Kashmir - Think the Unthinkable

[Flintlock]

A serious crisis is in the making as GoI continues to ignore local sentiments...

You won't believe the amount of violence if the GoI decides to take sides.

But obviously, we all need a reason to criticize

 

[Neo]

You won't believe the amount of violence if the GoI decides to take sides.

Reminds me of 1947...and we all know how it reshaped the Indian map...

But obviously, we all need a reason to criticize

Obviously everything else but ourselves..?

 

[vish]

Reminds me of 1947...and we all know how it reshaped the Indian map...

Obviously everything else but ourselves..?

So you see paralleles between 1947 and the current situation? Please elaborate...

 

[Neo]

So you see paralleles between 1947 and the current situation? Please elaborate...

Yes I do. After six decades of Independence the dispute remains unsettled and Imho the comon man, hindu and muslim, are ready to take justice into their own hands rather than to depend on India or Pakistan Governements.

Its no longer a religious or ethnic devide, its about internal security and governance as people don't seem to have faith in Central Government.
This is enough fuel to start a revolt.

In Hindu-majority Jammu thousands of protesters courted arrest over the Amarnath land row while Protests continue in Kashmir valley with call for secession​

In Hindu-majority Jammu thousands of protesters courted arrest over the Amarnath land row. But the new volatile edge in the state did not translate into any violence.

In New Delhi, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh expressed concern over the growing divide between the two regions that form the troubled state but there was little sign of the deadlock being resolved amicably.

Tens of thousands of people were out on the streets in Kashmir Valley Monday chanting secessionist slogans even though their leaders appeared quite divided over the future direction of the movement.

The threatened mass march to UN observers'' office did not materialize as authorities only allowed little groups to go there in batches.

Tens of thousands supporting the cause of a "free Kashmir" congregated in Srinagar from all over the valley Monday and marched towards the UN office shouting pro-Pakistan slogans while security forces, asked to exercise maximum restraint, watched on.

The march to the United Military Observers'' Group (UNMOG) office in uptown Srinagar was sponsored by the separatist Hurriyat Conference to seek UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon's intervention to resolve the long-standing issue of the future of the Kashmir Valley.

Leader of the hardline faction of the Hurriyat Syed Ali Shah Geelani said: "Our memorandum seeks UN intervention for the permanent resolution of Kashmir issue in the wake of the economic blockade imposed on the valley."

 

[Spring Onion]

New plan to change the demography of Kashmir simple as that.

As stealth accepted here that if you bring back even Pandits to Jammu you can not change the demography of Kashmir.

So the Indian government, Hawks and Hindu Fanatics came over with this new idea of selling the land to non-Kashmiri Hindus simply to change the demography and once it is changed India can go for plebascite indeed.

 

[vish]

Yes I do. After six decades of Independence the dispute remains unsettled and Imho the comon man, hindu and muslim, are ready to take justice into their own hands rather than to depend on India or Pakistan Governements.

Its no longer a religious or ethnic devide, its about internal security and governance as people don't seem to have faith in Central Government.
This is enough fuel to start a revolt.

Seriously, what?

You think anything of that sort is going to happen?

 

[Neo]

Seriously, what?

You think anything of that sort is going to happen?

One didn't expect the partition in 1940. All I'm saying is that its a possibility.

 

[Contrarian]

A serious crisis is in the making as GoI continues to ignore local sentiments...

The local sentiment in Jammu is that the cancellation of the land transfer order is revoked and land given to the Amarnath Shrine Board.

Local sentiment in Kashmir is against the economic blockade imposed by the people in Jammu who are damned angry at Kashmir.

Its not hard to see, where the GoI will put its money.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

hahahahahahahaahahha. No it wasn't the Hindu fanatics who started the riots... it was the bloody martians who orchestrated all of this!!!!

The Indian army is on it's own territory. It's a select bunch of Kashmiris waving the flag of Pakistan which is across the border; so yea, either they're going to have to stay in India or move. They should be the ones to GET OUT of Kashmir.

Oh please!

The only people getting out should be the ones who didn't even fulfill the condition of plebiscite attached to the instrument of accession that they rant about as legitimizing their claim, let alone the UN resolutions.

Legally Kashmir remains unfinished business from partition, and as in partition, the rules should apply one way or the other - either the contiguous Muslim majority districts that choose Pakistan go to Pakistan, or a referendum is held.

Cry as much as you want about 'own territory', the legal status of Kashmir anywhere bar the Indian constitution is 'Disputed'.

A 'select bunch of Kashmiris' among hundreds of thousands who have come out to protest in the last few weeks for either independence or Pakistan - either way, its a pretty large percentage of Kashmiris who do not want to be with India, and given Pakistan's territorial claim on the region, that is significant.

 

[Flintlock]

Why don't give up your claim. We can handle a volatile Kashmir, but that tiny piece of land has been killing Pakistan.

It'll be good for you.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You won't believe the amount of violence if the GoI decides to take sides.

But obviously, we all need a reason to criticize

Right, and a 'pragmatic GoI' would realize that a compromise on Kashmir with Pakistan would in fact settle tensions and allow events to progress not just in Kashmir, but in all of South Asia. This isn't about caving in to 'Islamists' (as Flint would like to paint hem to try and curry the West's sympathies and draw incorrect parallels with other hot spots) or separatists, but the fact that the area is part of a dispute with Pakistan, unfinished business from partition, whose population is strongly anti-India.

What is at stake isn't maintaining the bluster and bravado of jingoistic Indians, but the path forward for a billion and a half people, in a future of cooperation and coexistence.

Instead of that however, we see the facade of the 'tolerant India' also falling away, as the claims of 'civilization thousands of years old' are now represented by xenophobia, shrieks of forced demographic change, and even controlled massacres when and if such change is protested. People are people everywhere, and one thing these opinions do illustrate is that the canard of 'peaceful Indian civilization' is just that - no more peaceful or tolerant than any other.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why don't give up your claim. We can handle a volatile Kashmir, but that tiny piece of land has been killing Pakistan.

It'll be good for you.

We are willing to compromise by not claiming the whole thing - why should we give it up? Its your country that refused to even implement the conditions associated with the instrument of accession, let alone the subsequent UN resolutions.

We are arguing for a compromise on the claims, along the lines of partition, keeping in mind the sentiments of the people involved.

 

[Flintlock]

What is at stake isn't maintaining the bluster and bravado of jingoistic Indians, but the path forward for a billion and a half people, in a future of cooperation and coexistence.

Instead of that however, we see the facade of the 'tolerant India' also falling away, as the claims of 'civilization thousands of years old' are now represented by xenophobia, shrieks of forced demographic change, and even controlled massacres when and if such change is protested. People are people everywhere, and one thing these opinions do illustrate is that the canard of 'peaceful Indian civilization' is just that - no more peaceful or tolerant than any other.

India is indeed one of the most peaceful civilizations to ever inhabit the earth. Perhaps not the most peaceful country in the last 50 years, but definitely the most peaceful civilization. Even then, it remains among the most peaceful regions in the last century considering its large masses of people and their vast differences, and in comparison with most other regions. Europe was bombed to pieces, Africa is continuously engaged in mass genocide, Japan, China, all had massacres and civil wars with violence far beyond anything ever seen in modern India. Afghanistan, Central Asia, all have had mass killing sprees. Perhaps the USA, Canada etc. were more peaceful than India in recent history.

Now, as far as forced demographic change is concerned, they are merely shrieks, and have no basis in fact.

If the Government of India was less responsible, nothing would have stopped them from arming the agitating hindus with AK-47s and charging them into Kashmir, like Pakistan has repeatedly, ceaselessly done for the last 60 years.

But obviously, we are saner and cooler than that, which is why the international community supports whatever stand we take on Kashmir.

Now, if only Pakistan could keep her army under some kind of control, not to mention her intelligence agency, things would be far better for all of us.
But it seems that Pakistan is unable to do so, therefore, we cannot risk giving up control over a piece of land that has tremendous strategic value for us, and hence, for the democratic and secular world.

 

[Flintlock]

We are willing to compromise by not claiming the whole thing - why should we give it up? Its your country that refused to even implement the conditions associated with the instrument of accession, let alone the subsequent UN resolutions.

Its for your own good. You guys have been wasting away your precious resources over Kashmir, and as a result of concentrating on external issues, you failed to see the proverbial monster within, which has now risen.
It will be better for your country and your future generations if they don't grow up with the idea of a somehow incomplete and ineffective Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Its for your own good. You guys have been wasting away your precious resources over Kashmir, and as a result of concentrating on external issues, you failed to see the proverbial monster within, which has now risen.
It will be better for your country and your future generations if they don't grow up with the idea of a somehow incomplete and ineffective Pakistan.

Bar the wars, Pakistan has spent peanuts on Kashmir, and hasn't spent much of anything ever since Musharraf reversed policy after 911, so the tangible cost is not an issue.

The Taliban issue is not solely related to Kashmir, not even close (though some linkages exist), as Pakistan's support for them was the result of a lot of other dynamics on its Western front, not least of which was that they seemed the only viable option to unite Afghanistan into a stable and unified entity, admittedly one that might also be pro-Pakistan, and it is the failure of that policy, unforeseen by almost everyone at the time, that Pakistan is seeking to redress.

Pakistani nationalism will not suffer from continuing to claim Kashmir, we are only reminded of the validity of our position when events like those of the past few weeks occur.

Instead, it will be better for all of South Asia, in terms of moving ahead as a united front, to resolve Kashmir.