Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[graphican]

and you think pelting stones at civilians and forcing others to close shops will help them get it??they are now making innocent Kashmiries lives hell..

This is their maximum way of protesting.. fear of the day when they would hold Arms like Taliban and would take this movement to the next levels. May be even then you wouldn't realize what are they looking for and with what intensity.

 

[Ras]

Conventional rule of thumb says that you need 50 years to either squash a deep rooted insurgency or have the occupying force leave after running out of money.
The Kashmir insurgency started in 1987 so it has been around 25 years ie another 25 to go before the issue is settled.

India cannot be forced out of Kashmir with force they have to run out of resources...I always thought that Pakistan missed a golden opportunity in the early 90's when India was bankrupt.

 

[RobbieS]

What India needs is for the army to be given free hand in Kashmir. 6 months is all it will take before the state is cleaned up for good.

But our weak diplomacy has always tied the army's hands, so that all justified kills have to be cloaked in endless red tape for God knows who.

The nation needs to realise that we are at war. And wars are fought with armies, not the police.

All this laughing about getting slapped around and beaten up, as weak lilly livered come backs for the same fate suffered a thousandfold on previous occasion at a national level, will thn be seen in its true light.

There is no use keeping the dogs of war tied up for posterity. They need to be let loose on an open field once in a while. One only needs to see the health and vitality of our neighbours armed forces to see the truth in that.

Cheers, Doc

With all due respect, I'd disagree with that. I am aware of the situation, outside support and internal strife, but an exclusively army operation is no solution. Punjab saw that in the 90s and though it will look peaceful to you, the embers are still hot. That decade and the brutality scarred a generation. Kashmir has already experienced far worse than that and will continue if a humanitarian solution is not founded. Violence, state or non-state is simply not the solution.

 

[graphican]

What India needs is for the army to be given free hand in Kashmir. 6 months is all it will take before the state is cleaned up for good.

But our weak diplomacy has always tied the army's hands, so that all justified kills have to be cloaked in endless red tape for God knows who. When you call in the exterminator, you instruct him to kill all the rats. You do not tell him this particular *** is different from this one, and hence needs to be coming under the wheels of your car accidentally in the driveway rather than being drowned like the common *** he is.

The nation needs to realise that we are at war. And wars are fought with armies, not the police.

All this laughing about getting slapped around and beaten up, as weak lilly livered comebacks for the same fate suffered a thousandfold on previous occasions at a national level, will then be seen in its true light.

There is no use keeping the dogs of war tied up for posterity. They need to be let loose on an open field once in a while. One only needs to see the health and vitality of our neighbours armed forces to see the truth in that.

Cheers, Doc

If your suggested policies are enforced, I am sure Kashmir will be liberated within 2 years of less. Please try spreading your message to the people responsible for decision making. I would support you.

 

[Dash]

Oh really if its so why is bharti govt and bhartis are so afraid to hold a referendum there under UN .

You should not be afraid after all according to your claims majority votes will be polled in favour of India.

Look who has answered me?...

Ok Jana -

You will hold a referrendum under UN, but on what Kashmir?
The kashmir has to come back to its original shape as it was before right. We need to demark the true areas of kashmir and the residents to hold a referrendum?, will you agree with me?

 

[Spring Onion]

What India needs is for the army to be given free hand in Kashmir. 6 months is all it will take before the state is cleaned up for good.

But our weak diplomacy has always tied the army's hands, so that all justified kills have to be cloaked in endless red tape for God knows who.

The nation needs to realise that we are at war. And wars are fought with armies, not the police.

All this laughing about getting slapped around and beaten up, as weak lilly livered come backs for the same fate suffered a thousandfold on previous occasion at a national level, will thn be seen in its true light.

There is no use keeping the dogs of war tied up for posterity. They need to be let loose on an open field once in a while. One only needs to see the health and vitality of our neighbours armed forces to see the truth in that.

Cheers, Doc

When was the last time Indian terrorist army with modern Israeli deadly weapons had not a free hand to kill Kashmiris.

 

[Spring Onion]

Look who has answered me?...

Ok Jana -

You will hold a referrendum under UN, but on what Kashmir?
The kashmir has to come back to its original shape as it was before right. We need to demark the true areas of kashmir and the residents to hold a referrendum?, will you agree with me?

Hold it on entire Kashmir Indian Occupied Jammu and Kashmir and Azad Kashmir.


We have no issue with that. Musharraf had given all options though many at our side didnt like these BUT i say let the Kashmiris decide what they want.

If they want to be with India let them do so

if they want to be with Pakistan let them do so

If they want to be independent let them do so

 

[karan.1970]

Nobody is stopping you from discussing any part of Pakistan BUT please do it in appropriate thread and DO NOT compare NWFP/KP, Sindh, Punjab, Balochistan and so on with Occupied Kashmir.

As far as Indian insurgencies are concerned we do not compare Kashmir with those but i am afraid Indians have some problem with their thinking.

But these insurgencies are very similar (actually the ones in NWFP are much more dangerous) except the political situation of a UN resolutions. So while there is this distinction, there arer a bunch of similarities as well. Like Indian claiming Pakistani interfearance and Pakistan claiming the same from India. Both are armed insurgencies. Civilians get killed in both.. So while I agree that detailed discucssions on these merit separate threads, there is always scope for contextual reference while discussing either.. Dont you think so???

 

[karan.1970]

Hold it on entire Kashmir Indian Occupied Jammu and Kashmir and Azad Kashmir.


We have no issue with that. Musharraf had given all options though many at our side didnt like these BUT i say let the Kashmiris decide what they want.

If they want to be with India let them do so

if they want to be with Pakistan let them do so

If they want to be independent let them do so

Conviniently missing out the Northern Areas.. Are we??

 

[gubbi]

BUT i say let the Kashmiris decide what they want.

If they want to be with India let them do so

if they want to be with Pakistan let them do so

If they want to be independent let them do so

How hypocritical!

When Kashmir was independent back in 1947, it was Pakistan who invaded Kashmir on a very flimsy pretext, blaming India. India wasnt interested in interfering till Mountbatten, Nehru and Sardar Patel laid down conditions for the Maharaja to accede to the Indian Union. WHen the accord was a done deed, only then India sent in troops to push back Pakistani regulars who had reached Srinagar and were almost about to take the airport!

Lolz. And now Pakistanis call India the aggressors and occupiers? Now you people show your pseudo-sympathies for Kashmiris? Oh Yeah - pot calling the kettle black!

You blatantly disregarded the first ever UN resolution on Kashmir (being non-binding didnt help) and now you cry hoarse over UN monitored plebiscite?

You dont have your own house in order and yet want to interfere in others' affairs? Your govt cannot control all the areas that it claims to be sovereign Pakistani territories, and yet you want to control Kashmir and dream of controlling some parts if India?

You have people have no control over your own country and want to control Kashmir? Pray, how are you going to ever control Kashmir, eh?

 

[Dash]

Hold it on entire Kashmir Indian Occupied Jammu and Kashmir and Azad Kashmir.


We have no issue with that. Musharraf had given all options though many at our side didnt like these BUT i say let the Kashmiris decide what they want.

If they want to be with India let them do so

if they want to be with Pakistan let them do so

If they want to be independent let them do so

True -

But UN referrendum to take place there has to be a acceptance of this resolution from both sides first and according to the UN.

Now at least we will be in agreement that :-

The United Nations brokered a cease-fire in 1949, and a five-member commission made up of Argentina, Belgium, Columbia, Czechoslovakia and the United States drew up a resolution calling for a referendum to decide Kashmir's future.

And to be honest we never allowed at that time and there are several reasons.

1.The United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan, Having received from the Governments of India and Pakistan, in communications dated 23 December and 25 December 1948, respectively, their acceptance of the following principles which are supplementary to the Commission's Resolution of 13 August 1948:

1. The question of the accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan will be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite;

2. A plebiscite will be held when it shall be found by the Commission that the cease-fire and truce arrangements set forth in Parts I and II of the Commission's resolution of 13 August 1948 have been carried out and arrangements for the plebiscite have been completed;

There are several other pointers to it as well.

However - Is it right to bring Argentina, Belgium, Columbia, Czechoslovakia and the United States. Who are not even aware of the situation in kashmir, the so called independent states never even know that the population of kashmir was devided into 3 religions, Hindu, Muslim and Buddhism.

2. The so called cease fire never happened and Pakistan taking advantage of this plebiscite which was seen as a future viable solution inflicted damage to Hindu communities to leave that place so as to get only Muslim count votes, which in other terms damages the very foundations of this IDEA.

As of now I dont see there is any such possibility, coz the kashmir that was referred to in 1949 and the kashmir that we are reffering today has no connection and there has been a paradigm shift both in religion, culture, people and most importantly the ideas that governed this very state back then.

 

[Spring Onion]

Monday, July 5, 2010
Indian army’s atrocities in Kashmir


he recent incident in which a serving India Army Major from 4 Rajput Regiment assigned a Special Police Officer (SPO) to trap three unsuspecting youth from Nadihal village to Indian Army Camp in Jammu & Kashmir, on the promise of jobs and money but were murdered. Later they were projected as hard core militant. This is not the first incident of its kind as there are over 800 such incident so far reported Kashmiris are suffering since 1935, first it was Dogra Army under the patronage of British imperialists and now Indian Army has taken the charge.

If we recall, on March 20, 2000, Indian media projected that a group of Lashkar-e-Tayyiaba (LeT) militants massacred 35 Sikhs in the village of Chittisinghpora in Anantnag district. In a mere five days, the Indian Army claimed that elements of its Rashtriya Rifles (RR) and the Special Operations Group (SOG) of the Jammu and Kashmir Police killed all the five foreign militants involved in the incident in a joint operation at a place called Pathribal. Ironically, Army claimed that bodies off the entire militant were burnt to unrecognizable degree and have been buried in a mass grave. Interestingly, it came to light at a later stage that elements of RR had killed the Sikhs to spread communal hatred among the Kashmiris. In the mean time, immediately after the massacre of the Sikhs, five local Kashmiris got missing. Their relatives also lodged report in the Anantnag police station about the disappearance but after the publication of news about Army operation in which five militants were killed, the relative requested for exhumation of the bodies. Interestingly, the family members and the villagers identified the bodies and reveled that they were simple people and had nothing to do with militancy or LeT.

It is generally observed that the Politicians in New Delhi usually get disturbed over the reaction of Kashmiri leaders over pity issues. They view that when Indian centre has already done enough for the development of Jammu and Kashmir state then why majority of the Kashmiris are not satisfied and look for opportunities to protest and create law and order situation. One would like to remind them pre-independence period when Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and other communities in India were doing the same to get rid of the imperialist intruders. Today there is a clear message for India to get out of Jammu and Kashmir state. One wonders that if New Delhi has any doubt in its mind, Kashmiri Hindu Pandits and Sikhs may be asked whether they would like to become part of India or otherwise. If in India failed to attract Hindu and Sikh minorities living in Jammu and Kashmir state to become part of Indian union, New Delhi should not have any doubt about the Kashmiri Muslim majority. It is open like a book that majority of Kashmiris want to join Pakistan while a small percentage look for complete independence.

It is sad to observe that despite all the advertisement about Human Rights and presence of International law and statues like Hague and Geneva Conventions, no action has been taken against Indian Army. One wonders why so far no one is able to file case against the Indian Army for committing war crimes. In this civilized world, the genocide of Kashmiris is openly taking place by Indian security forces and its intelligence units but no one is there to stop them. The notorious Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) is being used as a shield by Indian authorities to provide indemnification to war criminals for their atrocities committed in the line of duty, or so called good faith. Last week, top Kashmiri leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani was arrested from special prayer meeting convened by him at Hazratbal Shrine and is booked under section 151 and 107. He is presently confined at Central Jail Srinagar. The highhandedness of Indian authorities can be judged from the fact that Syed Ali Geelani was also arrested last month and released under court orders but he has been again arrested. It worth mentioning that Indian authorities are waiting for the deaths of top Kashmiri leaders like Syed Ali Geelani so there is no one to take the name of Kashmir Movement.

My Human Zoo: Indian army’s atrocities in Kashmir.

 

[Spring Onion]

Bro I am not talking about a pure military operation in isolation. I however have a more than fair idea of what our fauj goes through in the valley daily. I have lost friends. I have less than zero sympathy for bastards who call themselves Indian, eat from the Indian thali, and then make a ched in the same thali.

Kashmiris dont call themselves Indians. They are NOT Indians. thats the main point.

They are worse than Pakistanis. At least with Pakistanis you know where you stand.

Cheers, Doc

Watch out your mouth. We are much better than bharti munafiqs

 

[Raghu]

With all due respect, I'd disagree with that. I am aware of the situation, outside support and internal strife, but an exclusively army operation is no solution. Punjab saw that in the 90s and though it will look peaceful to you, the embers are still hot. That decade and the brutality scarred a generation. Kashmir has already experienced far worse than that and will continue if a humanitarian solution is not founded. Violence, state or non-state is simply not the solution.

Robbies,

How is ur boy Omar abdullah doing in kashmir??

U once called this guy , future leader of this country, he is son of powerful politician,and thats it about him.
............................................................

Its time for local politicians of Kashmir to charge and placate the young kashmiri boys by give them sound direction,but no, old Kaskmiri leader busy doing this:

 

[Iggy]

This is their maximum way of protesting.. fear of the day when they would hold Arms like Taliban and would take this movement to the next levels. May be even then you wouldn't realize what are they looking for and with what intensity.

This is not the maximum way its just the another way when previous way had failed..people came there from different part of the world in the name of religion and money to have proxy war and it had been backfired now they are changing the stand to look it like the victims..