Kashmir should become independent from India.

[scorpionx]

Yes though the politics overshadowed it. Core issue has always been religious otherwise why the wish to join Pakistan?

I would though qualify it with independence being the intermediate step which they considered would be more palatable to india

Muslims were clearly divided on the issue of accession back then. Prevailing sentiment in the valley was to decide at their own. The tribal raid then came as a god gift to India. And today the wish to join Pakistan is less to do with religion but the grass is always greener on the other side.

The problem of Kashmir is not Kashmir, but the existence of the Indian nation state created as a second hand British imperialism. Solve the root cause of the problem will resolve the Kashmir conflict. Fight the disease, not the symptom.

So what do you prescribe?

 

[Spectre]

Muslims were clearly divided on the issue of acceion back then. Prevailing sentiment in the valley was to decide at their own. The tribal raid then came as a god gift to India. And today the wish to join Pakistan is less to do with religion but the grass is always greener on the other side.

I understand where you are coming from but such arguments are fluff. Why is there a problem in valley? Why does similar situation not exist in AP or Sikkim or Assam or NE or Rajasthan? Why did their people not wish for self determination to an extent Kashmir did? Barring Kashmir why most of the India is more or less politically accommodated?

One answer to all the questions - there is a single variant b/w Kashmir and all others - Religion. Remove religion and Kashmir becomes a non issue boundary state to the extent others are.

 

[scorpionx]

I understand where you are coming from but such arguments are fluff. Why is there a problem in valley? Why does similar situation not exist in AP or Sikkim or Assam or NE or Rajasthan? Why did their people not wish for self determination to an extent Kashmir did? Barring Kashmir why most of the India is more or less politically accommodated?

One answer to all the questions - there is a single variant b/w Kashmir and all others - Religion. Remove religion and Kashmir becomes a non issue boundary state to the extent others are.

Strange you brought AP and NE in the discussion. The vast maoist belt extol more lives than what we lose in Kashmir and not long ago a army convoy in Manipur was blown up by the insurgents. Of course, Maoists are not fighting for a separate country but it did not deter them from violence and taking lives of their own country men.

The difference between rest of India and Kashmir has been, predominantly, we gave a promise to J&K that the accession is purely provisional and later backed away completely from that position. We put their most popular leader into jail in a most undemocratic manner and placed a corrupt puppet in his place and the process continued then on. If you have applied the same policy in any other place the result would not have been much different.

 

[Great Sachin]

why..Pakistan dont want Kashmir?

 

[Spectre]

Strange you brought AP and NE in the discussion. The vast maoist belt extol more lives than what we lose in Kashmir and not long ago a army convoy in Manipur was blown up by the insurgents. Of course, Maoists are not fighting for a separate country but it did not deter them from violence and taking lives of their own country men.

The difference between rest of India and Kashmir has been, predominantly, we gave a promise to J&K that the accession is purely provisional and later backed away completely from that position. We put their most popular leader into jail in a most undemocratic manner and placed a corrupt puppet in his place and the process continued then on. If you have applied the same policy in any other place the result would not have been much different.

The main variance we see here is that fights in NE and AP are waning, there is no real threat or challenge to sovereignty and we see no mass support.

As for backtracking on promises and abortion of due process - we have seen examples going across length and breath of country from Up and Bihar to recently UK and AP

As for broken promise to people - there were mitigating circumstances chiefly Pakistan and wars waged on us - remember it was more of a bilateral matter b/w India and Pakistan and trilateral one. Once Pakistan reneged on the deal made, there was no incentive for India to carry with charade. Elections were held and Govt elected. End of Story.

Even belying that - what say did NE have when it was "drafted in" by India? To be honest people of India had very less say in the process and independence was never a real option for any province or principality.

 

[scorpionx]

The main variance we see here is that fights in NE and AP are waning, there is no real threat or challenge to sovereignty and we see no mass support.

As for backtracking on promises and abortion of due process - we have seen examples going across length and breath of country from Up and Bihar to recently UK and AP

As for broken promise to people - there were mitigating circumstances chiefly Pakistan and wars waged on us - remember it was more of a bilateral matter b/w India and Pakistan and trilateral one. Once Pakistan reneged on the deal made, there was no incentive for India to carry with charade. Elections were held and Govt elected. End of Story.

Even belying that - what say did NE have when it was "drafted in" by India? To be honest people of India had very less say in the process and independence was never a real option for any province or principality.

1. But we refuse to see any religious angle in these disturbed areas. That is a strange difference in attitude too.
2. These have not been very good signs of a healthy democracy, don't you agree?
3. I agree. Pakistan chose its own term to settle the dispute. It is ridiculous to serve them on a platter in the name of plebiscite today.
4. Unfortunately, unlike other state where any added clause to the instrument of accession was summarily rejected, it is GoI which added a proviso with the accession that declared the accession purely provisional. This has been the fundamental difference between Kashmir and any other Princely states. Why it was added, I think has been discussed in all breadth and length, but the argument against this provisional character does not seem sound just because similar things did not happen in other areas. The principle was clear, if ever a dispute arises regarding accession it will be settled through a referendum.

 

[Rahi812]

Dont forget Pakistani and Chinese occupied Kashmir.

Both India and Pakistan occupied Kashmir could be liberated and make a separate country.

It is also called "Begani Shadi mein Abdulla Deewana"

First of all it is not a Begani Shadi, it is an humantarian matter. I think both parts of Kashmir should be joined together and liberated.

 

[I M Sikander]

Both India and Pakistan occupied Kashmir could be liberated and make a separate country

That's requires a plebiscite under UNO.

 

[Rahi812]

That's requires a plebiscite under UNO.

For United Kashmir there is no plebscite required. Plebisccite is only required if question is asked which country they want to join.

 

[Asian.Century]

Indian Forces have created war like situation in Indian Occupied Kashmir

The Chairman of All Parties Hurriyet Conference, Syed Ali Gilani, condemned the continued killing spree by Indian forces in Indian held Kashmir.

Syed Ali Gilani in a statement issued in Srinagar said that Indian forces killed four peaceful protesters in Aripanthan area of Budgam on Tuesday in vengeance of the killing of their colleague at Nowhatta in Srinagar and fabricated a story of attacking and snatching the rifles by the protestors, reported Kashmir Media Service.

The APHC Chairman strongly denounced the occupation authorities for not allowing the people to conduct the march towards the UN office on Wednesday. He said, curfew continues in the territory for the last over 40th day, 72 people have been killed, more than 8,000 people are injured, about 500 have lost their eye sight, 1500 people have been arrested and more than 100 slapped with draconian Public Safety Act (PSA) and some have already been shifted to the jails outside the Valley.

Media and telecommunication have been gagged, streets are deserted, hospitals are overcrowded and the bullets are still piercing the chests of our loved ones, he stated.

https://timesofislamabad.com/category/national/

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/indian-f...indian-occupied-kashmir.445386/#ixzz4I0BiqXc6

 

[Finer]

That is not problem. The problem is Pakistan. Indians know as soon as IOK is free, IOK will immediately merge with Pakistan alongside with Azad Kashmir. So given the Indian hatred for Pakistan, i am afraid IOK is here to stay for the time being.

 

[Asian.Century]

That is not problem. The problem is Pakistan. Indians know as soon as IOK is free, IOK will immediately merge with Pakistan alongside with Azad Kashmir. So given the Indian hatred for Pakistan, i am afraid IOK is here to stay for the time being.

Hatred to Pakistan or not, it doesnot matter.

Kashmir is a never ending pain on India. It will take India down. It has muddied India into oblivion and look at the PM, riding on despearation and madness. India is on a downward trajectory. The only solution is indpendence of Kashmir, a separate country for kashmirs.

 

[jung41]

Hatred to Pakistan or not, it doesnot matter.

Kashmir is a never ending pain on India. It will take India down. It has muddied India into oblivion and look at the PM, riding on despearation and madness. India is on a downward trajectory. The only solution is indpendence of Kashmir, a separate country for kashmirs.

Its true Kashmir is pain on india but bro you are not looking at a bigger game plan, kashmir is disturbed agree but soon your so called game changer CPEC will be in deep trouble. What i heard is chinese are building fortress like roads on both sides of the roads to prevent attacks . Now once this fortress is created can you think of crossing it

 

[Asian.Century]

Kashmir solution is only this independence, stop Indian bleeding, stop Indian treasure waste, its weakened India internationally, financially India is broke, india is loosing day by day its international standings, it goes to beg US, China, Russia to work and isolate Pakistan.