Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Moorkh]

I Hope Bipan Chandra's India Since Independence is good enough source ..see page 395 . For better details read Mj Akbar's Siege Within . Rest of your post is rhetorical flush which Indians on this forum indulge quite often .

try reading the section about DMK from the same book again then.

you will see why your argument fails.

the secessionist movement was in 1950s, a time when india was consolidating itself as a young country. secondly as is mentioned in the same section, the other southern states did not support the DMK in its secessionist demands. a primary reason why the leaders moved away from secessionist demands to becoming part of the indian political arena.

also as has already been mentioned , it was non violent

 

[Pride]

Trust me, wht eva you are feeling we feel worst

I am not feeling anything as I dont have hate filled eyes.. You may continue..

Yeah right and we compare ourself with USA, geme a break

Now you learned that how a stupid post is responded so lets move ahead.

And also raping them is required you are ok with that too?? and what about killing children,

Raping is done by your so called "Freedom Fighters". I see nobody ever scolded them here. Kids were in protest for playing gilli danda? Why there parents did not stop them?

Anyways, You stop your freedom movements, we remove our army no **** and killing.

Oh am I forgetting smthn, what about the recent news in which kashmiri Boys were forced to walk naked by indian security forces, dont tell me you are ok with that too

Go take a nap and then come back, you have also missed many more propaganda articles about Kashmir.

Oh sorry my bad, Turkey is the the 2nd Fastest growing economy in the world, better luck next time

In cricket, even a debut player hits century his average becomes 100 but it does not mean that he is the best player in the world. Turkey outnumbered India only for wek but if this keeps you happy then you be it.

Oh we were also considered as the world fastest growing economy once,

Yes and Now you are in Top 10 failed nation index.

Now as I have discussed enough nonsense with you. Lets move either for a logical discussion or drop it here.

 

[Pride]

It is a book also published much earlier perhaps you can order it from M J AKBAR : Books by M J Akbar... Bipin chandra is not hardcore Marxist infact he criticizes Indian left on thier opposition to Mr. Gandhi However he utilizes marxist method albiet with some qualifications . Morever it is not about his interpretation but facts,which im sure you can easily dig out in this age of google . BTW you are talking to a Kashmiri from Sopore living in Srinagar .

Surely I will look out for the same and before that I am unable to comment.

Regarding bolded part, It doesnot matter for me your geographical location when you are using Syed Shah Geelani's Photograph and Pakistan's flag then you are as good as Pakistani for me.

 

[Moorkh]

as far as kashmir is concerned, agreed the people have some genuine greivances, they are not what they seem to be asking for when shouting those slogans.

kashmiris dont want to live in a state where the police and CRPF keep checking them for weapons. they see the CRPF as outsiders forcing themselves onto kashmir. reducing the CRPF presence can help in this regard, as long as the J&K police can handle the law and order problems by itself.

 

[civfanatic]

try reading the section about DMK from the same book again then.

you will see why your argument fails.

the secessionist movement was in 1950s, a time when india was consolidating itself as a young country. secondly as is mentioned in the same section, the other southern states did not support the DMK in its secessionist demands. a primary reason why the leaders moved away from secessionist demands to becoming part of the indian political arena.

also as has already been mentioned , it was non violent

Was there any arguement in my post ? I simply stated a fact that most of Indians here seemed to be unaware of or too reluctant to admit . I don't see how my non existing arguement fails .

 

[Areesh]

the same rule apply for Pakistan we know power of people example is BD

Yeah obviously he rule applies to Pakistan as well. The muslims of sub continent realized their power and result is partition of India and existence of Pakistan.

 

[civfanatic]

Surely I will look out for the same and before that I am unable to comment.

Regarding bolded part, It doesnot matter for me your geographical location when you are using Syed Shah Geelani's Photograph and Pakistan's flag then you are as good as Pakistani for me.

Well quite an accurate realization ...

 

[Pride]

as far as kashmir is concerned, agreed the people have some genuine greivances, they are not what they seem to be asking for when shouting those slogans.

kashmiris dont want to live in a state where the police and CRPF keep checking them for weapons. they see the CRPF as outsiders forcing themselves onto kashmir. reducing the CRPF presence can help in this regard, as long as the J&K police can handle the law and order problems by itself.

You are absolutely right.. I discussed with Kashmiris and they are actually fed up of many thing.
1) Presence of Indian Army and checking for Locals & their home
2) Cut away from mainstream Indian politics. Abdullahs and Muftis are not involving Kashmiris
3) Unemployment
4) Militants like LeJ, LeT, HUJI
5) Dubious politicians like Syed Ali shah Geelani who is in neighbour's payroll (Though I find Meerwaiz umar farooq bit sensible)
6) JK Police. Half are on double payroll of India as well as Pakistan hence if they kill even 1 people blame goes to India.
7) No proper commutation available to contact other side of Kashmiris.

 

[footmarks]

Well quite an accurate realization ...

I offer you a free of cost "Never-to-return" air ticket to mujaffarabad.

 

[civfanatic]

I offer you a free of cost "Never-to-return" air ticket to mujaffarabad.

What makes you think we will let you have this land . It belongs to us and we will never betray our land ....

 

[footmarks]

What makes you think we will let you have this land . It belongs to us and we will never betray our land ....

Mujaffarabad is not part of your land??

 

[mikkix]

Kashmiri separatist are exposed.one of the hurriyat leader son study in UK,another one's son study in delhi university,and these morons are using the youth to throw stones.

where Gandhi completed his education,,some other examples too..

 

[EjazR]

Looks like in their "happiness" of the slogan, some Pakistanis have not even read and understood the article.

Here you have a firece critic of the Indian state and well known liberal criticising the Kashmiri political class. There is no doubt that Kashmir leaders from Geelani to Mirwaiz to Abdullas are one of the main reason behind the misery of their people.

He is trying to open the eyes of the reclusive KAshmiris in the valley to broaden thier horizon and engage the civil society of India rather than alienate them. Only then they will see a change in their situation.

The reason is simple. The only two ways that a major change will come in the Kashmir situation is
(1) A international superpower militarily intervenes. This is not going to happen as the US afterits adventure in Iraq and Afghanistan has no appetite. Any lesser powers like Pakistan or China attempting to do will fail as was seen in Kargil.

(2) Build civil society opinion in India for a settlement inKashmir. India as a democratic country has to answer to the electorate. The "plebescite" can't berestricted to the valley or J&K state, ithas to be the entire Indian state. If Kashmiri politcal leaders join hand with injustice happening inother parts of India,then naturally Indian civil society will help them out in turn. Infact they are already doing so now. And it is because of the Indian civil society pressure and NOT International pressure that a number of packages are coming up.

Some Kashmiri political leaders are realising this fact and instead of asking OIC, UN, US e.t.c. they are now focussing their attention on Indian civil society. They are running road shows to explain to people what is happening. Something that never happened before. Even Geelani has stated that offensive slogans against India should not be raised.

This is what Jawed Naqvi is alluding to. To realise the folly on asking International community (forget Pakistan) and to focus in joining hands with other Indians fighting injustice. The problems that Kashmiris face are not unique and if they only broaden their horzons they will see that just a few 100 kilometresaway last year, 70 Gujjars lost their lives in Gujjar agitations for reservations; that UP has had 300+ cases of deaths in police firing and so on. They will have a stronger voice when the voice of rest of India is behind them when the fight injustice.

That was the point of the article.

 

[Trisonics]

Can some body from Pakistan explain how they see "azaadi" for Kashmir?

a) Freedom for people of Kashmir from India.

b) Freedom for Kashmir(land) from India.

For all the hatred that you spew from across the border, why not just open the gates and let Kashmiris(who wish to move) into your side ??? After all its still Azadi is it not? You guys do occupy a part of Kashmir anyway..so why not help the people you are so concerned about?? Atleast its a start and rather than just typing away your sympathies..you actually did something for the Kashmiris from "Hindu" occupation.

 

[Pride]

What makes you think we will let you have this land . It belongs to us and we will never betray our land ....

It has first right of Kashmiri Pandits whom you and your friends exiled forcefully and now you are coming with victim like rhetoric.