Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

PAKISTANIS ARE GIVING TOO MUCH FREEDOM OF SPEECH TO INDIANS HERE ON THIS FORUM

Thats the reason for this forum being popular among Indians than their own forums.In fact popular all over globe.

. ACT IN YOUR INTERESTS, BAN ALL INDIANS EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE SENSITIVE TO THE CONCERNS OF KASHMIRIS.

I can only LOL on this,and yeah! i'm being insensitive.

BOYCOTT BOLLYWOOD COMPLETELY, IT IS AGAINST YOUR RELIGION, YOUR COUNTRY, YOUR MORAL VALUES, AND YOUR INTERESTS

You"ll fit in here perfectly.

... YOU ARE PLAYING WITH OUR AND YOUR MARTYRS BLOOD
RESTRICT FOREIGN FUNDING TO YOUR MEDIA CHANNELS... THEY HAVE BEEN CORRUPTED TO THE CORE IN THE NAME OF "PRESS FREEDOM"
TAKE ACTIVE STEP WITH RESPECT TO KASHMIR... ORGANIZE PUBLIC SYMPATHY FOR KASHMIRIS IN YOUR MOSQUES, CHURCHES, TEMPLES, ETC
MAKE PAKISTAN STRONGER, ELECT YOUR GOVERNMENT WISELY,

Pakistan needs citizens like you.

To my Indian comrades on this thread WE HAVE NOTHING AGAINST INDIA, BUT AGAINST INDIAN OCCUPATION OF KASHMIR, please understand the human angle of the problem, we may be pro pakistanis, or pro russians, or pro chinese, or whatever, what do you care... leave us, and let us rot, we will take care of ourselves

We too have no problem if you are pro-what so ever.

As long as you support/aid/carry out attacks on Indian citizens(Hindu pandits) in your state,you will face consequences.

PS:mods need an IP check here
thanks in advance.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And that is enough for one of the main parties to the dispute - India.

There will not be a change or shift in territory brother, as much as one side can see the advantages, this will not happen.

Territorially India still ends up with the more advantageous position, historically, since Pakistan will likely give up its claim to Junagadh, and India ends up with Hyderabad, which would have possibly gone to Pakistan had India not invaded and annexed it.

Technically India is still making out like a bandit in terms of the territories it has annexed through force.

 

[justanobserver]

You"ll fit in here perfectly.



Pakistan needs citizens like you.

Considering his avatar is is of Gen. Zia Ul Haq he'll fit in just wonderfully.

PS:mods need an IP check here
thanks in advance.

Naah he's probabaly from Kashmir, one of the radical Islamists

BOYCOTT BOLLYWOOD COMPLETELY, IT IS AGAINST YOUR RELIGION, YOUR COUNTRY, YOUR MORAL VALUES,

 

[Gentle Typhoon]

This forum is degrading at very rapid pace, before I joined this forum I was active reader and there used to be good debates, no trolling.

Now this forum is all about EGO. So many senior members left forum, Only Sparklingway's and T-Faz are ray of hope.

Ban serves no purpose!

I do agree there is room for use of criticizing each other as a legitimate part of debate, but with proper format, civil manner, source link.

Changing thread title doesnt change reallity. Member who spend 4-5 hour daily on PDF, get emotionally attached. We are not on govt pay for spending time on this forum. Its natural inquisitive behavior.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is what is called misinterpretation of facts. Let me post that survey for you which I actually posted in another thread:


A few important points to note,

1. Kashmiris' are themselves divided about what they want.
2. 68% in the valley say that " India should give kashmir control over everything except defence, foreign affairs and communication. This clearly means that those 68% can compromise with India retaining overall control. Yet again, 66% in the valley say "Complete freedom for entire J&K as a seperate country".

Two thing becomes very clear,

1. Valley and only valley wants independence but even they could be satisfied with things like greater autonomy with India giving up control for everything except defence, foreign affairs and communication. GoI is game for that.
2. Nobody wants to join Pakistan

Regards

Peace

You are reading too much into the response to that one question. The adage of 'lies, damn lies and statistics' comes to mind.

The Kashmiris are currently occupied by India, within that reality, if someone proposes better living conditions and self-rule for them, of course they will agree to it. But the question does not establish whether living under those conditions is also an acceptable option to 'Azadi' or 'plebiscite', which is the point you are trying to make from that poll.

 

[NWO]

A Pak-Indo thread. This is now officially a trolling thread.

 

[NWO]

recently 18 Kashmiris killed,maybe this is the answer for hosting pakistani flag,
and now whole Kashmir on curfew..

Wait a minute, I thought the protesting was only occurring in one part of Kashmir. Wouldn't the rest of Kashmir be free to do whatever they want?

 

[Hulk]

You are reading too much into the response to that one question. The adage of 'lies, damn lies and statistics' comes to mind.

The Kashmiris are currently occupied by India, within that reality, if someone proposes better living conditions and self-rule for them, of course they will agree to it. But the question does not establish whether living under those conditions is also an acceptable option to 'Azadi' or 'plebiscite', which is the point you are trying to make from that poll.

If that is the case even Azad Kashmir is occupied with Pakistan. Not having riots of protest does not change the fact that they were never asked of their opinion on staying with Pakistan. Calling it Azad is biggest farce as it by no means Azad.

 

[indiaworldpower]

PAKISTANIS ARE GIVING TOO MUCH FREEDOM OF SPEECH TO INDIANS HERE ON THIS FORUM. ACT IN YOUR INTERESTS, BAN ALL INDIANS EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE SENSITIVE TO THE CONCERNS OF KASHMIRIS.
BOYCOTT BOLLYWOOD COMPLETELY, IT IS AGAINST YOUR RELIGION, YOUR COUNTRY, YOUR MORAL VALUES, AND YOUR INTERESTS... YOU ARE PLAYING WITH OUR AND YOUR MARTYRS BLOOD
RESTRICT FOREIGN FUNDING TO YOUR MEDIA CHANNELS... THEY HAVE BEEN CORRUPTED TO THE CORE IN THE NAME OF "PRESS FREEDOM"
TAKE ACTIVE STEP WITH RESPECT TO KASHMIR... ORGANIZE PUBLIC SYMPATHY FOR KASHMIRIS IN YOUR MOSQUES, CHURCHES, TEMPLES, ETC
MAKE PAKISTAN STRONGER, ELECT YOUR GOVERNMENT WISELY,

DO YOU ALL PAKISTANI BROTHERS AGREE ON THIS OR NOT.??
To my Indian comrades on this thread WE HAVE NOTHING AGAINST INDIA, BUT AGAINST INDIAN OCCUPATION OF KASHMIR, please understand the human angle of the problem, we may be pro pakistanis, or pro russians, or pro chinese, or whatever, what do you care... leave us, and let us rot, we will take care of ourselves

We don't care whether you rot or not. You can get Kashmiris but not Kashmir.

 

[NWO]

Say, does anyone have info on the demographic of the protesters? Indian members claim they are just young and out of work, and that's why they're protesting. But the Pakistani members claim that they educated and the young age indicates how the new generation is also rising against Indian rule.

 

[Hulk]

While reading through post here, one thought came to my mind. The demand of plebiscite can only be made if decent number of people asks for it. IMO that number should be minimum 50%. Let's try some math here.

1/3rd of Kashmir is with Pakistan where there is no demand for Plebiscite, considering portion with China being barren rest 2/3rd is with India.

So out of hundred 66 are with India.

Assuming 45% is Jammu and Ladhak and 55% (On higher side is with valley)
So out of 100 29.7 is Jammu and Ladhak and 36.3 is valley
Assuming 10% in Jammu and Ladhak and 70% is Valley wants freedom
2.97 + 25.41 = 28.38 % (On higher side)

So only 28.38% maximum is asking for plebiscite way off from minimum 50% required.

Note: - The demand for Plebiscite should come from Azad Kashmir too if we are looking to count them in. If they are not saying anything implies they do not care. And for plebiscite It is required you ask for it.

 

[FreekiN]

oh... oh god...thats beautiful.

 

[DGMO]

How do you think the government could be flexible?

That is the $64million question. I'd be sitting in tomorrow's CCS meeting if I knew

But I think approaching the talks with the drop of preconditions attached might be a start. Go to Srinagar and don't do things at arms length. Request a meeting with all political leaders, but mainly the separatists.

It'd be a great way to say for MMS or anyone from the Cabinet 'I came all the way to Srinagar to hold talks, informal and with no set agenda, I came to listen, to express my sorrow and regret at the loss of life'.

These shouldn't be empty words of course, but India isn't stupid to realise that the people within the Valley are slipping away at a much greater rate than ever before.

I'm staggered that no-one from the Centre has taken the initiative and headed up to Kashmir to be there in person, do their best to have talks. Just letting this run and run, snowball out of control has got us to where we are - in limbo.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Technically India is still making out like a bandit in terms of the territories it has annexed through force.

I am posting here again, what I posted back a few pages back, concerning your case of Junagadh, and why India cannot be termed occupier.

Originally Posted by AgNoStIc MuSliM
More nonsense - how on earth does that passage change the fact that you have no justification for calling Junagadh's accession to Pakistan 'illegal and immoral', or the fact that the Maharajah was already fighting a rebellion against his dictatorial and discriminatory rule in Kashmir, BEFORE the Tribal's entered the conflict.

Before you accuse India of double standards, please be informed of the pretexts of these events. Read this(from Wikipedia):

The Muslim Nawab of Junagadh, Muhammad Mahabat Khanji III, whose ancestors had ruled Junagadh and small principalities for some two hundred years, decided that Junagadh should become part of Pakistan, much to the displeasure of the people of the state, an overwhelming majority of whom were Hindus. The Nawab acceded to the Dominion of Pakistan on 15 August 1947. Pakistan accepted this on 13 September. When Pakistan confirmed the acceptance of the accession in September, the Government of India was outraged that Muhammad Ali Jinnah could accept the accession of Junagadh despite his argument that Hindus and Muslims could not live as one nation.[1] Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel believed that if Junagadh was permitted to go to Pakistan, it would exacerbate the communal tension already simmering in Gujarat. The princely state was surrounded on all three sides by India, with an outlet to the Arabian Sea. The unsettled conditions in Junagadh had led to a cessation of all trade with India and the food position became precarious. The region was in crisis and the Nawab was forced to flee to Karachi with his family fearing for his life and established a provisional government with his followers.

Now if you think we should put the same logic to Kashmir, then FYI we did, and agreed to a plebiscite. But it never happened due to mis-adventures of Pakistan. Pakistan never kept its side of the bargain for the plebiscite to happen.

Read this (from Wikipedia as well):

Ranbir Singh's grandson Hari Singh had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925 and was the reigning monarch at the conclusion of British rule in the subcontinent in 1947. As a part of the partition process, both countries had agreed that the rulers of princely states would be given the right to opt for either Pakistan or India or — in special cases — to remain independent. In 1947, Kashmir's population was 77% Muslim and it shared a boundary with Pakistan. On 20 October 1947, tribesmen backed by Pakistan invaded Kashmir.[5] The Maharaja initially fought back but on 27 October appealed for assistance to the Governor-General Louis Mountbatten, who agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India.[6] Once the papers of accession to India were signed, Indian soldiers entered Kashmir with orders to stop any further occupation, but they were not allowed to expel anyone from the state. India took the matter to the United Nations.The UN resolution asked Pakistan to vacate the areas it has occupied and asked India to assist the U.N. Plebiscite Commission to organize a plebiscite to determine the will of the people. Pakistan refused to vacate the occupied areas.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Enter into tripartite negotiations with Pakistan and give the Kashmiris (Valley) a means to exercise their right to self-determination so that it no longer is a reason for protest.

Listening to Indians talk about the issue is like listening to a half-blind fellow trying to figure out where the elephants are, while standing between the legs of one ...

Is it always coincidence that you fail to notice what you should notice? The right to self-determination is not an option on the table. The segregation of Kashmir from India is unacceptable and unjust. Unacceptable officially, and unjust because it is a flawed vision and divisive for humanity.

Listen to what the PM has said. Talks can only happen within the purview of the constitution. So your option is already closed, has been closed since 47 and will remain so. Just like DGMO said, it is the internal matter of India and can only be resolved within itself.

When India says Kashmir is a bilateral issue between India in Pakistan, it means in the context of P O K and J & K, not J & K alone. J & K is not an issue of Pakistan, so as DGMO suggested, Pakistan should stop poking its nose in internal matters of India. As it already has, and so should members of this forum follow their country's official line.