Kashmir ultimate issue to be resolved between India and Pakistan: U.S.

[The Clarifier]

Are you willing to lose Pakistani lives that are threatened by terrorists?
Do you want talibanization of Pakistan, a country with majority of moderate Muslims?

How hard is it to understand that we are helping Pakistan to get rid of the cancer?

Taliban operations in Pakistan began after the war.

Tehrik-e-Taliban| Active December 2007 – Present

There simply was no cancer. And don't use the Afghan 'human rights' issue, they were suffering since 1981 and if America really cared, they would've accepted the Taliban government and actually changed it, as Musharraf said. Listen, I don't know how much you know about terrorism and radicalization in Pakistan, but Taliban has existed for almost 3 decades now and the idea of 'Talibanization' trickled into the tribal society during this war.

There is simply no cancer to BEGIN with, but it is being CREATED by the war on terror.

Now, please, tell us what we, Pakistanis, have achieved from this war?

Oh, and by the way, Pakistani civilian blood is on American hands too.

 

[deckingraj]

Raj,Easier said then done,

and neither i claim it to be easy...One has to be nuts to believe that solution for a 6 decades old problem can be simple and easy...

honestly I am all for love, in my entire life I have not harmed anyone and neither I have any such intentions.

Good to know about it...Keep up the good work!!!

The problem is I feel that while India is doing lot in Kashmir we are not getting any response and sometime harsh steps are needed.

That is where my friend you are mistaken...India is certainly not doing enough in Kashmir....Keep in mind these are the same Kashmiri's who sided with India when Pakistan invaded Kashmir in 65, no??? There were no reports of violence till late 80's and then suddenly valley started burning...No doubt Pak has a hand to play however can you or i deny how much people turned against us when GOI out of sheer nervousness rigged elections in Kashmir???? That was a big blunder and i am afraid we have not learned a lot from it....Every period of lull in kashmir is considered to be peace which is not right....We need to mend our ways, we need to engage Kashmiris as much as we can....Iron hand will derive them further away from us....Look We(read indians) need to understand that our very own netizens in Kashmir have lot of grudge against GOI because of many reasons(some valid and some invalid)...The more the bullets you will fire the more this grudge will increase which can/is being exploited by our well-wishers(pun intended)...

So yes no matter how alien it sounds but we need to use brain with brawn...IMHO the real problem is that Kashmir is a non-issue in our internal politics and therefore there is no real political will to fix it.....We have enough Army men out there to keep it working...i mean how much rest of india was impacted when the whole kashmir valley was at standstill for months???? The typical "chalta hai" indian attitude is getting better of us which is not right....If political class want they can come up with some sort of compromise formulae which will help a lot to bring life back in Kashmir....but alas that seems to be a distant dream...

I am all for good steps if it gets result, but if people just resort to stone pelting and violence sorry I cannot empethize with them.

Look a political problem can only have a political solution..Anything else is doomed to fail or have huge collateral...No doubt Iron hand can also bring in results...Recently Sri Lankan army was able to get rid of LTTE but at what cost the less we talk the better it is...I no way would like any citizens of my country killed by soldiers of most respected institution of my country....My pride, my love my very own Indian Army!!!!

 

[Hulk]

Raj.
Thank for your interest in topic. I have few questions.
What is the reason of current unrest? I do not see India doing anything wrong now. India is trying to be as flexible as possible but people are just not cooperating with GOI and specifically in the valley. If they want Army/Forces to be removed, they should help the process. They can get things done if they talk, GOI is asking what do you want and in reply all I hear is violance and distruction.

So please guide, how this can be done.

What I meant in short was this, both India and speeratist in valley are rigide in their position. So there is a deadlock, in order to break the deadlock, one party should reach the threshold. So all I was asking it was ways to reach the threshold faster. Why do protest in installment and keep it dragging. Do it day in and day out and settle it either ways.

 

[The Clarifier]

We are doing your nasty work. You sit, watch and criticize. Do you remember how Taliban hijacked an Indian plane ? If Taliban is left unattended, they will toast Indian as* like a roast beef

So now you are saying this war is no benefit to us? Where was America when India was blowing up everything in Pakistan in 1979? Please enlighten me. We don't 'sit, watch and criticize'. How can you say that when we have lost more than you have?

Oh, and you left off another hint. US wants Pakistan to destroy the Taliban and you suggest that India won't be able to cope with it.

See, why doesn't America ask India to deal with its own problems instead of getting us to do it?

 

[deckingraj]

Raj.Thank for your interest in topic. I have few questions.

You are welcome bro and feel free to ask as many questions as you have....

What is the reason of current unrest?

That's a good question, however if you want to know the answer you have to go back to late 80's...Kashmir is a very complex problem with so many parties involved...We have to understand that there is a sentiment of Azadi in Kashmir and we just cannot ignore it....it was the same sentiment that pushed people to take up arms, it is the same sentiment that pushed people to take stones....And GOI played a part in making people loose faith in system by rigging elections...No doubt in between Pak kept on meddling the affairs however there is no smoke without fire.....Pak has been able to exploit sentiments because there are anti-india sentiments....See It is easy to say that current unrest or unrest in the past are ISI creation and what not but they are half truths...Separatist do have a suport in Valley which you and i might not like but is fact....

If you look back and analyze how the events unfolded you will realize how much Kashmir has transformed...As said in the previous post these are the same Kashmiri's who informed our forces about Pak attack in the valley....All this transformation simply suggest that GOI has been sinister in the past(to what level is debatable).....See we cannot deny that it is our PM who promised Kashmiris about refrendum...right??? So i do not see anything wrong if a common Kashmiri is asking for the same refrendum. Mind it i don't like that sentiment however i don't see anything wrong in their demand. I will touch on this topic again when i will talk about steps that GOI should take......

We should also keep in mind that even though kashmiri separatist deny yet IMHO kashmir struggle is more ethnic than regional.....Sentiments are more strong in Valley than Jammu and Ladhakh...Moreover Kashmiri pundits don't have anything to do with so-called Kashmiri freedom struggle......So their allignment with Pak(being a Muslim country) is understandable, however this is also a fact that very small number of people want that to happen....

I do not see India doing anything wrong now. India is trying to be as flexible as possible but people are just not cooperating with GOI and specifically in the valley. If they want Army/Forces to be removed, they should help the process. They can get things done if they talk, GOI is asking what do you want and in reply all I hear is violance and distruction.

This is a very bold statement my friend....I will ask you a few questions

- Human right Violation : What is your take on this??? See i can understand that whenever a place is plagued with insurgency there will be collateral. If i compare IA records with our neighbours than we are doing a far better job however can this logic be explained to someone who has lost his/her near and dear???? It is been 2 decades since Army has been deployed in J&K...Do you see any near withdrawal??? If not then what assurance GOI has provided to the common people that there will be no more human rights violations???

- Number of missing personals: I would suggest you to check the number of people missing in Kashmir...What has been done in this regard??? Don't you think that healing touch has been missing???

- AFSPA : This act is decades old...I being an ardent fan of Army want to keep this act as it is(this is what army want's as well)..but how about the people of Kashmir who have to face the music because of this act in their day to day life??? What we as a society has done to make their life easy then what it has been????

- Why interlocuters were sent only after this debacle and not before??? Why GOI has to wait till valley turns into a burning fire before acting upon it??? Also how many times such talks have been initiated by GOI and what tangible results have been achieved with that??? Can we just blame separatists for deadlock on talks??? In short what powers these interlocutors has been given to bring in change at ground level???

See buddy there are numerous occassions in which New Delhi has been found dilly-dallying on this issue...Yes, Kashmir is an integral part of India but so are its people....They have been living under the shadow of the gun for decades.....It is imperative that we should do whatever we can to give them respite from all this...So my question to you is, are you convinced that we are doing that???

So please guide, how this can be done.

I have touched upon it above...IMHO the most importart part is to engage with Kashmiri's. Explain them the GOI POV and complexities involved in plebisicite and how it is not feasible in today's world. This is one point on which New Delhi is whacked a lot by opportunists and its pity that even after having genuine reasons we are not able to convince people on that...May be we did not try or may be we did not try it in right way...whatever it is, we need to fix this ASAP....

Interlocutors is a good intitiative but they should have some meaningful mandate/powers to bring in change...It should not mere lip-service to bring Kashmir back to normal and forget about it till next disturbance emerge....In short we cannot close our eyes like a pegion about to be killed by cat....We need to take unprecendented steps to fix Kashmir economic problems, unemployment problems etc etc...I know other parts of the country are also suffering from same evile but then we need to define our priorities and i don't see any reason why Kashmir should not be on top three of our list...

Second thing is that we should do a reality check on our position in Kashmir...Yes, no one can snatch it from us by force, yes no one can put pressure on us to do anything about it but that doesn't mean we can take Kashmir for granted...There is lot of meddling in Kashmir affairs and we need to plan keeping that in mind....Separatist will loose their charm if people find GOI really interested in solving the issue...AS said above interlocutors is good inititative but they should be given some teeth so that ordinary Kashmiri should see that GOI is interested in solving the issue and not mere rhetoric...

What I meant in short was this, both India and speeratist in valley are rigide in their position. So there is a deadlock, in order to break the deadlock, one party should reach the threshold. So all I was asking it was ways to reach the threshold faster. Why do protest in installment and keep it dragging. Do it day in and day out and settle it either ways.

I understand what you said however this approach will only bring a smile to our enemies because it is the Indian Armed forces that will kill Indians in cold blood!!!