Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Halaku Khan]

Perhaps we kept it low key because we did not want the people we were supporting to be tortured, massacred and buried in mass graves by Indian security forces like the tens of thousands of others.

But whatever the reason for keeping it 'low key', that does not answer my query of why not, given that India keeps certain 'leaders' on its payroll?

If Indian wanted to get rid of the Hurriyat, it could be done very easily. But that's not the way India functions.

The real reason why it is kept hidden is this - If it were to become widely known that some-one is on Pakistani payroll, they would lose all credibility in the eyes of the people of Jammu-Kashmir.

Not surprisingly, some Hurriyat people are trying to save face before the people. From the original article:

Meanwhile senior Hurriyat Leader Moulvi Abbas Ansari rubbished Bilal Lone's claims and termed the allegation as absolutely false.

Reacting on Lone's claims Ansari said, "I have no clue what Bilal has said. It is completely false.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The reason why it is kept hidden is this - If it were to become widely known that some-one is on Pakistani payroll, they would lose all credibility in the eyes of the people of Jammu-Kashmir.

Not a good reason - for years, accurately or not, Indians, Pakistanis and Kashmiris have taken as fact that Pakistan was supporting both separatist political leaders (as in this case) as well as insurgents fighting Indian security forces.

Therefore it makes little difference if someone openly accepts this fact now. The insistence of exclusively 'moral support' were for international consumption alone (which in any case no one bought).

 

[rajeev]

Hurriyat closes ranks after Qureshi attack, dialogue move gets boost

The attack on veteran separatist Fazal Haq Qureshi may have come as a sobering reminder to the Hurriyat moderates about the likely repercussions of their decision to hold talks with the Centre, but less than 10 days after the incident, the Hurriyat seems to be more positioned than ever to continue the dialogue process. And this time armed with a degree of moral high ground.

The Hurriyat, which was earlier split over internal differences over the “secret nature” of the engagement with New Delhi — with some leaders arguing it sowed suspicions among people — has closed ranks and resolved to get on with the dialogue.

Hurriyat chairman Mirwaiz Umar Farooq was quick to reiterate his commitment to continuing the dialogue soon after the Qureshi attack, stating that there was “no other option” but to “carry on talks with New Delhi and Pakistan”.

Qureshi’s own party, the People’s Political Front, has also come out strongly in favour of the talks. Senior PPF leader Musadiq Adil has said his party would not be “overawed and unnerved by the inhuman physical assault”.

“Those looking upon dialogue as a sellout are, in fact, demonstrating their intellectual bankruptcy and lack of confidence and vision,” Adil said.

In fact, Adil has turned around and accused separatist hardliners of “selling out”. In an oblique reference to Hurriyat hawk Syed Ali Shah Geelani, he said that those against the talks had contested polls and taken oath on the Constitution in the 1980s when Qureshi was languishing in jail for his separatist beliefs. “The PPF leadership has never compromised on its beliefs. Everyone knows when we were sent to jails and deprived of our government jobs, some people were contesting elections and taking oath on the Indian Constitution. Now the same people are accusing us of selling out,” Adil said.

Significantly, the attack on Qureshi has somewhat undermined the appeal of the hardliners. Their belligerent rhetoric has begun to ring hollow and their margin to run down the dialogue narrowed. In fact, Geelani has condemned the attack and has since said that the moderates are free to talk to the Centre even though he himself remains ideologically against such a move as “our stand is that 130 rounds of such dialogue haven’t achieved anything”.

The stage, for now, seems set for a new round of engagement between the Centre and Hurriyat. Leveraged by public sympathy over the attack, the doves have been momentarily able to fend off the political challenge from hawks. The ball is now in the Centre’s court. For, it won’t be long before this window of opportunity closes again.

I dont know why GoI is talking to Huriyat. Previously, I thought their concerns are legitimate and have reasons to deal with. Now with the revelation that these are paid Pakistani trolls, why is India negotiating with them? No wonder they stood for any elections as it might be apparent to themselves that they cannot win a popular support.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

how can you justify the people of India killed by the pakistan backed terrorists?we will let them choose which country they wish to be a part of once they get out the the pakistan backed separatist.

Your assertion hardly inspires any confidence given that India made no move to hold a UN officiated plebiscite before the insurgency started in the eighties, and in fact argued in favor of status quo and integration of Kashmir into the Indian constitution.

In other words, a blatant lie given past Indian behavior to the contrary when there was no insurgency.

So again, how can you justify continued occupation of the Kashmiris and their land by hundreds of thousands of Indian troops that deny them the right to self determination, after insisting and promising for years that you would give them that right?

 

[EjazR]

Moderates, hardliners are poles apart
Firdous Syed

Revolution eats its own children; assassination bid on senior separatist leader Fazal Haq Qureshi has proved this axiom right, beyond any doubt. Fazal Haq is fortunate; he survived attempt on his life, several other high profile separatist leaders were not so lucky. In the bedlam of past twenty years, Mirwiaz Molvi Farooq, Abdul Ghani Lone, Majid Dar and many others had to pay with their lives, merely for aspiring for a peaceful solution of Kashmir problem. Pakistan-backed militant organisations have always tried to scuttle any peace move between Srinagar and New Delhi.

Until now most of the time, enemies of the peace process have succeeded in destroying the prospects of peace. (Of course, New Delhi is also to be blamed for failure of repeated peace-making efforts, but that is a different story.) Attack on Qureshi has added a new twist to badly entangled separatist politics. This indicates growing frustrations within pro-Pak groups; militancy also has taken a turn for the worst.

On May 1990, Mirwiaz Molvi Farooq was killed by militants belonging to most radical cell of Hizbul Mujahideen, led by Abdullah Bangru. They even issued a press note owning the responsibility; Molvi Farooq father of present Mirwiaz Umar Farooq was never considered a separatist leader. The group withdrew the responsibility claim only after security forces went berserk; CRPF stationed at Islamia College without any provocation opened fire on the funeral procession. Dozens of Molvi’s supporters died in the indiscriminate firing. Late Mirwiaz who was pleading with the then Governor Jagmohan to take him into protective custody turned out to be a martyr, solely due to a mad act of CRPF. In a strange coincidence Abdul Ghani Lone was also killed while attending the death anniversary of Mirwiaz Farooq on 2002. Pro-Pak militant groups killed Ghani Lone; seemingly he had opened channels with Vajpayee’s government and was secretly talking with Brijesh Mishra. On March 2003, Majid Dar was also killed, perhaps by militants of his own organisation Hizbul Mujahideen. Molvi Farooq was more of a politician than a cleric; Ghani Lone had contested many elections and remained a minister in Mir Qasim’s cabinet. Lone joined the separatist ranks during the peak of militancy only after he was put into jail by the myopic administration under Jagmohan for harbouring JKLF militants. Among the three only Majid Dar was considered to be a hard-core separatist. But he had defied Hizb chief Syed Salah-ud-din. On July 2000, Dar had initiated a peace process with the Government of India. On August 3, a high level team of the Government of India headed by then Union Home Secretary Kamal Pande met publicly Hizb commanders in Srinagar, Fazal Haq Qureshi was leading the delegation.

More than frustration of militants who any way want to destroy every peace-making effort, it is a typical case of pupil becoming more ideological than the ideologue himself. In protracted conflicts more the new generations get sucked into the struggle, more they become radicalised. This is not unique with Kashmir; generation after Yasser Arafat in Palestine is much more radicalised. Hamas is completely a different entity in comparison to Fatah.



The two factions of Hurriyat differ on many issues; this is the first time they have acrimoniously taken an open stand against each other. Fiery public spat has widened the gulf between moderates and hardliners; they seem to be poles apart today.

As of today, Mirwaiz has taken a bold stand, “we will not be cowed down by such attacks.” Putting all his weight behind the talks he further said, “whenever there was some progress in sight towards the resolution of the Kashmir issue through peaceful means, certain individuals and agencies having a vested interest in political instability got unnerved and resorted to such dastardly acts to thwart the process.” Moderates have burned their boats; the ball is clearly in Delhi’s court. If peace process this time again fails to make any headway, moderates will be completely obliterated in Kashmir. This will leave the field wide open for Geelani, who already occupies much of the separatist space in the valley.

 

[rajeev]

Not a good reason - for years, accurately or not, Indians, Pakistanis and Kashmiris have taken as fact that Pakistan was supporting both separatist political leaders (as in this case) as well as insurgents fighting Indian security forces.

Therefore it makes little difference if someone openly accepts this fact now. The insistence of exclusively 'moral support' were for international consumption alone (which in any case no one bought).

You mean to say that you were aware of the fact Pakistan was not just sponsoring terrorists in India, but also paying Huriyat. Apparently, most Pakistanis here in this forum and all Indians thought of them as a separatist movements. It clearly shows why they were flying Pakistani flag out there and there goes your theory of overwhelming preference of Kashmiris to join Pakistan.

I have a lot of respect for you and you always talked about being in higher moral ground, but when you are now turning around and saying that these are known facts - it makes me really disbelieve. Are you talking of same Pakistan which you previously was abused by India and wrongly alleging of supporting terrorists in India, wrongly blaming for causing political tensions in Kashmir?

How can you even argue on this point? This is clear and shut case of what drama was going on. No wonder this Huriyat contested elections because they apparently know they would have to reveal their income sources. This negates any activity of popular support as per your claim and clearly shows who is instigating these issues.

You had previously posted a video link of terrorist wanted in Pakistan claiming that India is funding him. Your Rehman Malik claimed having all the evidence but cant show it in public. It is same Rehman Malik who never knew of drone attacks permitted by GoP and it is same Rehman Malik who dont recall negotiating with America for allowing Blackwater in. Other than wide ranging claims of India helping insurgents there is no shred of evidence provided.

But here are the things clearly proved:
* Pakistan supported and funded militants in India.
* Pakistan also paid Kashmir so-called thugs (Huriyat)
* Pakistanis attacking India on regular basis - Mumbai, Parliment, Agra, Jaipuar, Mumbai train attacks ,.....
* Pakistan attacked India in 1965 for no apparent reason.
* Pakistan apparently attacked just under a month of "friendship bus" in Kargil.
* Pakistan blaiming India for funding TTP. Funny that they have the evidence but nothing can be proven. Yes, they found a bag of ammonium nitrate from Vaghai Industries whereas a consignment of few tons from Pakistan was unloaded in Calcutta.

Unfortunately, India with size, economic strength, military strength and population has achieved virtually nothing. A country that is hell bent on destroying and damaging India and Indian government just watching it.

 

[EjazR]

All Parties Hurriyat Conference is an umbrella organisation. Not just one party. It consists of multiple big and small parties mostly moderates some hardliners.

Not all were taking money and some were sincirely thinking that what they were doing is right. Hence it makes sense to talk to those Hurriyat party leaders who want to talk. No one is talking to Geelani and neither does he want anyone to talk to Delhi. So if talks are irking Geelani, obviously GoI is doing something right.

 

[Halaku Khan]

Perhaps we kept it low key because we did not want the people we were supporting to be tortured, massacred and buried in mass graves by Indian security forces like the tens of thousands of others.

In fact, India goes to great lengths to keep the aged Syed Ali Gilani alive, making sure he gets the best treatment in hospitals in Delhi and Srinagar.

He keeps harping on unification with Pakistan, and imposition of Sharia Law. That serves as a useful reminder to the people about the nightmare of Talibanization that they will descend into, should the separatists get their way.

 

[Spitfighter]

When the Kashmiris speak for themselves, you call them traitors and terrorists. When they hold mass rallies, you call them riots. When they protest, you arrest them. When all else fails, they pick up the gun, and you refuse to acknowledge that they are freedom fighters.

1. The GoI is involved in talks with every major political party in Kashmir, we'll resolve our differences. We don't need Pakistan's input, thanks.
2. AFAIK the government has to sanction a rally, if those 'rallies' (riots) weren't sanctioned, appropriate action was taken to restore order.
3. Murdering innocent civilians isn't the same as fighting for ones freedom. Gandhi and Bose aren't in the same league as Osama and the LeT

Clearly, under these circumstances, Pakistan has every right to stand up speak on behalf of the Kashmiris and Kashmir

Wrong, Pakistan needs to mind its own business. Kashmir isn't yours and India will make sure that it never will be. Pakistan doesn't have any credibility when it comes to Kashmir. The Balochis complain of mistreatment, perhaps the GoI should advocate for their rights no?

How exactly did you conclude that Pakistan has a legitimate stake in Kashmir?

those who were conned into Indian Occupation when Pakistan was created.

Maybe you were conned into believing that they were conned. Our tribals didn't cause the mess, yours did, Kashmir was invaded in '48 in the name of 'freedom' so I think Pakistan has done enough for the Kashmiris already. Thanks but no thanks.

Heck, if it weren't for us, who knows how far India would have gone in Kashmir?

If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have had this problem to begin with.

Probably would have put Israel to shame.

Israel maybe, Pakistan never. India can never top what the Taliban pulled in Afghanistan with Pakistan's support. Good job there by the way, and here you are talking about human rights

Did Pakistan ever consider 'human rights' when it was busy establishing strategic depth in Afghanistan? Even today Pakistan does little to nothing against the Afghan Taliban so clearly human rights are the least of your concerns.

The minds of the Kashmiris on this side of the border was made when they decided to join this federation, you still haven't allowed the ones on your side basic human and civil rights. Living like prisoners on their own soil, that my friend, is Occupation 101.

Oh yeah? how did the Kashmiris 'decide'? when your tribals and army invaded (in the name of freedom of course)?

There were no cases of brutality in Kashmir before Pakistan spawned an insurgency in the 80's. That my friend is an attempt to grab land.

We're not on any high horses, you're the ones living in la-la land. You can't solve any problems when you fail to recognize their existence.

Not on high horses, I'll give you that.

You're just in denial.

 

[haawk]

And perhaps some of the politicians elected under elections held by India create a 'fake impression' that Kashmiris want to be a part of India, since they are effectively under 'India's payroll'.

Why is it alright for India to 'pay' pro-India Kashmiris as legislators and it is not alright for Pakistan to pay the parties that advocate for an end to Indian occupation and an implementation of the UNSC resolutions that India, Pakistan and the world committed to until India reneged on its commitment?

you cannot accept it can you?!!!!!!
second reasoning by you:india pays pro-india kashmiris as legislators?????
these kashmiris believe they are indian and take part in elections......what is your logic here ......

 

[Creder]

kashmiris dont like you...if it were just a "bunch" of seperatists on pakistani payroll you'd have nothing to worry about...but yeah its your wishful thinking that majority of kashmiris are die hard indian fans ...truth couldnt be farther away... its not our fault you wanna live in a dreamworld created.

 

[Creder]

these people have been denied basic human rights for over half a century, if helping them stand up for their rights puts them on our payroll..we'd be more than obliged to do so

AFP: Conflict-weary Kashmir marks 20 yrs of insurgency

AFP: Conflict-weary Kashmir marks 20 yrs of insurgency


AFP: Conflict-weary Kashmir marks 20 yrs of insurgency


AFP: Conflict-weary Kashmir marks 20 yrs of insurgency

 

[Valiant_Soul]

The only 'nefarious' design here is the Indian state continuing to occupy a people and their land and refusing to allow a free and fair plebiscite under which Kashmiris (either in the entire state or various formulations that have been suggested) could choose which nation they wish to be a part of.

The land belongs to the nation. If people living there want to be citizen of some other nation, they are free to move out or they are free to settle here and call it their home.

 

[toxic_pus]

I'm sorry, but what exactly is wrong with Pakistan funding the parties that argue against Indian occupation of disputed territory that Pakistan claims as well?

You mean besides making it apparent that the so called 'popular' sentiment is actually a result of incitement by Pakistan and therefore, in reality, it is not a 'people's' movement, but merely a ruse to achieve Pakistan's irredentist ambitions, altogether putting an enormous question mark on the claim of 'spontaneity' of the so called 'Kashmir freedom struggle'; on the 'legitimacy' of any movement that calls for accession to Pakistan, or even independence; on the 'free and fairness' of any plebiscite if held (and thus validating India's stand); on the credibility of the leaders (who, although claim to be representative of people of Kashmir, are in reality, representative of Pakistan).

Nope, there is nothing wrong. Everything is hunky-dory. Its business as usual.

 

[toxic_pus]

When the Kashmiris speak for themselves, you call them traitors and terrorists. When they hold mass rallies, you call them riots. When they protest, you arrest them. When all else fails, they pick up the gun, and you refuse to acknowledge that they are freedom fighters.

If that useful idiots claim is indeed true, then these claims become a sackful of bugpoo.