Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[JonAsad]

EjazR is India's superstar on PDF. How many agree?

An arguement will be worthy if the source is neutral, it creates an atmosphere of healthy unbiased conversation.

Dont you think i can give you a local Pakistani source stating otherwise?

for me rupee news = ToI, TH, dnaindia

 

[mikkix]

its like.. when we kill innocent kashmiris dont bring it on news.

where's the freeeedom of information now?

????????????????????????

 

[nForce]

Hey.. You dont see Indians jumping up and down talking about Azad (yeah) Kashmir issues and why it should belong to India (most of the time though). We know we have problems like Naxals and would rather focus on solving those.

However Pakistanis on the other hand, despite having a much larger issue inside their country (that kills 50-100 people almost every week routinely) are still more concerned with whats happening outside their borders.

Keep it up guys.. You are doing it to yourself...

There are a lot of sensible Pakistani people too,who really understand what is the actual need of their country.I mean the economy is facing serious level of hurdles,the political structure has been severely eroded,country is troubled with massive power shortagethe society is full of people with radical outlook,there are regions in Pakistan that may be considered as semi-autonomous pockets,and I should not even start talking about the national security.

But there are many who still proudly play the role of being more Arab than actual middle Eastern Arabs,more Palestinian than actual Palestinians,more Egyptian than actual Egyptians,more Syrians than actual Syrians,more Iraqi than the actual Iraqis,more Afghan than actual Afghans,more Chechen than actual Chechens,more Bangladeshi than actual Bangladeshis and finally more Kashmiri than the actual Kashmiris.What happens when it comes to play the role of a responsible Pakistani???

I have seen a similar post like this by another Pakistani member.I just repeated the words.

I just want to know who is that insane person in the face of Earth who thinks that they can win over Kashmir by sending 2-3 of those brainwashed,uneducated gun-wielding kids every other month???They take all the pains to cross those unforgiving heights,the snow,the blizzards,and not to mention the Indian border fencing and fortifications,come to our home territory and quickly become live targets for some shooting practice of Indian security Forces.

Tried with Operation Gibraltar and failed,tried again in 1971 and failed,tried again in 1984 and failed,tried again with numerous terrorist attacks and proxy wars and failed,tried again in 1999 during Kargil conflict and failed.
And in the mean time,the situation in the home ground kept on deteriorating.While some sane Pakistanis understood the urgency of the situation,many others just don't give a damn.
Henceforth,they continue to play their role of global citizens,irrespective of whether their screaming hardly makes any difference or not.

Just one word,regrettable.

 

[EjazR]

This particular case is for 10th July when there was no deaths. That is why the news channel apologized as well and because of the charged situation why the curfew was imposed in Pulwama area.

There was similarly another fake news of a temple being burned down in protests from a Jammu based organisation and those newspapers had their license cancelled as well.

 

[EjazR]

I am a lousy politician, can't sell myself well: Omar Abdullah - All That Matters - Sunday TOI - Home - The Times of India

SRINAGAR: "I am a lousy politician". Beleaguered J&K chief minister Omar Abdullah offers the candid remark as he comes under attack for presiding over a failing administration. Even as he is criticized for appearing to be clueless about how to restore order to the sensitive state, Abdullah seems to recognize the need for course correction.

In an exclusive interview to TOI, he admitted there was a need to be more accessible to colleagues and the people of Kashmir, who find him aloof, distant and given to unilateral decisions. He also argued strongly for the restoration of dialogue.

He agreed that he had an image deficit as he was too "lousy" a politician to sell himself well. "I am perhaps a bad salesman. I am really bad at propaganda. I cannot sell myself, which makes me a lousy politician." He complained that he got no support from his party, the National Conference, to bridge the communication gap with the electorate. "My party is also at fault. If I am a bad salesman then the party should come up and communicate with the people."

But the chief minister was frank in his admission that he has to "increase direct interaction with the public". He said, "Unfortunately, I prefer small-town meetings with 20 people where I can attend to their problems, than large gatherings of thousands where I give a speech and get on a helicopter and fly away."

Even as the worsening situation raised concern the gains of the last few years would be reversed, Abdullah spoke about correctives with a sense of urgency. "I have already made up any mind to have meetings at tehsil levels so that more people can interact with me freely."

He further said: "The biggest lesson that I have learnt from the crisis is that I will spend less time in office and more in the field."

The young chief minister also agreed that he needed to sound sensitive to public sentiment. But he rejected criticism of frequent family weekends in Delhi. He said political dialogue must urgently be revived.

Excerpts of interview :

Why did you decide to ease curfew restrictions on Friday evening?

We knew we could not justify holding of the festival, Shabi Miraj, under curfew conditions. We were counting on the better sense of the majority. Fortunately, this is what happened. We discussed the plan over the past two days and that is how things played out.

Your decision to call for Army assistance in Srinagar hasn't gone down well with residents, and is being seen as a sign of your weakness. Do you regret the decision?

Not at all. I had only one objective, to ensure that there are no more deaths. I didn't bother how it reflected on me politically or administratively. The raw anger that was visible should not translate into more deaths. Therefore, we discussed with our ministers, officials, corps commander who is my security advisor, and the Northern Army commander. We had worked out our strategy. Fortunately, the premise on which it was taken, turned out correct. Yesterday, (Friday) the Army did not come out, and today too, we didn't have the Army out.

So are you asking the Army to go back?

No, we are keeping the option available to me until the 13th when they (the separatists) have called an “Idgah chalo” protest march...we will review the decision again.

The widespread complaint is that you lack a firm grip on the administration. And the crisis, many believe, seems to reflect that.

We had trouble for two weeks in some parts of the cities. It cannot reflect how bad governance has been. If it indeed was bad, then protests should have spread across the state. The troubles erupted in areas where we got very low polling percentage in elections, where voting was less than 20% even in the 2008 election that was considered a major success. Areas where there were larger turnouts in the past elections have been peaceful in these two weeks.

Many accuse your government of mishandling the crisis.

When normalcy is restored I would personally, and with others, analyze the entire situation so that we can learn from this crisis. I had a difficult situation to deal with and I took what I presumed were appropriate decisions.

Are you worried you might be disconnected from the public?

How can that be true when I have had more cabinet meetings in these few months this year than what past CMs may have had in an entire year? How can you accuse me of being disconnected when I have had 44 district development board meetings in the past year alone? Of course, I can increase the quantum of public interaction. That is something that has come out of it. I have to increase my direct interactions with the public. Unfortunately, I prefer small town-hall meetings with 20 people, where I can attend to their problems, than large gatherings of thousands where I give a speech and get on a helicopter and fly away. I have already made up my mind to go and have meetings at the tehsil levels, so that more people can interact with me freely.

There are complaints that you have surrendered yourself to a coterie.

How can anyone accuse me of (surrendering to) a coterie when I am dealing directly with all my senior officials and cabinet members? I don't deal with the DG or chief secretary through a coterie. I have a telephone where I have a button for each of my ministers. They also have to only press a button to talk to me. All of them also have my mobile numbers.

If this is the reality, why is there such a buzz in this city and among your senior officials about your failings as an administrator?

Perhaps I am a bad salesman. I am really bad at propaganda. I cannot sell myself, which makes me a lousy politician. Here people do one thing and sell 20 claims. I do 20 things and sell just one. My party is also at fault. If I am a bad salesman, then the party should come up and communicate with the people. The biggest lesson that I have learned from the crisis is that I will spend less time in office and more in the field.

If you look at the street protests and violence, you see a larger frustration among the people about the government's inability to bring lasting peace. Is that something you agree with?

Both the state and centre have realized in the last 15 days that the absence of political dialogue is not healthy for the state. We have to keep making efforts to reach out to those away from the political process. Many mistook the 2008 election as the end of the problem. No, it is not; it is one of the means to finding the end to the problem. Look at the present crisis: the root of the problem also lies in the absence of such effort...Some initiatives need to be taken. Of course, governance I need to handle. I need to improve delivery, public contact and public perception.

Are you frightened by the scale of vested interest in strife — from stone-throwers to policemen — that have emerged from two decades of militancy?

Yes, I am surprised. We all know there are vested interests. It is easy to make the mistake of seeing everything in black and white in J&K. Not all protests are instigated by the LeT. It is a mixture of both. How we handle protests determines what happens the next day.

There are allegations about your too-frequent weekends in Delhi with your family?

I put in long hours at work from Monday to Saturday. I travel around a lot. When things are fine, nobody remembers my weekend trip to Delhi. Did the trouble arise because I was in Delhi? I haven't left the state for a month now. If my absence is the problem then there should not be the present problem. The way I work I can understand issues in five minutes what someone else may take half an hour. Often, the longer you sit in a meeting is reflected as one's capability. I do not agree with that. In 18 months of my tenure, I have had a couple of bad weeks this year, and a couple of bad weeks last year. If those two bad weeks are going to be used to assess me, then I can't help it. That is politics, I suppose.

 

[mikkix]

Media is now becomes the part of all conspiracies..

 

[EjazR]

I would have hoped that a better title would be that "Indian citizens also condemn HR abuse in Kashmir" because thats what this thread really is about. I would request members to refrain from going offtopic and talking about militants and independence movements either in Kashmir or Pakistan. It would be thoughtful if the mods would change the title of the thread as indicated as well but that is their prerogative.

This open letter published in many papers also lists some important points that the J&K govt. and the Home ministry in particular should look into asap.

--------

To,
National Human Rights Commission,
National Commission for the Protection of Children,
Office of the Chief Justice of India,
Ministry of Home Affairs,
Chief Minsiter of J & K,
Planning Commission,

Dear Sir,

We, the undersigned, as a vigilant group of citizens submit our concerns regarding the prevailing situation in Jammu and Kashmir and urge your immediate assistance in ensuring that the Government of India and the state government takes immediate action to prevent further loss of life and property and initiate an impartial investigation into the recent killings in the region.
The political situation in Jammu and Kashmir has worsened over the last few weeks, which has in turn strengthened the existing culture of impunity in the region. The current crisis also has serious humanitarian consequences.
On June 29, 2010 at least three persons were killed in indiscriminate firing and excessive use of force by the police in Anantnag district of the Kashmir Valley. Four persons were killed in firing on 5-6 July, 2010. It is estimated that more than 15 civilians have been killed and several others injured in the unprecedented use of force by the J & K police and paramilitary, especially the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) in a span of two-three weeks. Several of those killed were children: Tufail Matoo (17), Javid Ahmad Malla (18), Shakeel Ahmad Ganai (14), Firdous Ahmed Kakroo (17), Asif Hasan Rather (9), Ishtiyaq Ahmad Khanday (15 from Anantnag), Imtiyaz Ahmad Itoo (17, from Anantnag), Muzaffar Ahmad Bhat (17), and Abrar Ahmad (17). Several protest marches organized across the Valley in response to the killings were met with indiscriminate firing by the security forces deployed in the region. We condemn the recent killings of children in Kashmir.
Over the past few days, the response by the security forces has been such that, on available accounts, even ambulances have not been spared. Media reports state that at three places, including at Safakadal and at Sangam on the Srinagar- Jammu highway, the CRPF fired on ambulances. Moreover, due to the imposition of curfew in the Valley, paramedics have been unable to reach hospitals as a result of which the existing hospital staff have been working over 36 hour shifts to tend to the injured. Even journalists with valid curfew passes have also been attacked. On June 28, 2010 a group of journalists belonging to local and national media organizations were attacked by the CRPF in the Qamarwari area of Srinagar.
Yet again, the recent events highlight the impunity with which the security forces in the region continue to operate. One of the emblematic cases that highlight the legal impunity is that of the enforced disappearance and murder of noted human rights activist, Jalil Andrabi by the Rashtriya Rifle, an army unit deployed in the Valley. In March 1996, Andrabi was illegally detained by security force personnel while returning from work. Three weeks later his mutilated body was found on the banks of the River Jhelum. International and national pressure culminated in the filing of a charge sheet by the police against the five accused in the Sessions Court, Budgam. However, the main accused in the Andrabi murder, Major Avatar Singh remains free to this day. The case of Jalil Andrabi is merely one example of the ongoing human rights violations. Many local and international human rights organizations, including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and Physicians for Human Rights have documented the systematic violations of human rights by state and non-state actors and the entrenched culture of impunity.
The promulgation of special laws in the state of Jammu and Kashmir provides legal immunity to the armed forces. Under the Armed Forces Special (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act, 1990, armed forces personnel of the rank of a commissioned officer, warrant officer, non commissioned officer or of an equivalent rank have been granted extraordinary powers such as the authority to shoot and kill suspected lawbreakers. Further, the Act in requiring prior sanction for prosecution acts as shield for impunity for the non-prosecution of security force personnel involved in egregious human rights violations, including enforced disappearances and torture. Thus far, sanction for prosecution has been granted only in a handful of cases, and perpetrators remain free. Therefore, in the least the procedure for granting sanction for prosecution should be at least be made more expeditious, effective, and equitable.
In this context it is even more necessary to seek accountability of the actions of the security forces in the region. Under applicable national and international law, the killing of children and attacks against hospital and medical infrastructure is strictly prohibited.
In fact, in its Eleventh Plan, the Planning Commission of India outlined special measures for women in from conflict zones within India, which would imply that there are conflict zones within India. The ongoing situation so far mentioned is in contravention of International law, humanitarian law as well as fundamental guarantees provided by the Indian Constitution, including the right to life (Article 21). As concerns the former, we seek to bring to you attention principles enshrined in Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions; the International Covenants for Civil and Political Rights, 1976, and the Additional Protocols thereto; the Convention of the Rights of the Child, 1990 and its Optional Protocol; and the UN Security Council Resolution 1882 (2009) on the protection of children.
Regarding constitutional and national laws and adjudicatory policies, we may here refer to the following:
* The guidelines prescribed by the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) on police action (of 12 May 2010) and in the police manual should be respected
* The Supreme Court decisions in D.K. Basu v. State of West Bengal (AIR 1997 SC 610) and Rajesh Gulate v. Government of Delhi (SCC 7 2002 129)
*The Supreme Court of India guidelines to check arbitrary police action and ensure punishment of perpetrators.
Given the use of unprecedented force, we urge that the security forces exercise restraint and refrain from firing at unarmed protestors. The Central and state governments must ensure that arbitrary and disproportionate use of force against civilians ends immediately and an impartial investigation is initiated into the killing of civilians. We urge the Government of India and the Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, Shri Omar Abdullah to take immediate steps to:
• Put an immediate end to the violence perpetrated by the security forces
• Prevent attacks against civilian infrastructure, including hospitals and ambulances
• Ensure that the security forces respect the principle of proportionality while responding to civilian protests
• Initiate an independent and impartial investigation into the killings of peaceful protestors, several of whom were children
• Initiate an inquiry into instances of attacks on ambulance services
• Ensure that inquiries are conducted in a time bound manner and the report is made public
• Initiate legal and punitive action against persons who are found responsible for the killings of civilians
• Establish an independent inquiry commission to investigate the allegations of serious human rights violations, including enforced disappearances, killings, torture, rape and sexual violence in the region
• Invite and permit the relevant UN Rapporteurs, UN Special Representatives and members of the UN Working Group on Enforced Disappearance to investigate the allegations of human rights abuses in the region
• Initiate a general debate involving members of the Kashmiri civil society and others on impunity and AFSPA, and possible mechanisms to respond to the prevailing impunity

Constitutionally Yours,

List of signatories
1. Professor Upendra Baxi, Emeritus Professor of Law, University of Delhi
2. Dr Mallika V. Sarabhhai
3. Mrinalini V. Sarabhai
4. Navsharan Singh
5. Bhagat Oinam, Jawahar Lal Nehru University
6. Alternative Law Forum
7. The Patna Collective
8. Uma Chakravarti, Historian
9. Anuradha Bhasin, Kashmir Times
10. Prabodh Jamwal, Kashmir Times
11. Laxmi Murthy, Consulting Editor, Himal SouthAsia
12. Sahba Hussain
13. Shahrukh Alam
14. Trideep Pais, Advocate
15. Tenzing Choesang, Advocate
16. Tahseen Alam
17. Anouhita Majumdar, Senior Journalist
18. Anant Nath, The Caravan
19. Vasuman Khandelwal, Advocate
20. Bipin Aspatwar, Advocate
21. Shabnam Hashmi, Anhad
22. Ashok Agrwaal, Advocate
23. Prof. Sitaram Kakarala, CSCS
24. Ved Bhasin, Chairman Kashmir Times group of publications
25. Rajeev Dhavan
26. Kanak Mani Dixit, Himal South Asia
27. Professor Sushil Khanna, Indian Institute of Management, Kolkata
28. Rajashri Dasgupta, Journalist
29. Ram Puniyani, All India Secular Forum
30. Jashodhara Dasgupta, SAHAYOG, Lucknow
31. Warisha Farasat, Advocate
32. Jyoti Punwani, Journalist, Mumbai
33. K. Lalitha, Researcher, Hyderabad
34. Nitya Vasudevan, Research Scholar
35. Randhir Singh, Professor (retd.), Delhi University
36. Priyaleen Singh
37. Abid Mir
38. Areet Kaur
39. Anand Bala
40. Shahla Raza
41. Hafeez Khan
42. Paray Hilal
43. Dr. Pritam Singh
44. Dr. Meena Dhandha, Philospher
45. Dinesh Sharma, Bangalore
46. Dr Atul Sood, Jawaharlal University
47. Gursharan Singh, Convenor against Democratic Front Against Operation Green Hunt
48. Chakraverti Mahajan, Doctoral Student, Punjab University
49. Kavita Pai
50. Sheba George, Sahrwaru
51. Prof. Ranabir Samaddar, Director, Mahanirban Calcutta Research Group
52. .Rita Manchanda, Safhr
53. Zakia Jowher, Action Aid
54. Roop Rekha Verma
55. Pushkar Raj, General Secretary PUCL
56. Binu Mathews,Editor, Counter Currents
57. Indian Social Action Forum (INSAF)
58. Dr. Kaveri Rajaraman
59. Partho Sarathi Ray, Sanhati
60. Pyare Shivpuri
61. Humra Quraishi, Freelance columnist
62. Haley Duschinski, Assistant Professor of Anthropology, Department of Sociology and Anthropology, Ohio University
63. Sahana Basavapatna, Advocate
64. Sukla Sen, EKTA (Committee for Communal Amity), Mumbai
65. Zainab Bawa, Ph.D. student and independent researcher
66. Chetna Kaul, filmmaker
67. Manish Kumar Tipu, music composer
68. Javed Naqi, Senior Research Fellow, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi
69. PUCL (Andhra Pradesh)
70. Harsh Kapoor, South Asia Citizens Web
71. Naga People's Movement for Human Rights (NPMHR)
72. Badri Raina
73. Manasi Pingle, Filmmaker
74. Pushpa Achanta (Independent writer, Bangalore)
75. Navaid Hamid, Member National Integration Council
76. Aamir Bashir, Actor and film-maker
77. Dipti Gupta, Professor, Media Studies.
78. Santanu Chakraborty (Student - Christ University)
79. Madhuri, Jagrit Adivasi Dalit Sangathan, Madhya Pradesh
80. Rosemary Dzuvichu, Nagaland University,Kohima
81. Vidyarthi Yuvjan Sabha
82. Uma V Chandru, Peace and Human Rights Activist, Bangalore
83. Advocate Narjees, Human Rights Law Network, Kashmir unit
84. AIPWA
85. Shoma, CAVOW
86. Geeta Charusivam, Social Activist Tamil Nadu
87. Arati Chokshi, Member – PUCL (Bangalore- Karnataka)
88. Dr Ritu Dewan, Professor, University of Mumbai
89. Dr Lena Ganesh, Mumbai
90. Pooja Sharma, cinematographer
91. Sajid Iqbal Khandey
92. Vrijendra
93. Sundera Babu
94. Aamer Trambu, Reporter, Press TV Iran
95. Saamer Mansoor, Student, University of Texas, Dallas
96. Nashwa Mansoor, Student of Medicine, Sangli
97. Dr Ben Rogaly, University Lecturer, UK
98. Meher Engineer, Teachers & Scientists Against Maldevelopment
99. Asish Gupta, Journalist, New Delhi
100. Ashok Choudhary, National Forum of Forest People and Forest Workers (NFFPFW)
101. Madhu Bhaduri, Ambassador of India (Retd)
102. Bipin Kumar, AHUTTI, Patna
103. Women Against Militarization and State Violence
104. The Other Media
105. Subir Banerjee, Distinguished Professor Emeritus, University of Minnesota
106. Ram Bhat, Maraa, Bangalore
107. J. Devika, Associate Professor, CDS, Trivandrum, Kerala
108. Priya Jain
109. Jawed Naqvi, journalist
110) Gautam Navlakha
111) Harsh Mander
112) Sukhman Dhami, ENSAAF
113) Kannan Srinivasan
114) Prof. Nandini Sundar, Delhi University
115) Dr Usha Zacharias, Associate Professor, Westfield State College,
Massachusetts, USA
116) Feroze Mithiborwala, Bharat Bachao Andolan, National President
117) Anand Chakerverti
118) Shafat N Ahmed
119) Gagan Rism
120) Kabir Arora
121) Gazala Raza
122) Neelakshi Suryanarayan

 

[Patriot]

Slogan of Indian Armed Forces stationed in Kashmir​

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations
It's our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."


- Indian Armed Forces

yeah here are some arranged meetings
Two Indian soldiers killed on volatile Kashmir border - Monsters and Critics
Army colonel killed in encounter in North Kashmir - dnaindia.com
Army major, soldier killed in Kashmir gunfight-Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times
Indian soldier killed by Kashmir gunfire | Asian Correspondent
BBC News - India army officer killed in Kashmir clash

India soldier killed in Kashmir grenade blast - Worldnews.com
plenty of meetings arranged no?

 

[nForce]

yeah here are some arranged meetings
Two Indian soldiers killed on volatile Kashmir border - Monsters and Critics
Army colonel killed in encounter in North Kashmir - dnaindia.com
Army major, soldier killed in Kashmir gunfight-Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times
Indian soldier killed by Kashmir gunfire | Asian Correspondent
BBC News - India army officer killed in Kashmir clash

India soldier killed in Kashmir grenade blast - Worldnews.com
plenty of meetings arranged no?

I can very well see that you take certain amount of pleasure in the news of Indian security personnel killed in action.I can retort back by posting some news about scores of Pakistani security personnel killed in action during counter terrorist operations in FATA,but I never will.It is so because, my morality is not as degraded as yours.I know the cause for which they died.Thats the difference between you and me.
Bloody hell,Pakistani Army even refused to accept the bodies of their fallen officers of Northern Light Infantry after the Kargil War.Now thats a difference between the modus operandi of Armed forces of your country and mine.

Pakistan refuses to take even officers' bodies

 

[indushek]

Indian members whatever u say our neighbours will never agree because they have been indoctrinated well and only if India dishes out kashmir to them will they be silent (for now) . After that they will have concern for other "brothers" in UP or Bihar or other places and then they begin to ask for their freedom. I know thats what will be happening, the reason for this as posted by senior members 100's of times "There was no India before and there should not be in future".

 

[ice_man]

Indian members whatever u say our neighbours will never agree because they have been indoctrinated well and only if India dishes out kashmir to them will they be silent (for now) . After that they will have concern for other "brothers" in UP or Bihar or other places and then they begin to ask for their freedom. I know thats what will be happening, the reason for this as posted by senior members 100's of times "There was no India before and there should not be in future".

thank you clearer shows who is "INDOCTRINATED" you sound like bharat verma! you should try applying for a job in NDTV

 

[Dr.Evil]

Then buddy boy what are you doing on PDF, You should also mind your own business! as telling Pakistanis. lmao you guys are just nothing but so called mature people but in reality you are just 5 year old. This is my candy no its mine! This is a think tank forum we talk about stuff and it has nothing to do what i should care or you should care. Act mature please

What do you mean Act Mature - Is it another word for accept the definition we give and everyone has to accept it. - Brilliant.

Now coming to the topic - Weren't pakistani's telling Indians not to comment about the discrimnation of Hindus in Pakistan.
Weren't pakistani's telling Indians not to comments about the Killings in balochistan by pak army and PAF.

Have atleast the same set of standards for everyone before you start commenting about others.

 

[prototype]

NDTV sux

from when,when they shown some videos which is a classic example of bastards working for bastards to create tensions

 

[Icarus]

Indian members whatever u say our neighbours will never agree because they have been indoctrinated well and only if India dishes out kashmir to them will they be silent (for now) . After that they will have concern for other "brothers" in UP or Bihar or other places and then they begin to ask for their freedom. I know thats what will be happening, the reason for this as posted by senior members 100's of times "There was no India before and there should not be in future".

Indoctrinated ? Son, what have been watching ? You desperately need to lay off India TV, I wasn't sent to one of those Propaganda, Brainwashing schools you guys believe it is mandatory for all Pakistanis to send their children to.................And if we wanted land, we would have also kept the cry for Junagarh and Hyderabad alive, they also wanted to join Pakistan but India surrounded both states, imposed a complete lock down and those people had to accede to India not because of nationalist feeling but because of hunger...........

 

[Ammyy]

Indoctrinated ? Son, what have been watching ? You desperately need to lay off India TV, I wasn't sent to one of those Propaganda, Brainwashing schools you guys believe it is mandatory for all Pakistanis to send their children to.................And if we wanted land, we would have also kept the cry for Junagarh and Hyderabad alive, they also wanted to join Pakistan but India surrounded both states, imposed a complete lock down and those people had to accede to India not because of nationalist feeling but because of hunger...........