Kashmir The Freedom of Struggle

[Contrarian]

mishraji,

They have already spoken with the last elections, The whole world has acknowleged. Village defence Commitee's are slaughtering miltants on sight

Yes i know mate. I posted something like this in one of the earlier posts, i forget where exactly.
And you dont need to call me Mishraji, lol, Malay is just fine, im not that old

 

[Adux]

Yes i know mate. I posted something like this in one of the earlier posts, i forget where exactly.
And you dont need to call me Mishraji, lol, Malay is just fine, im not that old

Its just my mind playing, i am gettin the ripe old age of 25 in 2 months....
I wanna get back the good school life

 

[salman77]

Other than babri and gujarat what else fo you know?

Human rights violation in Kashmir. India is responsible for torture, kidnapping, extrajudicial killing, rape and use of excessive forces against the Kashmiri people.

 

[Contrarian]

Human rights violation in Kashmir. India is responsible for torture, kidnapping, extrajudicial killing, rape and use of excessive forces against the Kashmiri people.

Yeah and u are telling me that this does not happen even in the US, let alone Pakistan?

As said before, dont throw stones at others when you have a glass house. Pakistan has one of the worst records in these things. Need i point you only to the hudood laws, etc or do you want more??

 

[salman77]

Yeah and u are telling me that this does not happen even in the US, let alone Pakistan?

As said before, dont throw stones at others when you have a glass house. Pakistan has one of the worst records in these things. Need i point you only to the hudood laws, etc or do you want more??

Don't make me post the pictures of the innocent Muslims who were killed in the Gujarat violence.

 

[Contrarian]

You want me to post pictures of violence in Pakistan??

On the flip side of the Gujarat issue, do you want me to post pictures of Hindus killed in Gujarat. It was religious violence and no1 was spared. And no1 forgives or forgets these incidences.They were disgraceful, and the nation mourns the Gujarat violence.

Like said above, do you know anything other than Gujarat and Babri Masjid??

Do you want me to post news of your own army or maybe the US army killing children in Pakistan. a place called Bajaur.

As said before, dont throw stones at others when you have a glass house.

And a very fragile one at that.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Kashmiris should be involved in peace process:APHC ISLAMABAD, Jan 20 (APP) The Chairman of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC), Mirwaiz Omer Farooq, on Saturday said that the tripartite dialogue involving Pakistan, India and the people of Kashmir is vital to find a durable solution to the long-running dispute. Addressing a joint news conference with AJK President, Raja Zulqarnain Haider, he said the “Kashmiri people cannot be ignored in any dialogue process aimed at resolving the issue.” The Hurriyat leader said it is clear that there could no military solution and the only feasible way for durable peace in the region is to bolster the peace process. In reply to a question, he said the mujahideen groups should support the dialogue process. (Posted @ 19:02 PST)

http://www.dawn.com/2007/01/20/welcome.htm#18

 

[genmirajborgza786]

please both of you stop fighting we can solve this issue only when we sit down and talk not fight :wall:

 

[salman77]

Like said above, do you know anything other than Gujarat and Babri Masjid??
.

What do u mean by saying if i know anything other than the demolishing of Babri masjid and the Gujarat massacre. Do u think it is that easy to forget these crimes and talk about other stuff.

 

[Contrarian]

You say that as though crimes were committed against YOU. They were an internal problem of our country and it has been condemned by every right minded Indian as so.

Now do you know of any instances that you claim other than these two??
For i really can give you numerous articles on how Pakistan is at violence, it is full of terrorists, there is no economy, there is law and order, there is feudalism, religious strife, etc, etc.

So all im saying here in short is: you have NO right, and i mean NO right to comment on what has happened in another country, unless you put your own countries record straight or can say that this has not happened in your country. And mind you, Pakistan has much more of such problems compared to India.

 

[salman77]

You say that as though crimes were committed against YOU. They were an internal problem of our country and it has been condemned by every right minded Indian as so.

Now do you know of any instances that you claim other than these two??
For i really can give you numerous articles on how Pakistan is at violence, it is full of terrorists, there is no economy, there is law and order, there is feudalism, religious strife, etc, etc.

So all im saying here in short is: you have NO right, and i mean NO right to comment on what has happened in another country, unless you put your own countries record straight or can say that this has not happened in your country. And mind you, Pakistan has much more of such problems compared to India.

Bull said that "Its more practical for Kashmiris to be part of India than pakistan", which is y i mentioned about the Babri masjid and Gujarat genocide. I mean if this is how u treat muslims & their place of worship how is it practical for Kashmiries to become part of India. And the answer to ur question Malay, Yes I do know of other instances other than these two, and they r the crimes committed by the Indian troops against the Kashmiri ppl, which can still be seen today.

 

[vnomad]

Just think if pakistan outnumbered india 6/1 how long do you think india would have lasted?

The India's aim was never to destroy Pakistan.

"If you believe india defeated pakistan three times it shows your grasp of history and the level propaganda ingraved in you".

1947: Maharaja calls on India to intercede. Indian forces are paradropped in Srinagar. Push intruders back. Before complete Kashmir can be recovered, ceasefire is declared.

Result: Indeterminate. India captures major(and economically more vibrant) portion of Kashmir.

1965: Pakistan launches Operation Gibraltor to attempt to win Kashmir. Operation fails with Pakistan losing territory in . Gen. Ayub Khan responds by launching Operation Grandslam. India thrusts across the IB to relieve pressure on Akhnoor. Indian forces reach Lahore. UNSC pass a resolution and ceasefire is declared the following day. All forces withdraw to previous positions.

Result: At the time of ceasefire India had captured 650Mil^2 of enemy territory while Pakistan had captured 250 Mil^2 of enemy territory. Pakistani attempt to capture Kashmir is foiled.

1971: Details irrelevant.

Result: Outright victory for India.

1999: Kargil skirmish.

PA captures Kargil and surrounding areas like Drass, Mushkoh etc.

Result: All intruders repelled.


Now please explain how you came to the conclusion that Pakistan had defeated India thrice. India's claims of victory can be justified as - 1947 & 1965 denying Pakistan Kashmir; 1971 - forcing a military surrender; 1999 - recapturing occupied territory.

 

[PakSniper]

The India's aim was never to destroy Pakistan.



1947: Maharaja calls on India to intercede. Indian forces are paradropped in Srinagar. Push intruders back. Before complete Kashmir can be recovered, ceasefire is declared.

Result: Indeterminate. India captures major(and economically more vibrant) portion of Kashmir.

1965: Pakistan launches Operation Gibraltor to attempt to win Kashmir. Operation fails with Pakistan losing territory in . Gen. Ayub Khan responds by launching Operation Grandslam. India thrusts across the IB to relieve pressure on Akhnoor. Indian forces reach Lahore. UNSC pass a resolution and ceasefire is declared the following day. All forces withdraw to previous positions.

Result: At the time of ceasefire India had captured 650Mil^2 of enemy territory while Pakistan had captured 250 Mil^2 of enemy territory. Pakistani attempt to capture Kashmir is foiled.

1971: Details irrelevant.

Result: Outright victory for India.

1999: Kargil skirmish.

PA captures Kargil and surrounding areas like Drass, Mushkoh etc.

Result: All intruders repelled.


Now please explain how you came to the conclusion that Pakistan had defeated India thrice. India's claims of victory can be justified as - 1947 & 1965 denying Pakistan Kashmir; 1971 - forcing a military surrender; 1999 - recapturing occupied territory.

About Kargil you guyies ran to UN and US,. as usual, '47 we took part of kashmir (still holding on to it) Cease-fire, '65 Not much has been gained from both sides "status quo" stayed cease-fire declared, and '71 Bangladesh got independance with help of India you guyies could call it victory, since you interefered in an internal affair but thats another story,. but over all it's been a cease-fire so neither side should claim victory cause 1 India doesn't have all of Kashmir and neither does pakistan, get out of your stupid national pride Indian you didn't win and neither did pakistan if cease-fires keep getting declared, and Kargil we might retreated after you ran to US and Co., but the militants had your asses before you even knew you lost Kargil at first, and 2nd not all of PA and PAF was involved like Indian army was, get up and smell the coffee.

Sooner or later they would have made veggie rolls out of India Army, you guyies had to call in artilery and airforce aganist a militai that didn't have that luxury during kargil, so that definetly wasn't a victory at all for you guyies, and got lucky pakistan was ordered to retreat after UN and US intervened.

 

[Contrarian]

Bull said that "Its more practical for Kashmiris to be part of India than pakistan", which is y i mentioned about the Babri masjid and Gujarat genocide. I mean if this is how u treat muslims & their place of worship how is it practical for Kashmiries to become part of India. And the answer to ur question Malay, Yes I do know of other instances other than these two, and they r the crimes committed by the Indian troops against the Kashmiri ppl, which can still be seen today.

Going by your logic,tell me, if Pakistan bombs its own places of religious teachings like in Bajaur, what proof is there that this wont be done in Kashmir too? Or Pakistan would allow US to do it for her??
So the same can be applied to you, if that is how you treat fellow muslims and their places of religious teachigs then how is practical for them to be a part of Pakistan?

What i mean to convey from the above statement is that exceptions are always there, but it is a folly to take exceptions as rule.

India is not Hindu's, as i'v told people here many times. It is equally for Muslims as well. I live in New Delhi and i challenge any1 to come to India, and tell any1 your a muslim(but not that ur from Pakistan), and he would not care. This is a common occurence in daily life. Who care whether its Hindu's or Muslims. Same applies everywhere in the country.

What you are saying is not at all valid. Anyways, what Bull meant by that statement is that India is more prosperous than Pakistan, and in this aspect, Kashmir would gain much much more in being with India than in being with Pakistan. Plus Kashmir choses its own elected leaders, this was very evident in the last elections. Kashmir came out to vote.

 

[Contrarian]

About Kargil you guyies ran to UN and US,.

WHAT THE HELL ARE U TALKING ABOUT!!!
Pakistan ran to US to save themselves. Nawaz Sharif literally RAN to the US. India did not care for US. We had the military might, we had superior armed forces, why should we be worried?? The intrudeers were getting evicted, why would India goto the US.

Your saying this fact means that u dont even know what happened in Kargil.

as usual, '47 we took part of kashmir (still holding on to it)

Still a victory for us, as IA entered very late in the scenario when Hari Singh signed IOA. Then PA was repelled a great distance, and when cease fire was announced, every1 was left with wherever they were.
Now tell me, how is that not a victory for India? India got Hari Singh to legally sign the IOA because of Pakistani assault. India even after entering so late, got the major part of Kashmir, with Pakistan holding a much smaller area. India got the more economically vibrant part. Aim of Pakistan: Get Kashmir, which was foiled.

Cease-fire, '65 Not much has been gained from both sides "status quo" stayed cease-fire declared,

Read as to how much terrotory India had gained in that war, which it was forced to give up on the cease fire. And read how much Pakistan had gained, and you decide who won, particularly when Pakistan started the war, thus it would obviously have some clear aims in mind, when it did. Did they fructify? IA would have split Pakistan if there had not been a cease fire.

and '71 Bangladesh got independance with help of India you guyies could call it victory, since you interefered in an internal affair but thats another story,.

SO?? Its not as though you did not have an army in the west? I mean the defense of the east was considered to be in the west isnt it? So you had an army in the west? Why did it not counter India??

but over all it's been a cease-fire so neither side should claim victory

Victory does not mean anhilating the other side, its about denying the aggresive party what it wants, meanwhile taking what you want. Tell me, in the 3 wars, launched by Pakistan, what did i acquire??? Meanwhile, India has acquired the major chunk of Kashmir, went till Lahore in teh next war, and systematically split Pakistan in the third. Is that not victory??

cause 1 India doesn't have all of Kashmir and neither does pakistan,

Yeah, but we didnt have any part of Kashmir before Pakistan attacked. It was that attack which forced the king to sign IOA with India. So we gotthe entire Kashmir legally, and have got most part of it, and the much better parrt economically.

get out of your stupid national pride Indian you didn't win and neither did pakistan if cease-fires keep getting declared,

Vicotry is about getting strategic aims fulfilled, not distroying the other country. I have listed them above.

and Kargil we might retreated after you ran to US and Co.,

Which Indian leader ran to the US. Read about Kargil before saying that India ran to the US. India won Kargil decisively.

but the militants had your asses before you even knew you lost Kargil at first,

Militants had out asses? Check the number of militants killed and the number of security forces killed in comparison. You would be shocked. Infilteration is declining, Militats have lost popular support, more and more are getting killed. I wonder why?

and 2nd not all of PA and PAF was involved like Indian army was, get up and smell the coffee.

Musharraf says himself that PA was involved, so how the hell can u deny that. The PAF could not get involved, because it would be tantamount to declaring war on India. Then India would open up other fronts. And please, if the PAF had gotten involved, do you think the IAF would not have crossed the LOC. India has twice the number of planes than Pakistan, and most of them technologically superior.

Sooner or later they would have made veggie rolls out of India Army, you guyies had to call in artilery

Why shouldnt we call in our artilary. Wre'r not stupid. Why does the US bomb the country rodiculously before sending in troops. Does that mean they are cowards or something or did they lose? Its simple, to avoid collateral damage. Bomb NLI back to extinction in the mountains, and then send troops, worked wonders. They were not using artillery in the begining, and they found it harder, so they used arty to softedn everything up. I think its just basic common sense.

and airforce aganist a militai that didn't have that luxury during

Like i said, if US is attacking Iraq, why wont US use F-22's, if it has them against Iraq, cuz it dont have them. This is not a man to man fight. I'l use what i got, i wont go alone cuz u cant get that stuff.

kargil, so that definetly wasn't a victory at all for you guyies, and got lucky pakistan was ordered to retreat after UN and US intervened.

Yeah RIGHT! Pakistan was MADE to retreat. Dude, wake up, Pakistan was pounded in Kargil, they were losing ehacily, if they had not retreated, they would have been wiped off.

Stop using stupid and small incidences are victory declarations, like just cuz hezbollah sent some rockets in Israel, they were considered victorious against Israel. In real terms, that meant less than nothing. Do you actually think Pakistan can win a full war against India?? Pakistan has military that is meant to just compete with India in short time, in a full blown war, it would be completely destroyed with time.