Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Awesome]

What did Musharraf say about mlitant groups in Kashmir | Pakistan Patriot

The Bharati press and the BBC has misquoted the Der Spiegel interview with Pervez Musharraf.

When asked about mlitant groups in Kashmir, Mr. Musharraf responded “they were formed”. Mr. Musharraf did not say that the government formed them. He said that the government “turned a blind eye” on them. The exact quote is as follows:

“They were indeed formed. The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir”.

He also said “The West blames Pakistan for everything. Nobody asks the Indian prime minister, why did you arm your country with a nuclear weapon? Why are you killing innocent civilians in Kashmir? Nobody was bothered that Pakistan got split in 1971 because of India’s military involvement. The United States and Germany gave statements, but they didn’t mean anything,”

 

[roach]

He said nothing new, nothing revelatory.

He just said what needed to be said to make the world take notice of his new political party.

I like Musharraf, I think we can work with this man. A known devil is better than an unknown angel. Good luck to him in his journey back to Pakistan politics.

 

[saurabh]

SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf: 'Pakistan is Always Seen as the Rogue' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

SPIEGEL: Why did you form militant underground groups to fight India in Kashmir?

Musharraf: They were indeed formed. The government turned a blind eye because they wanted India to discuss Kashmir.

SPIEGEL: It was the Pakistani security forces that trained them.

Musharraf: The West was ignoring the resolution of the Kashmir issue, which is the core issue of Pakistan. We expected the West -- especially the United States and important countries like Germany -- to resolve the Kashmir issue. Has Germany done that?

SPIEGEL: Does that give Pakistan the right to train underground fighters?

Musharraf: Yes, it is the right of any country to promote its own interests when India is not prepared to discuss Kashmir at the United Nations and is not prepared to resolve the dispute in a peaceful manner.

He did not answered first two questions. If he was not guilty as charged, he should have said so, otherwise, it would be obviously taken that he (Pakistan) is guilty. When it was asked "why did you do so", right answer would have been, "we didn't do so". But he didn't deny the charges.

Third question, he accepts Pakistan has right to train underground fighters, and doesn't deny that they didn't. What do you make out of it?

 

[third eye]

What did Musharraf say about mlitant groups in Kashmir | Pakistan Patriot

Either way is an admission of the complicity of GOP and its intention to allow / use terrorism as an instrument of state policy - something it denied all along and more so back in 99.

Here is a link to Der Spigel and the actual interview.

SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf: 'Pakistan is Always Seen as the Rogue' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

 

[RobbieS]

Asim, what is your argument here? That Pakistan/Mushy never formed those groups? From what I have seen in your posts, you count that as perfectly rational and legal activity. Why the attempt to disassociate Pakistan from the creation of these groups now?

 

[Awesome]

Either way is an admission of the complicity of GOP and its intention to allow / use terrorism as an instrument of state policy - something it denied all along and more so back in 99.

Here is a link to Der Spigel and the actual interview.

SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf: 'Pakistan is Always Seen as the Rogue' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Hmmm 90s era strategy of Pakistan was wrong, it allowed these groups thinking they would only harm India. The era is significant as well, since when Musharraf came in February 2001, he put an end to Pakistan's complicity with these groups at an overt level.

Since Kargil it was evident that trained PA regulars are actively involved rather than militants.

 

[Awesome]

Asim, what is your argument here? That Pakistan/Mushy never formed those groups? From what I have seen in your posts, you count that as perfectly rational and legal activity. Why the attempt to disassociate Pakistan from the creation of these groups now?

Musharraf never formed these groups, they were allowed to be formed by many people ready to do so in Pakistan. The idea is simple and an honest one, India can opt to give the Kashmiris the democratic right to vote in a plebiscite, or else the gun would have to be picked up to kill Indian soldiers.

Pakistan's efforts in this regard should be commended. What could be more beautiful than fighting for democracy and freedom? Of course the use of militant groups has performance issues and perhaps they don't kill enough Indian soldiers or they miss the target and have incurred collateral losses.

As Musharraf said it is our right to do so. Only thing is to pick the best method of doing it.

 

[KS]

Long due - hope the Court gifts her a paid vacation to Tihar.

 

[PAKFA]

These are the side effect of democracy . person like her and barkha dutt for getting publicity they can go for any extent against country interest . Hope to see some action on these Traitors.

 

[praveen]

Musharraf never formed these groups, they were allowed to be formed by many people ready to do so in Pakistan. The idea is simple and an honest one, India can opt to give the Kashmiris the democratic right to vote in a plebiscite, or else the gun would have to be picked up to kill Indian soldiers.

Pakistan's efforts in this regard should be commended. What could be more beautiful than fighting for democracy and freedom? Of course the use of militant groups has performance issues and perhaps they don't kill enough Indian soldiers or they miss the target and have incurred collateral losses.

As Musharraf said it is our right to do so. Only thing is to pick the best method of doing it.

so you recommend 26\11 like scenarios to fight for democracy and freedom.Kashmiris have ceased to become insurgents since the break up of JKLF.

Well as long as young send terrorists aka freedom fighters the job of the indian army to fix appointment with God

 

[RobbieS]

Musharraf never formed these groups, they were allowed to be formed by many people ready to do so in Pakistan. The idea is simple and an honest one, India can opt to give the Kashmiris the democratic right to vote in a plebiscite, or else the gun would have to be picked up to kill Indian soldiers.

Pakistan's efforts in this regard should be commended. What could be more beautiful than fighting for democracy and freedom? Of course the use of militant groups has performance issues and perhaps they don't kill enough Indian soldiers or they miss the target and have incurred collateral losses.

As Musharraf said it is our right to do so. Only thing is to pick the best method of doing it.

Asim, you have probably seen this argument before, but the problem with that approach is that those groups are never in full control of their backers. The pretense of an indigenous armed struggle necessitates a sort of loose control over these groups. And as we have seen these groups have indulged in wanton acts of terror beyond Kashmir as well. And when that happens, you cant blame India for choosing a suitable method retribution. Balochistan may be only one of those methods.

And I think one has to evaluate the end benefit for Pakistan. Where has this policy of a proxy war led Pakistan? The very same intentions that led Pakistan to train and fund Kashmiri militants also led Pakistan to turn a blind eye or even harbor Taliban factions. What has Pakistan got out of it? Has India's hold on Kashmir weakened? Has India shown any flexibility in its approach? And is Pakistan seen as true supporter of oppressed people or as a terrorist haven?

And even the cause of a plebiscite is a flawed and a sham one. Pakistan wants Kashmir for itself.

 

[KS]

Musharraf never formed these groups, they were allowed to be formed by many people ready to do so in Pakistan. The idea is simple and an honest one, India can opt to give the Kashmiris the democratic right to vote in a plebiscite, or else the gun would have to be picked up to kill Indian soldiers.


As Musharraf said it is our right to do so. Only thing is to pick the best method of doing it.

No I dont get this simple and honest idea.

Who exactly authorised Pakistan to pick up the gun or rather facilitate in picking up the gun if India didn do as per "Pakistan's wishes".?

Pakistan is as complicit as India in this issue ans going by your simple and honest idea isnt India correct in starting cross border terrorism in your Kashmir.?

 

[devgupt]

Musharraf never formed these groups, they were allowed to be formed by many people ready to do so in Pakistan.
Pakistan's efforts in this regard should be commended.

As Musharraf said it is our right to do so. Only thing is to pick the best method of doing it.

Heard of Frankestein?

 

[su-47]

Musharraf never formed these groups, they were allowed to be formed by many people ready to do so in Pakistan. The idea is simple and an honest one, India can opt to give the Kashmiris the democratic right to vote in a plebiscite, or else the gun would have to be picked up to kill Indian soldiers.

When a state deliberately allows, and even encourages, non-state actors to use the state as a launch platform to attack another country, then it is equivalent to state-sponsored terrorism. So the argument that Musharraf didn't actually form the groups doesn't have any significance. Its still state-sponsored terrorism against another sovereign nation.

Pakistan's efforts in this regard should be commended. What could be more beautiful than fighting for democracy and freedom?

Yes, and by that same logic, India should support BLA, and Pakistan should stop complaining about our support for Mukthi Bahini.

Of course the use of militant groups has performance issues and perhaps they don't kill enough Indian soldiers or they miss the target and have incurred collateral losses.

Oh yes, their performance issue is the problem. Doesnt matter if they are Paksitani citizens who are being sent to die, instead of being taught to live. Doesn't matter if the Jihadis butcher a whole load of Kashmiris in the process. Just as long as their performance of killing Indians is acceptable isn't it?

BTW doesn't this count as supporting terrorism? And i thought this forum didnt allow for supporting terrorism?

As Musharraf said it is our right to do so. Only thing is to pick the best method of doing it.

Your 'best method' has crippled your economy and almost made you a pariah state. Maybe it is time for a strategic review on policies.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

For the indians who are questioning...

Friends (enemies whatever you like)... The problem that you have here on this forum is that you are talking to a certain section of Pakistani society which for a lot of issues does not represent the common man on the street in Pakistan... The Jihadi organizations that sprang up against India has been something that is inevitable in a society that has nothing much to offer their citizens... Poor people with no decent jobs with the media bombarding them with Indian atrocities in Kashmir on a daily basis... of course you will have people wanting to fight against India... The Pakistani elite decided to use that to keep these people busy... They used these groups and helped them initially... This helps the Army as well because then the Army does not have to do what it is supposed to do i.e fight wars/liberate occupied land etc and instead they can just live a peaceful life... and rule the country in the form of American backed puppets like Musharaf...

The questions you are asking on this forum can never be answered by these people... The Jihadi organizations served an important purpose which was to channel the anger that ordinary man on the street faces against these corrupt leaders be it both civilian or military and use that anger against our arch rival India... Musharaf perhaps now realizes that we need to keep these groups as he has nothing better to offer them than a quick path to paradise...