Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[PAFAce]

Sad and pathetic attempt to sweep the Kashmir struggle under the carpet. The exact purpose of a plebiscite is to determine what the majority wants. India won't hold a plebiscite, neither will they let the UN hold a poll in the region, neither do they allow foreign media free access to the people in the Valley and so on. The reason they don't allow such is because they do not want the truth to become too popular internationally, which would render such pieces of writing completely ridiculous in most people's eyes.

One thing Kashmiris of the Valley agree on is that, regardless of their vision of Azadi, They do not want to be a part of India. The message simply couldn't be any clearer, but you guys can continue being blind, I wouldn't expect anything else from the majority.

 

[Patriot]

The Indians are in typical denial mode.If Kashmiris are so happy with Indians then why all the protests?Don't give me the the Pakistan Did this bs.There are hundreds of people on streets so i am sure not all of them are Pakistanis.Look they may not want to join Pakistan but they sure want to separate India and that is where our role comes to facilitate that.

 

[RamGorur]

Sad and pathetic attempt to sweep the Kashmir struggle under the carpet.

Truth is stranger than fiction.

India won't hold a plebiscite...

Because conditions subject to which plebiscite were to be held remain unfulfilled and pursuant to Shimla agreement Pakistan agreed to solve it bilaterally.

...neither will they let the UN hold a poll in the region...

UN can't hold plebiscite suo motu.

....neither do they allow foreign media free access to the people in the Valley and so on. The reason they don't allow such is because they do not want the truth to become too popular internationally, which would render such pieces of writing completely ridiculous in most people's eyes.

Foreign media gets far more access to Kashmir than they are given in P0K. Polls by Peacepolls or Chatamhouse polls were not conducted in vacuum.

Heck, Kashmiris in P0K are not even allowed to hold a political stance that is contradictory to Pakistan's official stance. There are several international reports confirming this.

One thing Kashmiris of the Valley agree on is that, regardless of their vision of Azadi, They do not want to be a part of India

Not enough. Not enough at all. A section of Baluchistanis also do not want to be with Pakistan. That doesn't mean Pakistan should let go of Baluchistan. Does it?

 

[RamGorur]

It is your view that the Kashmirs freedom movement does not have clearly defined goals and vision . And your opinion and seems to be motivated and clouded by usual Bias that a nationalistic Indian is supposed to have .Coming back to Tarun Vijays piece It is clear that it is an extreme effort at self gratification and self indulgance .

If it is not a 'state' secret and is not too much of inconvenience can you throw some light on some of those 'clearly defined goals and vision', on economy (currently its GoI' huge subsidy that is keeping the fire in your mum's oven burning), security (being sandwiched between three nuclear powered nation), foreign affairs (having to depend entirely either on India and Pakistan for port facilities, being a land locked country, how far will it be able to maintain an independent foreign policy).

Do you want 'azadi' for whole of Kashmir, including P0K? (If P0K is included in your grand scheme of things then the only way you can make it 'azad' is by waging war with Pakistan. Pakistan doesn't even allow Kashmiris of P0K to talk about 'azadi'). Or will it be comprised of 4 districts of Anantanag, Srinagar, Baramulla and Kupwara?

 

[ejaz007]

Here is another blog. Well the other point of view as one migth say:

KASHMIR FREEDOM MOVEMENT, Tehreek-e-Azadi

 

[ejaz007]

If it is not a 'state' secret and is not too much of inconvenience can you throw some light on some of those 'clearly defined goals and vision', on economy (currently its GoI' huge subsidy that is keeping the fire in your mum's oven burning), security (being sandwiched between three nuclear powered nation), foreign affairs (having to depend entirely either on India and Pakistan for port facilities, being a land locked country, how far will it be able to maintain an independent foreign policy).

Do you want 'azadi' for whole of Kashmir, including P0K? (If P0K is included in your grand scheme of things then the only way you can make it 'azad' is by waging war with Pakistan. Pakistan doesn't even allow Kashmiris of P0K to talk about 'azadi'). Or will it be comprised of 4 districts of Anantanag, Srinagar, Baramulla and Kupwara?

Government of Pakistan's stance is quite clear. Do not try to create new scenarios which do not exist and shall never exist.

After a plebescite is held and people of Kashmir give their decision entire Kashmir shall including Azad Kashmir and Indian Occupied Kashmir form one unit and people shall live their lives according to their wishes.

If you have slightest of intelligence left you should know that Pakistan has not made Kashmir fifith province and it is pretty much free. They have their own constitution, parliament, president and prime minister. Pakistan has kept this arrangement purely because they are waiting for the people to decide what they want. If they wish to join us well and good otherwise they should live their lives according to their wishes.

 

[RamGorur]

Government of Pakistan's stance is quite clear. Do not try to create new scenarios which do not exist and shall never exist.

After a plebescite is held and people of Kashmir give their decision entire Kashmir shall including Azad Kashmir and Indian Occupied Kashmir form one unit and people shall live their lives according to their wishes.

What is GoP's stance on Kashmiri 'independence'?

If you have slightest of intelligence left you should know that Pakistan has not made Kashmir fifith province and it is pretty much free. They have their own constitution, parliament, president and prime minister. Pakistan has kept this arrangement purely because they are waiting for the people to decide what they want. If they wish to join us well and good otherwise they should live their lives according to their wishes.

Now, since I have only slight intelligence, certainly not as much as yours, Pakistan can't officially make it integral to it because then it will weaken its stand on Kashmir, not to mention, make it look like a conquest.

As with the P0K being free, you are only fooling yourself. As I said, there are several international reports that call that bluff.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What is GoP's stance on Kashmiri 'independence'?

The GoP's stand is that the Kashmiris have the 'Azadi' to be allowed to exercise the right to self-determination.

Now, since I have only slight intelligence, certainly not as much as yours, Pakistan can't officially make it integral to it because then it will weaken its stand on Kashmir, not to mention, make it look like a conquest.

Yes, and our stand on Kashmir is to allow the Kashmiris to exercise their right to self-determination. That is a pretty noble motive.

As with the P0K being free, you are only fooling yourself. As I said, there are several international reports that call that bluff.

Historically, most territories under Islamabad's purview have had to deal with excessive centralized control. But that appears to be changing in the current government with the 18th amendment and devolving a lot of powers to the provinces and more equitable sharing of resources between the Center and Provinces.

Regardless, it does not change anything with respect to the GoP's position on the Kashmiri right to self-determination.

 

[RamGorur]

The GoP's stand is that the Kashmiris have the 'Azadi' to be allowed to exercise the right to self-determination.

Yes, and our stand on Kashmir is to allow the Kashmiris to exercise their right to self-determination. That is a pretty noble motive.

Noble motive indeed. Does GoP's definition of Kashmiris include Northern Areas (Gilgit, Baltistan, Hunza)? Do the Kashmiris of P0K have the 'azadi' to self-determine their 'azadi'?

Historically, most territories under Islamabad's purview have had to deal with excessive centralized control. But that appears to be changing in the current government with the 18th amendment and devolving a lot of powers to the provinces and more equitable sharing of resources between the Center and Provinces.

Good job. Now all that remains is to implement it on the ground and just not build up a facade like 'Azad' Kashmir.

Regardless, it does not change anything with respect to the GoP's position on the Kashmiri right to self-determination.

Appreciable stand. Although my query remains unanswered. Is the option for 'azadi' officially on the table?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Noble motive indeed. Does GoP's definition of Kashmiris include Northern Areas (Gilgit, Baltistan, Hunza)? Do the Kashmiris of P0K have the 'azadi' to self-determine their 'azadi'?

While the GoP would prefer to argue differently, it has abided with the international consensus on G-B being a part of the disputed territory of J&K and not integrated it into Pakistan as a fifth province, despite tremendous popular demand inside G-B for such a move. That directly implies that a plebiscite would include G-B as well, and including G-B would in fact be in Pakistan's favor (in case of a single plebiscite over all of J&K) given the millions of votes that it would bring in favor of Pakistan.

Good job. Now all that remains is to implement it on the ground and just not build up a facade like 'Azad' Kashmir.

Irrelevant to the point of allowing the Kashmiris to exercise self-determination.

Appreciable stand. Although my query remains unanswered. Is the option for 'azadi' officially on the table?

Once tripartite negotiations between the Kashmiris, India and Pakistan on conducting a plebiscite start, who knows. But India first has to commit to implementing its promise of allowing the Kashmiris to exercise their right to self-determination. These 'what if's' can only be addressed once that irrational nationalism driving Indian occupation of Kashmir ends.

 

[sasuke]

For plebiscite to occur, it has to include P0K and Northern Areas along with J&K ... also no UN resolution give Kashmiris the right to independence. They have to be either part of India or Pakistan ....

Which means ... Pakistan stand of Independence for Kashmir is long lost!!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

For plebiscite to occur, it has to include P0K and Northern Areas along with J&K ... also no UN resolution give Kashmiris the right to independence. They have to be either part of India or Pakistan ....

That would be why Pakistan has not integrated them into Pakistan ...

Which means ... Pakistan stand of Independence for Kashmir is long lost!!!

That can be negotiated in discussions, but first India has to come back to the table and re-commit to the Kashmiri right to self-determination.

 

[Hulk]

If GOP is pro freedom then let me allow to create a separate country called Kashmir and then ask India to allow them to join. You can also call UN and get plebiscite done and then say look we have done this here and now India should follow.
Practice what you preach.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If GOP is pro freedom then let me allow to create a separate country called Kashmir and then ask India to allow them to join. You can also call UN and get plebiscite done and then say look we have done this here and now India should follow.
Practice what you preach.

huh?

Practice making sense first perhaps ...

 

[sasuke]

Renegotiated? Kashmir as an independent state is not economically viable ... countries on both sides know that and the whole world agrees that. Then why do you try to support for something which will create more chaos for the people in Kashmir?