Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[RamGorur]

^^ Congrats. You know how to copy paste. Now buy yourself some candy.

 

[Subramanian]

Thanks to you and other Indians that have admitted that their was bloodshed and genocide by India in IOK for past sixty years and it was not 1987 revolt after which things gone worst. Thanks for this admission Karan and other Indians. It was really unexpected. I was talking about the killings of youth in past three months but you admitted that you are killing Kashmiris for the past sixty years. Thanks again.

I dont think so.The army presence increased in the valley only after 1987.The issue was very legitimate as long the pandits lived there peacefully.The moment Muslims started slaughtering the pandits India had to increase its military presence and i dont think the kashmiri muslims have any right to object to this.the moment you make the issue religious you start taking sides with pakistan over india.It is their fault that they chose to sleep with the army in their backyards.

 

[Subramanian]

Then why did the opposite happen with Junagadh?

I ll tell u the crux of the whole problem.Despite all this secular bollocks,hindus of india hate islam from the bottom of their hearts.All this country from the Afghanistan to Bangladesh was all hindu country in all forms.Muslims are aliens.so we dont want to give up any piece of our land to them.The ones who are already there are free to live in peace with us,if they trust us.so whether Kashmir or Junagadh,it is all ours.we dont agree with this idea of partition.It was the case back then and it ll always be the case.Because unlike muslims our religion and lifestyle is based on this tropical land and this is what we worship.All our gods and their qualities that we admire is all ultimatelty our respect shown for our motherland and that ll always be the essence of hindu people.Thats why.

 

[Subramanian]

No, Pak must never surrender its position for it is the only issue the nation agrees on and is a neutral subject for all parties who run the nation ( ISI,Army, fundamentalists and occasionally some odd Pol party, in that order ) can agree without treading on each others toes.

Pak must never give up its stance on J&K for it would then run the risk of disintegrating. Disintegration of Pak would not be a good option for the region & the world.

J&K gives PA a reason to stay in control .

No. Of the two options , holding on to its stand on J&K is better. Helps channelize energies.

In any case, the dream of utopia often is better than achieving it.

Disintegration of pakistan wont harm anything.It ll cause an imbalance in the region as India ll have 2 Afghanistans nearby with hard core jihadi elements controlling it and this ll polarise the sub continent bigtime.but pakistan was never stable.Democracy was never there in pakistan and the army always had the upper edge in the functioning.It was always a military state with more dictators than democratically elected heads of state.

The pakistani civil society has been the biggest failure as they never help build a stable state.

 

[VCheng]

I ll tell u the crux of the whole problem.Despite all this secular bollocks,hindus of india hate islam from the bottom of their hearts.All this country from the Afghanistan to Bangladesh was all hindu country in all forms.Muslims are aliens.so we dont want to give up any piece of our land to them.The ones who are already there are free to live in peace with us,if they trust us.so whether Kashmir or Junagadh,it is all ours.we dont agree with this idea of partition.It was the case back then and it ll always be the case.Because unlike muslims our religion and lifestyle is based on this tropical land and this is what we worship.All our gods and their qualities that we admire is all ultimatelty our respect shown for our motherland and that ll always be the essence of hindu people.Thats why.

Un petite question:

In addition to the above, is it also your contention that natives who lived here for thousands of years but converted to another religion no longer belong to the land by virtue of their personal beliefs?

This begs another question:

How does this unsupportable contention then extend to the multitude of religions that have existed for thousands of years in the sub-continent?

Your original post is therefore incorrect on mutiple levels.

 

[VCheng]

^^ Congrats. You know how to copy paste. Now buy yourself some candy.

You would be surprised at what else I know how to do!

Now lemme go find me some candy!

Calm down dude, the text is there so that some of us may gain something from reading the Resolution directly, and do something that is alien to quite a lot of posters here: THINK!

 

[Subramanian]

Un petite question:

In addition to the above, is it also your contention that natives who lived here for thousands of years but converted to another religion no longer belong to the land by virtue of their personal beliefs?

This begs another question:

How does this unsupportable contention then extend to the multitude of religions that have existed for thousands of years in the sub-continent?

Your original post is therefore incorrect on mutiple levels.

Our rulers were all muslim since 1000 years and until 1850,that was the case.

The people are entitled to their rights,no doubt.

And buddhism,jainism,sikhism and many tribal religions have always co existed in india but the book religions of islam and christianity are the only ones to have a problem in co-existing peacefully.Does it ring a bell bro?

Of all these religions,it is only muslims who claim themselves to be different and this and that.How is it the case that 10% of the population think they are too cool to be with other people?i cant get the idea behind this.

we dont like our motherland to be partitioned and given to invaders who kept themselves aloof from the rest of the population.

and then why do the Jatts and Khatris of punjab get slaughtered by their own naukars and workmen.why shud they give up their land bro.Is it their problem the muslims of punjab dont have a real hobby and instead indulge in reproduction.why do these numbers play a role.

Why should india protect their minority rights when pakistan is slaughtering their minorities off into subjugation.

why is Lahore,an 85% non-muslim city gets evacuated and is thrown to the wolves.

There are too many whys here in partition?and if u forget indian bureaucracy and army is full of Punjabis and haryanvi Jats,the ones u slaughtered ur way to glory.

 

[karan.1970]

Kashmir was not given to India. Infact Kashmiris were NEVER ask what they want.

The India forced the mahraja to sign joining India as condition to send its forces to defend Kashmir against rebellion.

You mean the terrorists that came in from Pakistan to loot and **** Kashmiris and force them into submission. So intent were they on looting and raping that they stopped short of Srinagar and wasted a large amount of time indulging in those activities. That gave Maharaja time to acceed to India and Indian forces to intervene and stop the irregular army in their tracks.

 

[mattoo]

I will not go into the legal details but mention just this - Pakistan has its own embassy in India. Do you know, when and how a country can have an embassy in another country?

AFAIK, after the fall of Dhaka, (rump state of formerly western) Pakistan withdrew all embassy staff. The chanceries at Mumbai (then Bombay) and Delhi were evacuated and full relations were restored in August 1974.

The chanceries were then given to the new embassy staff. This is something interesting that even I did not know until I asked certain relations of mine in the diplomatic corps (now retd.).

Point being, all relations with undivided Pakistan were renegotiated on fresh terms. As the victor of the 71 conflict, it was India's prerogative to act as such.

 

[VCheng]

Our rulers were all muslim since 1000 years and until 1850,that was the case.

The people are entitled to their rights,no doubt.

And buddhism,jainism,sikhism and many tribal religions have always co existed in india but the book religions of islam and christianity are the only ones to have a problem in co-existing peacefully.Does it ring a bell bro?

Of all these religions,it is only muslims who claim themselves to be different and this and that.How is it the case that 10% of the population think they are too cool to be with other people?i cant get the idea behind this.

we dont like our motherland to be partitioned and given to invaders who kept themselves aloof from the rest of the population.

I do understand where you are coming from.

However, one should look at the entire history of human civilizations, as well as migration of populations, ideas and religions.

If one takes that broader view, what has happened in the sub-continent is no different than many other places and times.

Surely, in the 21st century, our thought processes should move beyond this particular aspect that you refer to.

 

[r3alist]

indian army are killing kashmiri children - whats new?

 

[Indian9]

You mean the terrorists that came in from Pakistan to loot and **** Kashmiris and force them into submission. So intent were they on looting and raping that they stopped short of Srinagar and wasted a large amount of time indulging in those activities. That gave Maharaja time to acceed to India and Indian forces to intervene and stop the irregular army in their tracks.

And these people are sooo proud of the actions of their "brave irregular army". I see it on almost every Pakistani forum that I visit.

 

[karan.1970]

btw.. The following line stands out

When it is established to the satisfaction of the Commission set up in accordance with the Council's resolution 39 (1948) that the tribesmen are withdrawing and that arrangements for the cessation of the fighting have become effective,

Has any commission set up by UN so far has certified that it has been established to their satisfaction that the tribesmen etc are withdrawing?

 

[Subramanian]

I do understand where you are coming from.

However, one should look at the entire history of human civilizations, as well as migration of populations, ideas and religions.

If one takes that broader view, what has happened in the sub-continent is no different than many other places and times.

Surely, in the 21st century, our thought processes should move beyond this particular aspect that you refer to.

I feel if there has to be a solution,then it is very simple.The people pakistan,india and bangaldesh are the same.They have to understand this fundamental fact.We can always go back to history and see where our ancestors came from,a fair skinned guy ll say mine came from scandinavia and the dark skinned one ll say mine came from africa.

we can exist as independent countries and still realise this basic fact.i have met many many pakistanis when i was abroad and i cannot see the difference of any sort between them and the indian people of north india.

but whats the point?there are many other things that matter.

for good and the bad apart from the elite nobility,none of the people have any kind of pure blood.If we take the extremes of the country,we r bound to get extreme samples.

You can take ur own cricket team,look at how imran khan and javed miandad look.I am sure u can see the difference.Many hindus in india ll be more fairer and sharp nosed than javed and many pathans and frontierwale from india have dark skin and blunt noses.

so where are all those invasion and race theories?they fail bigtime.ultimately it is the culture that unites the people.it is the weather,the food,the lifestyle that ultimately makes one man help other to survive.how does it matter how one seeks his inner strength when that inner strength is not of any use to his society.

this partition was very bloody but what pisses me off the most is that it was unnecessary.

 

[indiaworldpower]

India is trying to Crush Kashmiri movement by force ​

TopNews
Written by KMS
Monday, 11 October 2010 13:13

Srinagar, October 11, 2010: APHC chairman, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, has said that India is trying to crush the Kashmiris’ struggle through use of brute force ahead of the US President, Barrack Obama’s visit to India.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani, in a statement issued in Srinagar, termed the attempt by the occupation authorities to quell the ongoing "Quite Kashmir Movement" forcefully as an effort to hoodwink the international community about the situation in the occupied territory.

He asked the people of Kashmir to keep united among their ranks to foil nefarious designs of the authorities to harm the movement. “Peace and stability in South Asia cannot prevail till the resolution of Kashmir dispute,” he added.

Appealing the people to make protest programme, announced by him as a part of "Quit Kashmir Movement", a success, Syed Ali Shah Geelani said that Kashmiris would continue their struggle for right of Self-Determination till its logical end. He said that if the puppet Chief Minister, Umar Abdullah, was sincere to his words then he should resign and join the pro-freedom camp.


Felicitating the Hajj aspirants, Syed Ali Shah Geelani said that they should say special prayers for success of the liberation movement in Occupied State of Jammu and Kashmir (OSJK).

“Sacrifices of the Kashmiri people have centre-staged the Kashmir dispute. International community understands that Kashmiris’ movement is an indigenous freedom struggle against Indian occupation,” he maintained.

The APHC leader, Mirwaiz Umar Farooq has expressed serious concern over the miserable plight of the illegally detained Kashmiris in various jails. In a statement issued in Srinagar he said, “The detainees are being treated inhumanely. They have been even denied medical care and their relatives are not allowed to meet them regularly.” He maintained that Kashmiris’ liberation struggle had been recognized at the international level and there was no justification in mistreating the pro-freedom leadership and Kashmiris in the jails. He appealed to the international human rights organizations to take cognizance of the matter.

Mirwaiz strongly denounced the restrictions imposed by the occupation authorities on Sunday to thwart an indoor session to mark the Prisoners’ Day. “I want to maintain that we had not to stage protests or take out procession but only organize a session to pay tributes to the prisoners. Putting curbs on our symbolic and peaceful programs clearly shows authorities’ frustration,” he added.

Umar Farooq pointed out that after the Lal Chowk march on Eid-ul-Fitr, the puppet administration had left no stone unturned to quell peaceful protests in the territory. He deplored that the present regime was helpless and had now confined to only curfews, restrictions, crackdowns and putting leaders under house arrest.


Senior Hurriyet leader and the Vice Chairman of Jammu and Kashmir Muslim League, Masarrat Aalam Butt, has said that the people of Kashmir will continue their just liberation struggle till its logical conclusion. Masarrat Aalam Butt in a statement issued in Srinagar appealed the people to take part in Hyderpora March in large numbers on Tuesday to free Syed Ali Shah Geelani, who is under illegal house arrest since Eid.

He warned the occupation authorities of massive agitation if they did not stop their oppressive tactics in the territory. Masarrat Aalam Butt said that the use of force could not deter Kashmiris’ resolve to get freedom from Indian bondage.

Calling India an uncivilized nation that had been enslaving Kashmiris for the past 63 years, he said that the occupation authorities were trying to suppress the liberation struggle through use of brute force.

The authorities have booked four persons under the black law, Public Safety Act (PSA) in Shopian district for participating in recent anti-India demonstrations. Four persons had been booked under Indian laws in the district. Those who have been booked under the Indian black laws include Mufti Wajib, Farooq Ahmed, Ayaz Ahmed and Shiraz. They have been lodged in Kathua jail.

A nine-month-old baby was critically injured after Indian troops beat him up in south Kashmir’s Islamabad town. Eyewitnesses told mediamen that Indian forces without any provocation barged into the house of Manzoor Ahmad Bhat, proprietor Manzoor Fabrics, in Khanabal and beat up all the inmates including women and children. They said that a nine-month-old baby, Asrar Manzoor, was critically injured as he was also hit with batons in his head while he was in his mother’s lap. Asrar was shifted to the district hospital, Islamabad.


The witnesses stated that Asrar’s seven-year-old brother, Arsalan Manzoor, also sustained grievous injuries after he was beaten ruthlessly by the troops.

People took to the streets in many areas of the town in protest against the incident. Indian police and troops used brute force to disperse the protesters injuring several persons.

Anti-India demonstrations were staged in Bemina, Chattabal, Batamaloo, Saida Kadal, Rainawari, Rajouri Kadal, Gojwara, Nund Reshi Colony, Nowpora, Khanyar, Pampore, Shopian, Pulwama, Kulgam, Sopore, Handwara and Baramulla areas. The occupation forces resorted to heavy baton charge and excessive teargas shelling to break up the demonstrations at many places. A civilian, Waseem Akbar Lone, resident of Chankhan in Sopore, was critically injured in the police action. He was shifted to sub-district hospital Sopore where from doctors referred him to Soura hospital in Srinagar. A youth was hit on his head by a teargas shell fired by the police in Baramulla. He was rushed to SHMS hospital where his condition was stated to be critical.

In Srinagar, Indian forces entered into many residential areas, damaged several vehicles, smashed windowpanes of residential houses and ransacked household goods.

India is trying to Crush Kashmiri movement by force

There is nothing wrong in using force against voilent protests no matter who they are. They can be Indians in Kashmiri or others Indians at any other part of the country.