Kashmir - Think the Unthinkable

[Energon]

PERIOD

A little subversion and engineered religious and ethnic rifts can see pretty much any flag waved anywhere else. It means nothing. These people are more than welcome to migrate to Pakistan if they are so fond of it.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Actually its more of an argument related to the resolution of a territorial dispute recognized as such by the UN, on the basis of a solution recommended by the UN.

Nope it is the way you approach or view the argument(which is suitable to your terms) and you tend to force it upon us in every debate. I had explained it clearly to you that the international communities silence says it all. UN is international community and frankly I don't find international community caring much. We take it as silent approval .

an equally significant part of the issue is Pakistan's claim to the territory, as recognized by the international community and the UN, the latter to which the GoI was a party to.

Times have changed. Why does Pakistan fail to attract the international commmunities attention to view this issue, not even China. Many a treaties and international agreements have changed withouth UN being party to it.

 

[Spring Onion]

A little subversion and engineered religious and ethnic rifts can see pretty much any flag waved anywhere else. It means nothing. These people are more than welcome to migrate to Pakistan if they are so fond of it.

It was made religous by Hindu Fanatics just another game plan to crush Kashmiris.

and Kashmiris are not going to migrate to any other country from their own land.

Its Indian occupied Army that needs to lay off and Get Out of Kashmir.

 

[Contrarian]

India is finencing the Terrorists of BLA in Balochistan who are carying out terrorists activities. The arms and money are being showerd on these terrorists by India.

Terrorist Baitullah is also being funded by India besides India is also providing the militants and terrorists in my province.

If any part of Pakistan falls India would also be the frist to recoginze it so you are not saints too so no excuse to cry when you have the same deeds.


Kashmir is an independent state which has been occupied by India illegaly and today Indians are killing innocent people in Kashmir enmass.

Um...I dont give a damn. This thread is not about what India is doing where, but what is happening in Kashmir, and the consequences of letting Kashmir go.

Dont try to derail the thread and stick to the topic.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana, like I said they should be free to settle in Pakistan, atleat free to cross the border.

Get Out of occupied Kashmir and we will make it international border otherwise Its LoC.

But as u say let them corss LoC why your police and army is killing them when they wanted to cross LoC recently ?????????????/


Murderers of Kashmiris

 

[Spring Onion]

Um...I dont give a damn. This thread is not about what India is doing where, but what is happening in Kashmir, and the consequences of letting Kashmir go.

Dont try to derail the thread and stick to the topic.

I am also talking about Kashmir and before talking to me ask your ihindian to refrain from derailing the thread.

It was your own countryman who brought Khalistan if you bring Khalistan in then have guts to listen to Indian terrorism too

 

[Energon]

It was made religous by Hindu Fanatics just another game plan to crush Kashmiris.

and Kashmiris are not going to migrate to any other country from their own land.

Its Indian occupied Army that needs to lay off and Get Out of Kashmir.

hahahahahahahaahahha. No it wasn't the Hindu fanatics who started the riots... it was the bloody martians who orchestrated all of this!!!!

The Indian army is on it's own territory. It's a select bunch of Kashmiris waving the flag of Pakistan which is across the border; so yea, either they're going to have to stay in India or move. They should be the ones to GET OUT of Kashmir.

 

[Contrarian]

Nope you are wrong, mark my word, slowly and surely governments attidude will chage from now onwards, the nations attitude has changed, gone are the times when we thumped about Indian Kashmiris and their Indianness, from now on they are looked as disloyal citizens who need to be booted out ( believe me this is the mood in street here in the Southern most tip of India).

Exactly, Kashmiris shot themselves in their foot. They did not anticipate the Jammu agitation and out of sudden fear did the unthinkable, raised Pakistani flags. From now on one can expect the end of free lunch. The reaction of Indian muslims, which apparently is 'I don give a damm' has only boosted this line of thought more. No more free lunc and no more Article 370...


It will happen, slowly but surely. Indian government has learned its lesson.

I dont know about any lessons that might have been learned by Congress of BJP. But one thing is for sure, the Jammu agitation caught the entire country with surprise. No one ever expected that Jammu would harbour such strong anti-Kashmir sentiments. The blockade was done by the people of Jammu, there is literally anger in the streets of Jammu. If the Pakistani Kashmiri's think that they are going to get what they want, then they are wrong, and Jammu has just proven that.

Jammu will not allow Kashmir to get free lunches now on. And no political party can afford to overlook this, thats for sure.

 

[Contrarian]

I am also talking about Kashmir and before talking to me ask your ihindian to refrain from derailing the thread.

I am not a leader of the Indian club here. Talk directly with whomever you want.
You quoted my post in your reply, thus that constitutes a reply to me. And i am not the one bringing Baluchistan in a Kashmir/Indian thread.

It was your own countryman who brought Khalistan if you bring Khalistan in then have guts to listen to Indian terrorism too

Khalistan is important in this case, as it pertains to what would happen if Kashmir is separated from India.

Take your guts and start another thread about Indian sponsored terrorism for all i care. This is not the thread to talk about it. Like i said, dont try to derail the thread.

 

[Spring Onion]

I am not a leader of the Indian club here. Talk directly with whomever you want.
You quoted my post in your reply, thus that constitutes a reply to me. And i am not the one bringing Baluchistan in a Kashmir/Indian thread.


Khalistan is important in this case, as it pertains to what would happen if Kashmir is separated from India.

Take your guts and start another thread about Indian sponsored terrorism for all i care. This is not the thread to talk about it. Like i said, dont try to derail the thread.

I was also not addressing you so why you took the pain to speak on behalf of someone else.

Khalistan has nothing to do with Kashmir.

Any blam on Pakistan about Khalistan is as much equal to Indian role in our Balochistan.

So take your guts and open another thread if you want to discuss Khalistan.

Ask your Indian not to derail the thread. I was discussing Kashmir it was one Indian who brought Khalistan in this thread.

 

[ashfaque]

Any blam on Pakistan about Khalistan is as much equal to Indian role in our Balochistan.

Jana I do not think this is correct. People like Zaid Hamid accepted on TV that Pakistan had supported the Khalistan. Any way lets not discuss this.

Second thing, do not jump like child here after showing two Pakistani Flags in a big crowd base. I have already said Jammu is pro India, in Valley there are three kind of people Pro Pakistani (less majority), Pro-Independence and Pro Indian, so you need not to prove that some people can hold Pakistani Flag.

Though I pefectly agree that all five stake holders 3 groups above+India and Pakistan have to collectively decide the amicable solution for Kashmir.

But I do not think any solution is going to come in near future, because as per my calucalations, First, in near future Pakistan is going to be very busy to solve its own internal problems, second in near future militancy in Kashmir is going to increase drastically which will halt the peace process.

 

[Malang]

Personally, "Machismo" aside GoI should hold a plebiscite in the Valley and partition it into 3 parts Pakistani, Indian and Independent.

Then, India must nullify and redraw the Indus water treaty, must demand compensation for aid given to Pakistani Kashmir from Pakistan, Ensure that Kashmiris who vote for Pakistan are sent to Pakistan, Merge Ladakh with HP and Jammu with Punjab, scrap article 370, treat any support of further anti-Indian activities by Pakistan as an act of war, put up a proper impenetrable fenced border.

For Independent Kashmir make sure that Pakistani influence is countered and that they are not allowed to merge with Pakistan and least of all with India, their vital supplies are kept on a tight leash by India, and no aid for them.

Honestly Kashmiri separatists deserve no sympathy or respect.. when it comes to aid they don't mind, when it came to Kargil War they were sitting quietly but when it comes to anything which dilutes their power even a trifle bit they cry hoarse and fly Pakistani flags.. I would rather not be associated with such scum of humans.. If they followed Satyagarha they would have won hearts of not only Pakistanis but the whole world and esp of Indians who would have made sure that they are granted freedom.. such hypocrisy that to in the name of Islam and Azadi is sickening.. How can they claim to be Muslims is beyond me!!

 

[vish]

Vish, Ashfaque and Flint,

I am not surprised by your comments - you are after all frequenters of a defense forum (as am I) and therefore liable to be more jingoistic than most, and ardently opposed to pragmatism or compromise of any sort.

Honestly AM, I do not think you are at any higher moral ground; your posts are as jingoistic as ours.

As far as compromises go, the Article 370 is the biggest compromise we could have ever offered. There was never any question that the region deserves Article 370 (it does); however, I doubt if the situation will remain so henceforth.

The events of the last few days will not anytime soon change Indian policy towards Kashmir.

They have; expect a more hard-line approach henceforth, regardless of who comes to power in the center.

That is not what my point was, but they are important in that after all these years of investment by India in Kashmir, hoping to use development as a way to win Kashmiris over, it is obvious that the overwhelming sentiment remains pro-Pakistan.

What development AM? After your insurgency, things went down the gutter. No matter how much development takes place, somebody's neighbor is dying; people are being picked up; etc. We have to maintain a 600k+ presence to check your insurgency; this is followed by excellent "occupation forces" PR. The result is that the people in the region are anti-establishment; this is what the primary goal of any insurgency/guerilla conflict is. The pro-Pakistani sentiment is a result of anti-India sentiment, which is not our making or genuine. It’s a result of years of conflict, i.e. your doing.

Its not a matter of seeing 'pro-Pakistani' Kashmiris, the events of late pretty much show us that most of the valley is pro-Pakistan, or pro independence - either is fine by me, though I prefer the former.

You really think their sentiments matter to one billion Indians who are seeing their opposition to the land transfer as wrong? If they are pro-Pakistani/Independence, they are traitors; that is how a majority of the Indians see them.

That the facade has fallen is crucial, because India and Indians had built up this charade that Kashmri could be won over, and that the Kashmiris would accept and integrate with India, and that argument has been destroyed for now.

I agree; but we learnt a different lesson: Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Moving on, whether the GoI scraps Kashmir's special status or not remains to be seen.

A whole lot of Indians want the GoI to.

It is equally likely that CBM's between AK and IK might see the light of day, with trade between Muzafarabad and Srinagar blossoming.

Nope; not at all. The peace is out of the window.

The latter will be good for everyone involved, the former we shall see, but IMO it will portend more instability in IK, and a further alienation and radicalization of the Kashmiris.

I disagree... with Article 370 gone, the "fruits of Indian economy" begin to percolate in the region... non-Kashmiris begin to move in and the people therein begin to see that we are not three-eyed evil monsters that they hallucinate us to be...

The only thing holding Article 370 was the Muslim sentiment in India. That is now almost non-existent. The Indian Muslims don't give much of a damn about Article 370 anymore.

 

[Neo]

Hindu protesters riot, court arrest in Jammu​

JAMMU: Hundreds of Hindu protesters set fire to a police post on Wednesday in Jammu city in Indian-held Kashmir, defying a curfew imposed to defuse protests over a land row with the region’s Muslims. Hindu crowds also set fire to a government apartment in Jammu and hundreds marched to police stations and courted arrest as part of their movement to flood the region’s jails in a civil disobedience campaign. At least 25 people were injured in pitched battles between police and Hindu protesters late on Tuesday. Crowds burned a truck and damaged another half dozen vehicles in Jammu.

Police have killed at least 22 Muslim protesters in Kashmir. In Jammu, 10 people have been killed in protests since the agitation began, police said. “The troops were recently withdrawn from counter-insurgency operations and kept (for) dealing with law and order problem,” AK Sarolia, a senior border guard official, said. The Indian government is holding meetings with protest leaders from both sides to defuse the crisis.

 

[Neo]

A serious crisis is in the making as GoI continues to ignore local sentiments...