But 95 kN would still be less than 105+ kN which the GEF414 generates hence its better to leave kaveri to power a twin engine aircraft..... where two smaller engines could do the job...... unlike tejas MK2 which would house a bigger GEF414...... remember M-88 on rafale smoke out only 75 kN in wet thrust however it is abou 100kgs lighter than kaveri..... perhaps.

The GE 414 engine in the F18SH 98kN AB thrust, the same engine in the single engine Gripen NG produces 96kN AB thrust and the LCA MK2 engine will be similar to these versions. The EPE engine upgrade could offer 117kN but needs dedicated funding and further developments, which IAF didn't even accepted for the F18SH in MMRCA, let alone for LCA MK2, so that is out of question and don't forget to put the thrust into relation to the weight!
One of Kaveris biggest problems was reportedly the overweight and not only the lack of thrust, because that results in a lower TWR than needed. Some reports stated it to weight more than 1100Kg, which would be comparable to the GE engine, but with far lower thrust. Compared to the M88 on the other side, the Kaveri might offer similar thrust (depending on source), but at a higher weight, because the French engine weighs less than 900Kg only! So the co-development with the French could not only help us to increase the thrust of Kaveri, but also to get more control of the weight problems of the engine, just like we chose EADS as a consultant to counter LCAs general weight issues.

Oh btw, one point we should keep in mind as well is, that these fighters normaly don't fly with afterburner turned on all the time, which means that the thrust difference between an GE 414 and M88-2 in AB thrust might be 23kN, but in dry thrust (or normal flight) only around 12kN!

 

[DARKY]

The GE 414 engine in the F18SH 98kN AB thrust, the same engine in the single engine Gripen NG produces 96kN AB thrust and the LCA MK2 engine will be similar to these versions. The EPE engine upgrade could offer 117kN but needs dedicated funding and further developments, which IAF didn't even accepted for the F18SH in MMRCA, let alone for LCA MK2, so that is out of question and don't forget to put the thrust into relation to the weight!
One of Kaveris biggest problems was reportedly the overweight and not only the lack of thrust, because that results in a lower TWR than needed. Some reports stated it to weight more than 1100Kg, which would be comparable to the GE engine, but with far lower thrust. Compared to the M88 on the other side, the Kaveri might offer similar thrust (depending on source), but at a higher weight, because the French engine weighs less than 900Kg only! So the co-development with the French could not only help us to increase the thrust of Kaveri, but also to get more control of the weight problems of the engine, just like we chose EADS as a consultant to counter LCAs general weight issues.

Oh btw, one point we should keep in mind as well is, that these fighters normaly don't fly with afterburner turned on all the time, which means that the thrust difference between an GE 414 and M88-2 in AB thrust might be 23kN, but in dry thrust (or normal flight) only around 12kN!

The one being offered for Tejas is considered to be around 100 kN perhaps if not more in full AB mode......... and the military thrust would be enough to make it supercruise with that load if tad bit changes are made in the wing shaping and design..... a crucial asset to have which would add another dimension to the combat capabilities, range, fuel efficiency, engine life etc.... plus increasing the range of missiles.... and instigating higher maneuverability at supersonic speeds.

The Initial Kaveri was around 1150 kg perhaps...... so they must have reduced around 50-80 kg with newer blades and composites etc.... however if 900kg level of M-88 is achieved...... it would be a lot better.

Yes most of the flight is done on military thrust no airplane can afford to burn all its fuel only in few hundred Kms unless its urgent kind of situation.

Even on that note Kaveri has shown similar abilities with that of western engines..... producing higher dry thrust than its eastern and Russian counterparts...... one of the big reason the program is being perused upon.

 

[DARKY]

Indians are wasting both time & money on this project
it is better that Indian choose any Russian engine which they already have,at solo write
or try to get European engine at solo right
on the other side china ws-10,13,15,18 series engines facing performance issue but some media reports says that ws-13 is totaly active and ws-10 is in last stages

You should better advice that to your Chinese friends who are wasting 10 billion US $$ to attain some thing like Kaveri on a larger scale to power their 5th generation fighter.

 

[sancho]

The one being offered for Tejas is considered to be around 100 kN perhaps if not more in full AB mode......... and the military thrust would be enough to make it supercruise with that load if tad bit changes are made in the wing shaping and design

So far I didn't saw a single reliable source that said anything about the thrust of the engine and SC is dependend on the aerodynamics of the fighter as well and again, no official source (IAF/ADA/DRDO/HAL) talked about SC for LCA MK2.
There is simply too much unknown, or unfixed in the specs and changes of the MK2 yet!

 

[DARKY]

So far I didn't saw a single reliable source that said anything about the thrust of the engine and SC is dependend on the aerodynamics of the fighter as well and again, no official source (IAF/ADA/DRDO/HAL) talked about SC for LCA MK2.
There is simply too much unknown, or unfixed in the specs and changes of the MK2 yet!

Gripen does SC with all that weight and additional Canards....... I don't see why its not possible with Tejas with a bit of higher thrust and same engine ........ official source does not tell every thing........ We have an Indigenous AESA being developed for fighter planes....... but Tejas MK2 was never associated with it.....rather it says about the Israeli radar.......

 

[1nd1a]

DRDO-Snecma Tie-up On Kaveri Still In Talks

The Indian MoD made the following statement in Parliament today about the Kaveri turbofan engine programme: "The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has made no agreement with a French firm to develop the Kaveri aero engine to be used for the Light Combat Aircraft, Tejas. However, DRDO is negotiating with M/s Snecma, France for co-development and co-production of Kaveri aero engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mk.2. The project proposal will be put up for Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approval after the completion of price negotiation. Indian Air Force (IAF) has been consulted at every stage and is part of negotiation. IAF has cleared the Kaveri engine co-development proposal with M/s Snecma, France. The draft engine technical specification has been examined and cleared by IAF. IAF has further suggested that the engine design should have minimal impact on the LCA Tejas airframe for future retrofitment."

In September last year, the DRDO/ADA officially announced that they had chosen the GE F414 engine to power the Tejas Mk.2. GE later announced that they would be supplying 99 engines to the Mk.2 effort. In January this year, the IAF revealed that it had projected a need for 83 Tejas fighters in the Mk.2 configuration. As things stand, the Kaveri is officially de-linked from the Tejas programme, and is aimed at the fifth generation AMCA effort and India's classified AURA stealth UCAV programme.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

DRDO-Snecma Tie-up On Kaveri Still In Talks

The Indian MoD made the following statement in Parliament today about the Kaveri turbofan engine programme: "The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has made no agreement with a French firm to develop the Kaveri aero engine to be used for the Light Combat Aircraft, Tejas. However, DRDO is negotiating with M/s Snecma, France for co-development and co-production of Kaveri aero engine for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mk.2. The project proposal will be put up for Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approval after the completion of price negotiation. Indian Air Force (IAF) has been consulted at every stage and is part of negotiation. IAF has cleared the Kaveri engine co-development proposal with M/s Snecma, France. The draft engine technical specification has been examined and cleared by IAF. IAF has further suggested that the engine design should have minimal impact on the LCA Tejas airframe for future retrofitment."

In September last year, the DRDO/ADA officially announced that they had chosen the GE F414 engine to power the Tejas Mk.2. GE later announced that they would be supplying 99 engines to the Mk.2 effort. In January this year, the IAF revealed that it had projected a need for 83 Tejas fighters in the Mk.2 configuration. As things stand, the Kaveri is officially de-linked from the Tejas programme, and is aimed at the fifth generation AMCA effort and India's classified AURA stealth UCAV programme.

So still nothing has started in practical...