Kashmir - Think the Unthinkable

[Neo]

Shrine clash threatens to tear Kashmir from India​

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[Neo]

Kashmir violence may force people to take up arms ​

Thursday August 21, 2008

NEW DELHI: On a recent four-month trek through hundreds of Kashmiri villages, separatist leader Yasin Malik called on people to adopt his new Gandhian philosophy of non-violence. Malik, a secular Muslim, soon became an icon of peace to many youths in this turbulent region.
But Malik`s commitment to non-violence is now being tested amid a wave of unrest in occupied Kashmir. Over the past six weeks, tensions between Muslims and Hindus have left 34 people dead, most of them unarmed protesters shot by Indian security forces. Like many leaders here, Malik worries that Kashmir`s freedom movement is once again on the verge of becoming an armed struggle.

"Such a show of violence is pushing Kashmiri people, especially our youth, toward revolution," Malik said in a telephone interview from his hospital bed after ending a hunger strike.

"At this point, I think the international community has to step in. Otherwise, we fear a growing extremism. This kind of anger comes at the worst time."

After four years of relative calm, the Muslim-led demonstrations in Srinagar were the biggest since a freedom movement against Indian rule nearly 20 years ago, analysts say.

Tens of thousands of people have died in the freedom movement, and thousands have been forced to leave their homes.

Rising hostility in Kashmir comes at a time of deteriorating relations between India and Pakistan.

"Pakistan has to put its political house in order before we can say what it means for Kashmir," said Bharart Bushan, editor of the Mail Today.

The current crisis in Kashmir began after the state government promised to lease forestland to a board that runs a Hindu shrine. The deal would have allowed tents and restrooms for Hindu pilgrims visiting the site. The board was set up after deaths of 200 Hindu pilgrims and mountain guides from cold and hunger in a blizzard in 1996. When Muslim protests erupted over the land deal, Malik offered the Hindu pilgrims blankets and rice. He instructed Muslim youths to treat the hundreds of thousands of pilgrims with respect, and most have.

Then, the Kashmir government revoked the land grant, enraging the Hindus, who launched their own protests by blockading roads to New Delhi, cutting off Kashmir`s main trade route and crippling farmers during the height of the apple harvest. Malik went on his hunger strike, hoping to convince Hindu protesters and the Indian military to open the roads.

Tensions are also high in Jammu, the predominantly Hindu region of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir. Three Hindu protesters died after protests in Jammu, and two leaders have committed suicide, saying they were saddened by the local government`s reversal.

Malik has led several peaceful protests, but many young Kashmiris now say they are ready to fight.

Malik is a controversial figure. He was at the forefront of militancy in 1989 and was imprisoned by the Indian government in 2002 for allegedly smuggling money to finance freedom fighters in Kashmir. But he was released after eight months. He has also been accused of atrocities against Kashmiri Hindus. In 1990, he renounced violence and has since started his peace movement.

Some here worry that his peaceful solutions will soon have little relevance.

"We hate the sight of these security forces," said Rizwan, 15, a student in Srinagar who declined to give his last name for fear of retaliation by Indian authorities.

"We are Kashmiris, not Indians. Earlier, my mother used to tell me not to join protests, but yesterday even my mother was in the protest with me."

The focus has shifted dramatically from the shrine to a larger national debate over Kashmir`s status. Columnists in mainstream English-language newspapers published out of New Delhi on Sunday acknowledged the Kashmir independence issue, with one calling for a vote on Kashmiri independence -- once a rare statement. Some analysts say live television images of the unrest, police actions and anti-India sentiment in Kashmir were beginning to impact public opinion. There was no such coverage during the freedom movement in the early 1990s.

Until recently, the federal government has offered little leadership on the issue. Analysts say such involvement could have calmed the situation. But on Friday, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called for an end to the protests and violence in Kashmir.

"In this hour of crisis, divisive politics will lead us nowhere," he said, speaking from New Delhi.

"It is my conviction that all issues can be resolved only through dialogue and peaceful means."

India’s Independence Day celebrations this year included parades, kite-flying contests, family picnics and flag-waving crowds, but Kashmiris spent the weekend waving black flags, unfurling green Pakistani flags and calling for "a national day of mourning."

 

[dabong1]

Muslims in huge Kashmir protest

BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Muslims in huge Kashmir protest

Check the pic of the pakistani flag being waved by the protesters.

 

[roadrunner]

may god give them sense of peace
they must first change their own mindset instead of talking about revolution, azaadi etc which they dont know what they are talking about....

By changing their mindset, you mean to embrace India. Well, being the world's greatest democracy, give them that choice..whether to embrace India or Pakistan. Isn't that what democracy is...choice?

 

[U-571]

We have made too many sacrifices, lost too many lives over this tiny sliver of land.

u indians always concerned about urselves, is there any one in the world, who can estimate from today the countless kashmiri sacrifices made for their cause of islam and free themselves and their land from indians and their cruel army??

u make kashmiris live in fear, they have no trust on ur cruel army, how much worse can u expect than the conditions in which kashmiris r living in??

 

[Flintlock]

u indians always concerned about urselves, is there any one in the world, who can estimate from today the countless kashmiri sacrifices made for their cause of islam and free themselves and their land from indians and their cruel army??

That's the thing...its for the cause of Islam. Which is why we are against it.

Its against our principles to divide our land on the basis of religious movements.

 

[roadrunner]

changing mindset is for choosing a democracy not millitracy ,and i cant change theirs but still can say whats good for a land
well many people(kashmiri hindus) fled kashmir durind 1990s due jihadic atmosphere, they need to be replaced, elections are generally held in all parts of India, dont know about pak
question is will it remain a democracy if separated??
conditions in nwfp /baluchstan are worrisome, no trace of democracy there
anyways, is nwfp a pakistani part oo territory,or american,or afghani,or.....

Utter nonsense.

1) The percentage of Kashmiri Muslims has decreased since 1947. So one cannot use, as an excuse, that Hindu Pandits need repatriating into Kashmir. Currently, it's the Kashmiri Muslim population that needs increasing to 1947 levels.

2) Why do you, and many other Indians on here, bring up NWFP, and Balochistan always when we're discussing Kashmir? NWFP and Balochistan is a seperate issue. You deal with Kashmir on this thread. If you want to discuss NWFP and Balochistan i'd be happy to refute all your arguments in that thread. Stick to Kashmir in this one.

 

[Flintlock]

By changing their mindset, you mean to embrace India. Well, being the world's greatest democracy, give them that choice..whether to embrace India or Pakistan. Isn't that what democracy is...choice?

The choice is to exercise their right to democracy within the larger entity of India. That's the best the world can offer them.

 

[dabong1]

dont talk about kashmiri sacrifices ,when those militants died in gun battle with Indian army had pak manufactured arsenal:

So what if pakistan was giving weapons to the freedom fighters.

and this trend continues since 20yrs till date. pak is root cause of kashmiri misery:

The only trend that continues is the killings of kashmiris at the hands of the indian army.

and m.a jinnah himself said that pak will fight for kashmir,:

And every other leader after jinnah has said he will fight for kashmir also..
Pakistan will carry on fighting for jammu and kashmir until it becomes part of pakistan.

by the way that british agent divided a country earlier

?

 

[dabong1]

The choice is to exercise their right to democracy within the larger entity of India. That's the best the world can offer them.

What are you talking about "world can offer"....the world wants india to hold a referendum in kashmir.

 

[dabong1]

nonsense is jihad which world doesnt need and is a daily news in pak, shows where is nonsense prevailing( by some hurriyats as well):

You getting mixedup....the fight in afganistan is a jihad,the fight in kashmir is a jihad...the mehsud gang are crimminal that are attacking pakistan so it is not a jihad.

1) i think you know what is a percentage and what are total numbers,otherwise go to basic maths.:

Do you the number of kashmiris that where or are refugee's.?

Why dont we use the percentage and total numbers and apply it to how the minorities in india treated .....jobs,education ect.

2)why discussing about kashmir then? what prevents kashmir becoming like baloch/nwfp if integrated with pakistan?

Assam
Manipur
Nagaland
Tripura
Meghalaya
Mizoram
Punjab ect ect.....

why pak gifted axsai chin -a large part of kashmir to china (sure there was no war with china on that territory)- :

Its our country we can do what we want with it.

study abt kashmiri history other than brainwashing texts from ur own country,and:

I think your the one that needs to study non indian kashmiris history.

sure kashmiris are not punjabis so they will be isolated:

I hope you know Nawaaz sharifs family are kashmiri.

anyways if kashmir goes with pak and uncle sam tries to establish a base there (which it would surely do),china will attack kashmir first ,then India

Well the way things are going ,after the nuclear deal with india and greater economic economic ties ect the US somewhere down the line the US will want kashmir to sorted according to US wish's and indians will have to toe the line....it makes economic sense or some other catchphrase will be used on the indian public.
But hopefully the the pak army will have liberated kashmir by then.

 

[roadrunner]

1) i think you know what is a percentage and what are total numbers,otherwise go to basic maths.

Basic maths..

According to Reuters in 2008, Kashmir population is
POPULATION: 10 million in Indian Kashmir and over three million in Pakistani Kashmir. About 70 percent are Muslims and the rest Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists.
Reuters AlertNet - FACTBOX-The Jammu and Kashmir valley dispute

According to an Indian LSE Kashmir political scientist, in 1947, Kashmir..
Jammu and Kashmir at that time was approximately 77 percent Muslim, 20 percent Hindu and 3 percent other, mainly Sikh.
The Conflict in Kashmir

So actually, simple maths will show the Muslim population in Kashmir has decreased since 1947.

2)why discussing about kashmir then? what prevents kashmir becoming like baloch/nwfp if integrated with pakistan?,why pak gifted axsai chin -a large part of kashmir to china (sure there was no war with china on that territory)- study abt kashmiri history other than brainwashing texts from ur own country,and
sure kashmiris are not punjabis so they will be isolated
anyways if kashmir goes with pak and uncle sam tries to establish a base there (which it would surely do),china will attack kashmir first ,then India

Pakistan and its relation to NWFP/Balochistan are nothing to do with this thread. It can be discussed elsewhere, and has been.

 

[Spring Onion]

That's the thing...its for the cause of Islam. Which is why we are against it.

Its against our principles to divide our land on the basis of religious movements.

Kashmir struggle was never based on religion its only that now when Hindu fanatics have come up with new idea to make it a religious issue.

As far as dividing the land well who is telling you divide your land. Apply your principles on Indian land not Kashmir.

Kashmir is not your land hence there is no question of dividing it on your part.

BTW there was no India in the histroy in the first place.

 

[Keysersoze]

The choice is to exercise their right to democracy within the larger entity of India. That's the best the world can offer them.

Have you heard of the word succession? or breakaway state? If India had taken that philosophy it would still be part of the British empire.

 

[indopak]

Should India let Kashmir go? 68% say no

NEW DELHI: Are the people of India sick and tired of the 'Kashmir problem'? Do they believe the country would be better rid of it? Even if the subject is being discussed today from different perspectives by a few commentators, young professionals in the big Indian cities are not at all convinced that India (and Kashmir) would be better off without each other.

A clear majority — 59% — of all respondents to a survey conducted this week across nine cities said India should hold on to Kashmir despite the human and economic cost of doing so, while 11% said they couldn't tell this or that way. Interestingly, a sizeable 30% said if the economic and human costs were this high, it wasn't worth holding on to Kashmir.

The survey, done exclusively for TOI by leading market research agency Synovate India, also found that more than two-thirds of the respondents said Kashmir should not be allowed to secede from the Indian Union even if the people there wish to do so. This finding did not quite square up with the other finding that said 30% were willing to let Kashmir go if the costs were frightfully high.

What does this mean? At one level, it indicates that what was simply not thinkable until now — whether Kashmir could secede from the Indian Union or not — has possibly become a matter of debate, even if it is within a small section of our urban society. It also indicates the thinking on Kashmir is anything but clear — perhaps the reason why the responses to two similar questions don't quite tally.

At another level, the divergent responses possibly indicate urban India is not driven by the feeling that Kashmir has a right to self-determination but by other factors, perhaps growing fatigue over an issue that has remained unsettled for decades and cost many lives on both sides of the divide.

The feeling that India should hold on to Kashmir seems to be based both on hope and fear, as responses to two other questions appear to bear out.

'41% feel Kashmir has been neglected by government'

To deal with hope, first. More than three-fourths of those surveyed felt Kashmir could still be integrated into the Indian mainstream.

As for fear, a clear half said India would become a less safe place if Kashmir were allowed to secede. In other words, the terror threat to the country would only increase if the northern border were to come closer to the country's heartland.

Only 19% felt allowing Kashmir to go would make the country safer, while 31% said it would make no difference to the security situation. Significantly, a clear majority of young urban Indians do not feel Kashmir has been pampered by the Centre. On the contrary, 41% said it has been neglected, 30% said it had been treated fairly and only 29% expressed the view that it had been pampered.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Let_Kashmir_go_68_say_no/articleshow/3397706.cms