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Kashmir | News & Discussions.

So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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BTW, in 47 Pakistan sent forces after Indian troops intervened to squash a Civil Uprising.

Out of curiosity...where did you learn that...because that is false.

In October 1947, Pashtun tribesmen from Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province invaded Kashmir.

There had been persistent reports of communal violence against Muslims in the state and, supported by the Pakistani Government, they were eager to precipitate its accession to Pakistan.

Mountbatten favoured Kashmir's temporary accession to India
Troubled by the increasing deterioration in law and order and by earlier raids, culminating in the invasion of the tribesmen, the ruler, Maharaja Hari Singh, requested armed assistance from India.

Please dont lie to support your"moral high ground". Whatever has been taught in your twisted curriculum is a lie.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1762146.stm
 
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Appreciate the positive words bro, don't worry, there are many like me, just hope more made a splash on this forum. Too many patriotic (or idiotic, whichever way you look at it!) people get clouded in their sentiments.

If you approach an angle as take take take, refusing to look at the situation from the opposing perspective, then how can one expect progress? My experience tells me that those Pakistani's that are living abroad, are more passionate about this issue than the common man back in Pakistan!

Yet you speak to these people like I do in the UK, and they know nothing about the dynamics of Kashmir, the different stakeholders, the views from India's perspective, who Syed Salahuddin is, who Geelani is, what article 370 is, what autonomy means, the history, our failings etc etc. It's constant 'Kashmir banega Pakistan'.

If you're going to be blinded by your patriotism, and blind hatred of India, then you need to be educated about this complex matter we have on our hands - and start to accept reality.

Reality is that we can find a solution, place our hatred behind us and prosper not in isolation, but together. Unfortunately, Pakistani's do allow their emotions to get the better of them, and that leads to poor decision making.

We care more about the Palestinians for example than the Arabs themselves. Why? It seems we needs a bogeyman to blame and to act as an outlet for our own frustrations, whether it's India or Israel. It never ceases to amaze me.

As patriotic as I am, and I love my country to bits, there is no reason why we as neighbours (whether it is in the sub-continent, or here in the UK) can't get along. If Bopanna and Qureshi are setting the benchmark, then we need to follow in that direction. Believe me, it can be done.

As much as I have seen, I have mostly found the Non-resident Pakistanis being more sensible and balanced in their approach. Is it the education, is it the openness of their new society, or is it their own vision that makes them look apart, in a better way, than their countrymen?

Anyways, just hope more of your compatriots develop sanity and stop seeing India as their enemy. I have tried to convince some of them otherwise. But then they bring in Junagadh, Hyderbad and Kashmir, etc, blind themselves with emotional chauvinism and then just stop their mind from envisioning the future and become captives of their past. They feel to see the enormity of betterment that can be brought about in the region by cooperation and friendliness between the two nations.

I have noticed that the case of Muslim brotherhood is also something that drives them to such extremes. No harm with such feelings, but why not extend this concept to humanity brotherhood? But, most of the time, "Muslim brotherhood" also becomes selective; just an emotional tool to bash whom they want to bash.

Let's just hope, more and more people like you make effort and try to make their countrymen see the better vision of life, and do not fall trap to emotional entanglements brought about by various self-serving activities of individuals or groups.

Kudos to your liberal thinking and ripe sensibility! :tup:
 
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In Kashmir, it is recklessness at its worst (Comment)

It is very easy -- indeed it has become fashionable -- to denounce security forces for the unending violence in Kashmir Valley. Sadly, it is not the full story.

Of course, the security forces have done what they should not. They have fired and killed people taking part in demonstrations. I doubt if they would have acted similarly had the protests taken place in Mumbai.

But that is only one side of the story. As Kashmiris express anguish over their fate, it is equally important to know the other side.

Take Eid day, for example. That was one day when there was no provocation by the security forces; yet unprecedented violence took place. There is no doubt in the minds of many ordinary Kashmiris that the mayhem of that holy day was planned by those who style themselves as Kashmiri leaders.

Knowing that police may not open fire because of widespread criticism, more than 400 youths riding motorcycles gathered at the historic Lal Chowk in Srinagar to hoist green flags atop the clock tower. Apart from other things, they destroyed a small park there. In no time, it was proved how conveniently separatists can convert a religious gathering into a frenzied mob.

The day provided an opportunity to Miwaiz Omar Farooq, the so-called moderate, to prove that he stands second to none in popularity. For three months, hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani has been calling the shots.

Despite all the arson that day, security forces fired mainly in the air. But the 'peaceful protestors' attacked police and paramilitary camps!

On their part, the police and even the Central Reserve Police Force, which does not enjoy the kind of awe the Border Security Force did, maintained restraint to avoid civilian killings.

No one talks about the ordinary Kashmiris' crippled lives, about closed schools and colleges, huge business losses, and paralysed banks and public transport.

In a desperate bid to force India to accept Kashmir as an international dispute, Geelani and his men have been issuing 'protest calendars' for the last three months. Congress and National Conference leaders have been left issuing media statements. None of their leaders has mustered the courage to mix with those who voted them to power in 2008.

Pursuing their single point agenda to somehow dislodge Omar Abdullah, the People's Democratic Party (PDP) is acting like the mouthpiece of the separatists. They have no guts to challenge the separatists who are playing havoc with their children's education, the valley's economy and the plight of the thousands of daily wage earners.

According to a recent survey, businessmen in the valley have suffered losses of around Rs.21,000 crore ($4.5 billion) in the last three months. Interestingly, businessmen in Jammu say they have also suffered losses of Rs.7,100 crore ($1.5 billion) because of snapped trade links with Srinagar.

Police stations, paramilitary camps, public property and homes of mainstream political activists have been torched.

The valley is passing through anarchy where young boys aged hardly more than 12 years stop vehicles and check the identity cards of the occupants and to spot out policemen.

A head constable was recently dragged out of his vehicle in the Ompora area of Srinagar and beaten mercilessly. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has come under pressure to repeal the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, release separatists and stone-pelters, compensate those injured and killed in the violence, and withdraw security forces from urban areas.

But it can be safely stated that none of these measures, however welcome they may be, will usher in peace in the valley.

Because that is not the agenda of the separatists. The peace they ask for is a peace that will be blessed by Pakistan.

For Kashmiri Muslim Sufis like us, that is unacceptable. As a government officer here said: 'Give them your hand, and they will demand your head.'

(The author is a businessman from Srinagar. He does not want his name to be revealed for fear of reprisal.)
 
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Gives an unbiased account of the situation currently in the valley. :tup:

And clearly, he means to imply that the separatists are the root of the troubles in that region.
 
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Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has come under pressure to repeal the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, release separatists and stone-pelters, compensate those injured and killed in the violence, and withdraw security forces from urban areas.


But it can be safely stated that none of these measures, however welcome they may be, will usher in peace in the valley.
well lets try that before we come to conclusion shall we
 
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^^^^^ i agree

if the govt gives in, there will be still more demands. the AFSPA and the CRPF are in place because of a reason. the reason is the bad security situation in J&K. once the security situation improves the AFSPA can be repealed. but the way things are going, i dont think the protesters are going to let that happen. ironic isnt it.
 
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The chaos in kashmir is due to Rahul Gandhi because he is foolish to think that youth leadership is the only solution that too the youth from the family of rulers.

Because of his friendship he has given the free run to Omar Abdullah and as the national conference govt. is in a partnership with congress, congress should also get a chance to field a CM for 3 years rotation as the last time when PDP ruled as CM Mufti and congress have gulaam nabi azad for 3 years.

Omar is lacking in the leadership qualities, vision and maturity.

Also, he and his admin are ridiculing security forces and allowing hardliners who were in the sidelines to take center stage.

As the above news talk about Eid incident at lal chowk, mirwaiz omer farooq have provoked crowd gathered for Eid namaz to protest at Lal chowck.

And CM Omar Abdullah have withdrawn whole forces police and CRPF and have given free run to 5,000 crowd for arson and riot.
 
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They were testing Indian resilience on that particular day,Kashmiris have access to some rights to which even the rest dont have,they were specific reservation for Kashmiris in all educational Institutions across India,in all states,job reservation,and that to they r getting since our independence,extract the maximum benefit from India tax payers money and then cry about their hatred for India
 
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And the point I am making is that post 1987, fresh from success in Afghanistan, Pakistan stated promoting insurgency in J&K. From that time down, the things have settled down quite a bit as is visible from the data posted.

On illegitimate occupation, its an oft repeated but zero value chant. Looks good in rallies organized by likes of Hafiz Saeed and ignorant protesters in Kashmir valley, but has no significance on the ground.

As I said it isn't going to bring any change. The IOK is burning and it will till it gets freedom from the foreigners. As far as militancy is concerned it can rise against easily with all the ingredients for it are present in IOK. As far as about illegitimate occupation Kashmir doesn't belong to India in the first place, so it is obvious it is an illegitimate occupation. An occupation which is bound to end even at any cost.

:)
 
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SRINAGAR, India, Sept 18, 2010 (AFP) - Indian-administered Kashmir's top separatist said Saturday he has called off planned sit-in protests outside police and army camps fearing that some "miscreants" might sabotage the plan.

Syed Ali Geelani had called for locals to assemble peacefully in front of security force camps next Tuesday and shout slogans such as: "Go India, Go Back!"

But he cancelled the demonstrations "to prevent miscreants from sabotaging the peaceful programme," he said in a statement.

He said the decision was taken in view of "conspiracies being hatched by miscreants to get the people killed and malign the overall movement."

"People should now hold protests in their respective district headquarters," Geelani said.

The decision came after Indian police shot dead three more protesters in Kashmir on Saturday as crowds defied curfews to pelt security forces with stones in the latest unrest in the Himalayan region.

A total of 102 people have died since anti-India protests erupted in June, according to an AFP tally, with 17 killed on Monday in the worst civilian violence in the Muslim-majority region since an armed revolt began two decades ago.

The sit-ins would have been the first of their kind in the wave of rolling demonstrations sweeping the region and would have posed a new challenge to security forces as they struggle to restore order.

Despite being placed under house arrest by Indian authorities, Geelani, 81, has emerged as the chief organiser of the protests.

The nearly daily popular protests are the biggest since the armed revolt against Indian rule erupted in Kashmir in 1989 and are testing India's sovereignty over the region.
 
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Indians are mostly bewildered by the fervour of Kashmiri separatists
Vir Sanghvi

I don’t know about you but I feel a deep weariness and a mounting frustration when I see the position of Kashmiri separatists described again and again in the media and in the foreign press in particular.

By now, most Indians know the separatist position by heart: the accession of Kashmir in 1947 was dubious; for many years Kashmiri elections were rigged; Kashmir is a Muslim majority state in Hindu India; the army subjects the Valley to a reign of terror; and that normal life in Kashmir is impossible because of the constant military presence.

Integral to this position is a caricature of how Indians feel about Kashmir. We are apparently, a Hindu-majority state that is determined to hang on by force to Kashmir. Even though the Kashmiris have democratic aspirations, we deny them the right to act on those aspirations and have turned Kashmir into an occupied territory, its hapless citizens kept in check by frequent use of military brutality.

Over the last few years, this frequently articulated position has begun to annoy me not just because it is untrue but because it describes an India that I do not recognise and ascribes views to Indians that I know we do not hold.

In my experience, the attitude of Indians towards Kashmir and the Kashmiri people is not an imperialistic, colonialist and militaristic arrogance. Nor is it guided by Hindu chauvinism or a hatred of Muslims.

In fact, the overwhelming emotion when it comes to our understanding of Kashmir is one of pure bemusement.

The vast majority of Indians are bewildered by the Kashmir problem and the demands of Kashmiri militants. Far from being arrogant, we are actually astonished. Why do the Kashmiris hate us so much? What harm have we ever done them? And what is it that they want from us?

There is one part of the separatist position that we understand. We recognise that it must be hell to live with a constant military presence in a state where citizens are subject to random police checks and where curfew is a regular occurrence. Though few of us say this openly very often, most of us are intensely embarrassed by the stories of human rights abuses and the allegations about the use of excessive force by soldiers.

Some of these allegations may be fabricated. But equally, some of them must be true. And for every human rights abuse, every Indian must hang his head in shame. This is not the Indian way. And this is not what our country is about.

But equally, most of us would argue that the military presence is a response to a violent insurrection against the Indian state. Till 1989, Kashmir did not have such a strong military presence. The army went in only after the violence increased, after key leaders were assassinated, after kidnappings became a regular occurrence, after jihadis thronged to Kashmir from across the border and after arson became an acceptable form of political protest.

Violence begets violence. If you declare war on the Indian state, the state is not going to roll over and let you tickle its stomach. It is obliged to fight back and to assert both its authority and the rule of law.

Most Indians would love to see the army withdrawn from Kashmir. Indian soldiers have no particular desire to lay their lives on the line and India has many other uses for the hundreds of crores we spend on police in Kashmir. But each time we talk of reducing the army presence or of amending AFSPA, the violence actually seems to increase. There is no evidence that a reduction in the military presence will be greeted by a similar reduction in the level of militant violence.
Besides, even if the army were withdrawn and there was no state violence in Kashmir, would the separatists change their stance? Would they say that they now accept Indian sovereignty?

I don’t think so. The army presence is unfortunate. But it is not the core issue.

From our perspective, the secessionist sentiment in Kashmir is bewildering because (except for the army presence) the average Kashmiri has the same deal as every other Indian except perhaps that the Indian state spends more money on him. Per capita expenditure on each Kashmiri is vastly greater than Delhi’s per capita expenditure on, say, the average Bihari.

Further, we argue, Kashmiris have the same democratic rights as other Indians. Even if you accept that elections were rigged in the past, that has not been true for several years. The PDP government was legitimately elected and so is the current National Conference regime. Moreover, Kashmiris have many rights (through Article 370) that Indians who reside in other parts of the country do not have.

We accept that because of the circumstances of Kashmir’s accession, there may have been separatist sentiment in the years following 1947. Certainly, we have faced secessionist movements in many parts of India – Tamil Nadu, Nagaland, Punjab, etc. – but in every case we have managed to fulfil the aspirations of the people and quell the separatist sentiment. But what is it about Kashmir that despite our best efforts, this generation of Kashmiris, born many years after 1947, continues to demand secession?

More mystifying for us is that we do not know what the Kashmiris want. There is no doubt that many of their leaders take money from Pakistan and certainly, there are many pro-Pakistani Kashmiris. But who in his right mind would want union with today’s troubled Pakistan? Who wouldn’t prefer India’s success story to the Pakistani saga of national collapse?

Nor does Pakistan have any record of treating its non-Punjabi minorities well. Bangladesh seceded after the Pakistani army launched a genocide. The Baluchs were massacred by the same army. And *** is hardly a shining advertisement for the virtues of Pakistani citizenship.

Some Kashmiris say they want independence from both India and Pakistan. But it is staggeringly obvious that an independent state of Kashmir, with no industry to speak of, would last for 15 minutes without subsidies from India or Pakistan. Worse still, such a state would probably be run according to strict Shariat law, denying rights to women and offering safe haven to the world’s jehadis. You would have to be very naive to believe that the US or any great power would support the creation of such a state.

So, why then are Kashmiris destroying their future in a mad and pointless insurrection?

I don’t think most Indians know the answer but we suspect that it might have to do with religion.

In today’s secular India, religion is no longer a crucial determinant of political behaviour. We find the notion of a state founded only on religious identity old-fashioned and bizarre.

But clearly, religion matters more to the separatists than anything else. The state has three parts, all of which get the same deal from the Centre. But it is only in the Valley, which is nearly all Muslim (after the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmiri Pandits) that secession finds many takers. This single-minded pursuit of an Islamic future sets Kashmiri separatists apart from Indian Muslims who have accepted a secular polity and feel no particular kinship with their Kashmiri brethren’s political demands.

But because Kashmiri secessionism flows from an Islamist ideology, it poses special problems for educated Indians. I suspect that many of us are now so fed up that we would be happy to be rid of the Kashmiri separatists and their problems but for our fears for the future of Indian secularism. At some level, we wonder if this would not be a second Partition and we are afraid of what Kashmir’s secession would mean for India’s thriving Muslim minority.

Ironically, it is this sentiment based on nothing more than a desire to protect Indian secularism that allows the separatists to tell the world that India is full of chauvinist Hindus who send their armies to attack Kashmiri Muslims and hang on to a country that is not theirs.

It is an old lie. It is a variation of the same untruth that the Muslim League spread in the run-up to Partition. Indian secularism survived that lie. And I have no doubt that however much the Kashmiri separatists may caricature our position now, both India and its secularism will eventually triumph again.
 
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Its really sad to see armed forces being made scape goats for violence when these eye openers appear.
 
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Indians are very naive their media has kept them in dark from all those past years.
India has more army personals presence in Kashmir than collective Pak army.
Which is busy fighting terrorism, floods and about 7000km- long hostile borders.
 
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