Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[humblehobbes]

Towards Kashmir talks

“There is no place,” Prime Minister Manmohan Singh announced from the ramparts of the Red Fort on Independence Day, “for separatist thought in Jammu and Kashmir.” Less than three months later, persuaded that this summer’s street protests demonstrated that Kashmiri secessionists have both reach and influence, the central government has changed tack. During his visit to Srinagar last week, Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram announced that New Delhi would be seeking to renew the long-stalled dialogue process. He correctly acknowledged that there is a political problem in Kashmir and it has to be solved. Jammu and Kashmir’s unique history necessitated a unique solution, he urged, using language that was different from New Delhi’s standard official rhetoric. Mr. Chidambaram made the case for quiet, behind-the-scenes talks: a constructive dialogue, as he put it, rather than a photo opportunity. That dialogue, highly-placed government sources have told The Hindu, is already under way: separatist leaders, including All Parties Hurriyat Conference chief Mirwaiz Umar Farooq and the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front leader, Yasin Malik, have met with high-level functionaries in the Union Home Ministry. The effort is to work out a framework both sides can live with — and ensure that the talks are built on foundations strong enough to endure political storms.

Will the effort succeed? There is of course no guarantee it will. In January 2004, Deputy Prime Minister L.K. Advani met with the Hurriyat leadership for the first time. The ground was prepared and Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee announced that the only precondition for negotiations was humanism. This was followed up by a second meeting that March. Prime Minister Singh held two more rounds of talks in May and September 2005. Fearful of the jihadist wrath, the Hurriyat never brought a serious agenda to the table. In March 2006, APHC leaders promised to attend Dr. Singh’s all-party Roundtable Conference on Jammu and Kashmir only to back off in the face of terrorist threats. Two challenges now lie ahead. First, J&K’s fractious secessionist groups must agree on a road map for progress. Mirwaiz Farooq has set up a committee to engage his archrival, Islamist hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani; it can only be hoped the talks are fruitful. Secondly, Islamabad’s support for the dialogue process must be secured. Pakistan would do well to appoint an envoy to continue the secret dialogue held by Satinder Lambah and Tariq Aziz, which yielded a set of agreed principles for a resolution of the Kashmir conflict in 2006. Mr. Chidambaram meanwhile must be applauded for taking a significant step forward in the knowledge that the journey to peace will be a long, hard trudge, littered with political minefields.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/...2009102255520800.htm&date=2009/10/22/&prd=th&

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

chinese..........there a song by MJ...{dangerous}....

perhaps these 4 foot people are dangerous....

 

[Iggy]

Because if we settled the Kashmir issue we will start missing each other a lot and the find another reason to fight against each other..So its better stick with kashmir ;-)

 

[rajeev]

I say make the LOC a permanent border and finish off this dispute once and for all.
Let the Kashmiris fight for their own homeland if they want to. If they wanted to be liberated; they wouldn't have helped the Indian Military in smoking out our commandos in Kargil. This thing has dragged down our country in a bottomless pit.

I think that is a good solution. And I am guessing most rational Indians would agree.

May be also have an easy regime of visa for Kashmiris to visit both sides of Kashmir.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

why P. O. K was changed to ***** in my previous post. You cannot decide what to call to a piece of land. As long as people are not breaking rules, it should be allowed.

The word is censored - this is a Pakistani forum and it is our policy to censor P-O-K and only allow Azad Kashmir, Pakistani Kashmir, PaK etc.

Indians may not like it, but that is forum policy - please respect it if you wish to participate on the forum.

 

[desiman]

The word is censored - this is a Pakistani forum and it is our policy to censor P-O-K and only allow Azad Kashmir, Pakistani Kashmir, PaK etc.

Indians may not like it, but that is forum policy - please respect it if you wish to participate on the forum.

Brother i respect the fact that you are trying to protect the emotions of pakistani's but in India we dont call it azad kashmir or any of the other names you mentioned. What Abhay said is not wrong in any way as that is what it is called in India. No hard feelings there. In regards to this being a pakistani forum, thats for sure but i can guarantee you that this forum would not be successful without the Indian members contribution, there is no fun without someone criticizing you or else people continue to live in their dream worlds lol

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Nice policy to keep Indian away. Simple way, just don't allow them to join this forum. I know, you might ban me for writing this.

If you wish to stay away merely for not being able to write P-O-K, then that is your choice. As you can see however, we probably have more Indian members than Pakistani ones despite that.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Brother i respect the fact that you are trying to protect the emotions of pakistani's but in India we dont call it azad kashmir or any of the other names you mentioned. What Abhay said is not wrong in any way as that is what it is called in India. No hard feelings there. In regards to this being a pakistani forum, thats for sure but i can guarantee you that this forum would not be successful without the Indian members contribution, there is no fun without someone criticizing you or else people continue to live in their dream worlds lol

DD - Freedom to express oneself within reason is what keeps members here, not the ability to write P-O-K.

That word has been banned almost since we were founded, and many Indians still love participating here.

 

[Enigma SIG]

I think that is a good solution. And I am guessing most rational Indians would agree.

May be also have an easy regime of visa for Kashmiris to visit both sides of Kashmir.

Simply put; the egos on both sides are too tough to break. Make the LOC the permanent border and allow Kashmiris ONLY to visit the other side without a visa.

And then hopefully the Indian and Pakistani military can doze off and the civilian governments can use the extra money to lift the millions in the Sub-continent out of poverty.

 

[vkurian]

the reasons i think are

1] india is an imperial colonial power, just look at whats happening in northeast,jharkand and other maoist infected areas.

2] india is an evil empire ,in disguise of seculerism, govt of india is helping fanatic terror groups like shivsina,dharmasina,rss etc to eliminate all the minorities and make inda a hindu rashtra. one should remember the present govt of congress known to be a SECULER PARTY WAS THE REASON FOR DEHLI MASSACE AND OPERATION BLUE STAR

3] any concession to kashmir means ,indians have to give the same to other more than 14 states who are fighting for their God gifted right. so KASHMIRIS SHOULD FORGET INDEPENDENCE BECAUSE THEIR INDEPENDENCE MEANS DISINTEGRATION OF INDIA EMPIRE.

4] the attitude of indians clearly REFLECTS THAT THEY ARE NOT INTRESTED IN KASHMIRI PPL AND THEY CAN ARRANGE A NEW GENOCIDE TO ELEMINATE ALL MUSLIM KASHMIRIES SO THAT NO ONE SHOWS DISSENT. FROM INDIAN VIEW POINT KASHMIRI LAND IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE POOR MUSLIM INHABITANTS.

5] the indian GOVT THINKS IT IS A BIG MARKET AND GREAT POWERS HAVE GREAT INTREST IN ITS MARKET. SO THEY CAN EASILY GET AWAY FROM GENOCIDE OF KASHMIRIES AND GROSS HUMAN RIGHT ABUSES AGAINST POPULATION.

6.] THE KASHMIR FREEDOM STRUGGLE HAS CAUSED GREAT LOSSES TO INDIAN EMPIRE. INDIAN ARMY AND PARAMILITARIES ARE TURNING MENTAL CASES. ACCORDING TO INDIAN CHEIF 100 SOLDIERS ON THE AVERAGE COMMIT SUSIDE EVERY YEAR AND 250 ALONE COMMITED SUSIDE OR KILLED THEIR FELLOWS IN 2005. SIMILARLY DUE TO MENTAL BANKRUPSY INDIANS ARE ACQUISEING NEIGHBORS EVEN SPREADING AIDS IN THE RANKS JUST TO HIDE THE SHAME AND DISHONOR OF THEIR ARMIES ACTS AND CONDUCTS.THERE FORE ITS QUITE VISIBLE THAT INDIA A HOLLOW NUCLEAR POWER WILL NEVER GIVE KASHMIRIS WHAT THEY WANT. IT WILL ELIMINATE THEM ALL IF THEY KEEP ON ASKING FREEDOM BUT WILL NEVER COMPLY WITH WISHES OF REPRESSED PPL

india is illegalay occuping kashmir. it want to occupy azad kashmir and our northern areas also so that
1] it could have link to central asia, remember the wakhan belt[afghanistan] which is only few km between us and cental asia

2] india want to cut the link between us and china

its a realist world where strategic and national intrest are more precious than low of morality or religon.

pro peace propoganda by indians is only a time gaining and diverting tactics.

do you think if we agree on loc as permanent boarder. peace will prevail and kashmir issue will end?????????????

no it will never
read the indian history read how indians occupied independent states of sikkim, jnagarh, hyderabad etc.

the problem with us is that although we have 1000 year of experence we still fail to understand enemies thought process and how he acts

Whatever be the reason ....... Your head line is the bottomline.

Thanks for getting it right.

 

[Incredible India]

It is unbelievable but Srinagar has changed beyond recognition in the past four years since I was there last. Right from the swanky new airport to the hotel, a distance of about 10 km, there is modern construction.

However, trees have been cut down mercilessly to accommodate fancy thoroughfares. Walls running along the road have been demolished and the rubble is there for all to see. As I covered the journey to my hotel, I missed the old Kashmiri houses from where women with long trinkets would peer out.

Shops are well stocked and full of customers. Too much money is flowing in and the guess is that it is from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and India in that order. The number of cars on the road is many times more than before. There are traffic jams and one has to keep the snarls in mind when one plans a trip. People move freely. I saw many women on the road without burka or headwear.

Militancy is by and large over. Some terrorists strike once in a while. They attacked the police at Lal Chowk recently. But I get the feeling that the media magnifies stray incidents. When attacks were a regular feature, there was curfew after sunset. Now the people are on the road even at 11 pm.

I did not see a single policeman on the road from the airport. Bunkers are mostly gone. I found one at Lal Chowk where some policemen stood with their fingers on the trigger. Papa One and Papa Two, the interrogation centres, have been closed. But detentions still take place. The biggest worry is the occasional disappearance of youth. Incidents like the rape of two women at Shopian are rare. But whenever they take place, they infuriate the people to the extent that they come out on the streets.

The mode of search, whether of a vehicle or a person, has changed. Policemen are more polite and less intrusive. Still a member of a very respected family told me how he and his wife were stopped on the road. A policeman wanted to search the woman but on his insistence a female officer did so.

The anti-India feeling is there beneath the surface. People are not afraid of saying so. However, pro-Pakistan sentiments have practically disappeared, more because of the Kashmiris’ perception of the mess in which the country is.

I found the Hurriyat leaders sober. One leader told me that they had vibes from Delhi that something positive would emerge. They are looking forward to talks with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. There is an effort to have a consensus among the different parties, including the Hurriyat, before the prime minister’s arrival. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah wants New Delhi to talk to all political parties but has also emphasised that India should have a dialogue with Pakistan to resolve the Kashmir problem.

It was an interesting talk which I heard when I was sitting with the Hurriyat leaders. A young Pakistani American told them that what had surprised him after the span of three years since his last visit was that Kashmir was ‘being assimilated by India quickly’. They were embarrassed but did not want to reply to him in my presence.

Born in Kashmir, this young man is a member of a think tank in Washington. He told them that free state elections, watched by a large number of Americans on televisions, had made a great impression. He said they were beginning to believe that the problem was ‘more or less over’.

Former chief minister Farooq Abdullah is more candid than his son, Omar, who is losing his popularity fast. Farooq says there are ‘paid lobbies’ in the state to keep the problem alive. He accuses security forces, politicians and bureaucrats of having ‘a vested interest in the Kashmir crisis’. He has a point when he says that New Delhi has failed to make headway in resolving the problem. Not many solutions are hawked about now.

There is a suggestion that both Kashmirs should be demilitarised, India withdrawing its forces from the valley and stationing them on its border and Pakistan doing likewise and pulling out its forces from Azad Kashmir. But this depends on India and Pakistan reaching a settlement, supported by the Kashmiris.

The problem of Jammu and Ladakh has become ticklish. They do not want to stay with the valley. Jammu wants to join India and Ladakh wants a union territory status. True, the Hurriyat has never tried to woo Jammu and has seldom cared for the Kashmiri Pandits languishing there. Still both Jammu and Ladakh can be brought around if they were to be given an autonomous status by the valley within the state.

I have no doubt that the Kashmir problem will be solved sooner or later. But too much has happened in the state in the past. This makes it difficult for the old Kashmir to come back to life. Familiar symbols are dying. Sufism has been replaced by assertive teachings. Kashmiri music is dying out because society has been forced to acquire a religious edge. Old crafts attract fewer artisans because there is a race to earn a quick buck. The wazwan, a string of Kashmiri dishes served at one sitting, is still there but new cooks are hard to get.

The reintegration of Muslims and Pandits appears difficult. An Islamic identity has taken shape, reportedly more in the countryside. Kashmiriyat, a secular ethos, is beyond repair. The animosity among the three regions Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh, may dilute but will remain. It may still remain the state of Jammu and Kashmir. But its soul would be missing.

DAWN.COM | Columnists | Kashmir without a soul

 

[EjazR]

Former Valley militants turn to Indian Govt for relief

It's another sign of the changing times in Kashmir. Former militants who earlier refused to recognise the sovereignty of India are now organising themselves into groups to demand their rehabilitation by the Government.

Over the past one month, two such groups — Released Militants’ Rehabilitation Forum and J-K People's Rights Movement — have been formed in north Kashmir, once the fountainhead of jihad in the Valley. Though the former militants are still grappling to emerge from the shadows, the extraordinary nature of their message stands out loud and clear — they speak out against the separatist leadership, complain bitterly about being let down by them, recount the ordeals they went through, list their sacrifices and, of course, seek compensation. And they have no problem if that help comes from New Delhi.

“We put our lives on the line for the cause of Kashmir. We lost everything. But what did we get? While the leaders enjoy comfortable lives, our families have been torn apart,” laments Ghulam Muhammad Mir, who heads the Released Militants’ Rehabilitation Forum.

Mir does not mince words about what they see as the “betrayal” of Islamabad. “The same Pakistan which pitted us against India now welcomes and hosts the mainstream leaders. We feel cheated,” he says, in a reference to PDP president Mehbooba Mufti's high-profile visit to Pakistan recently.

Mir claims his forum comprises around 300 released militants, and says they are open to other former militants who wish to join. The forum, he says, will pool money to give financial help to them.

The first meeting of the Released Militants’ Rehabilitation Forum was held in Mir's native village, Kichhama, on April 6, with about a hundred former militants present. Another is planned at the nearby district headquarters Baramulla. “Then we will hold one in Srinagar,” says Mir.

A parallel group, the J-K People’s Rights Movement, has already taken its campaign to Srinagar. On April 4, the group held its meeting at a hotel in the summer capital where its members related their stories to a packed hall. They talked of torture, killings, suicides and unemployment.

Abdul Qadeer Dar, a former commander who heads the group, says they had formed it to fight for the rights of all released militants. “We have given up guns. Now we want to talk and share our troubles.”

 

[Halaku Khan]

Huge anti-Pak protests in Azad Kashmir, violence erupts
ANI


Published on Sat 24th Oct 2009 07:45:31
Updated On Sat 24th Oct 2009 07:46:51
Islamabad, Oct 24:

Kashmiris from all walks of life observed a “Black Day” in Pakistan Kashmir, including capital Muzaffarabad, on the occasion of the 62nd anniversary of the invasion of the area by Pakistani army men disguised as tribesmen from the North West Frontier of Province (NWFP), known as the Lashkars.

A large number of people, carrying black flags and protest placards, participated in demonstrations held in various parts of Pakistan Kashmir.

Among the participants were Arif Shahid, the general secretary of the All Party National Alliance (APNA), Baltistan National Front leader Nawaz Khan Naji and Abdul Hamid Khan, the Chairman of Balawaristan National Front, besides others.

So vociferous were the protests by the almost 800-odd participants, that security forces deployed to ensure maintenance of law and order, had to use teargas shells and firing in the air to disperse them.

Some of them said that Jammu and Kashmir would never have been a subject of dispute had then newly created Pakistan not launched an "unprovoked tribal aggression against the Kashmiris" over six decades ago.

“This was an unprovoked aggression against the people, against the state of Jammu and Kashmir on the 22nd of October 1947,” said Arif Shahid, general secretary of the All Party National Alliance (APNA), and added, it was important to recall “historical facts and put things in the right perspective.”

For the last six decades, this region which Islamabad administers is has been subjected to the worst cases of human rights violations.

While successive governments in Pakistan have asserted that Kashmir’s political future must be determined in accordance with the wishes of its people, yet its own constitutional provisions deny political choices to Kashmiris on its side with the exception of supporting its accession to Pakistan.

One unnamed leader of a Kashmir-based party claimed that authorities in Islamabad were only interested in occupying land in whichever way possible. He cited the recent decision of appointing a governor for the disputed area of Gilgit-Baltistan as proof of territorial acquisition.

India and Pakistan have fought two wars over Kashmir since gaining independence from British colonial rule in 1947. The dispute has now been further compounded by an increased activity from countries like China.

China has in recent years increased its presence in Gilgit Baltistan and in the Karakoram ranges in the pretext of carrying out developmental projects.

A recent report indicated a massive military build up of over 10,000 Chinese soldiers in the disputed region.

Meanwhile, the All Parties Hurriyat Conference (APHC) in Pakistan Kashmir has said that it will hold a peaceful sit-in and march on October 27.

The sit-in and march would be held in front of the UN Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP) in Muzaffarabad to express solidarity with the people of Kashmir and to urge the world community to focus on the Kashmir problem.

A statement issued here on Thursday said that APHC would also present a memorandum on Kashmir to the UNMOGIP office Muzaffarabad.

It maybe recalled that the tribal invasion of 1947 had resulted in nearly a third of the territory now known as Azad Jammu and Kashmir, or Pakistan-administered Kashmir, falling to the raiders before the then Maharaja (King) of Kashmir, Hari Singh, pleaded to India for help.

Indian troops were then airlifted into the Kashmir Valley on October 27, and they succeeded in blocking the tribal army''s advance beyond Baramulla District in the north of the Kashmir Valley.

 

[Halaku Khan]

^^^ It is good to see these people in Azad Kashmir expressing themselves, but one is also somewhat concerned. Protesters in Balochistan have been put down with an iron fist. Hope these people stay safe.

 

[Halaku Khan]

Pakistani policemen beat Kashmiri nationalists during a protest rally in Muzaffarabad on October 24, 2009.



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