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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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I will tell u why, though I m not sure about the numbers but I am sure some of the families/youth from Indian Kashmir have migrated to P-O-K for the search of 'AZAD KASHMIR' which the never found. Even recently many youth who migrated want to come back to this side and GOI is mulling on an amnesty scheme as well.

Kashmiris wanting to return from *** welcome: Centre

Actually that was just for Freedom Fighters I believe. Most of these stories are written by Indian Media so they will be bias. I am sure some Freedom Fighters wish to go home to their families but many may not.
 
I heard the same from my Kashmiri classmates in Delhi. They dont consider Mirpuris and other folks beyond the LOC as Kashmiris as they hardly speak the language. No offense but in fact they were joking about about how UK based Mirpuris proudly call themselves Kashmiris but are hardly so. Could be just a couple of folks' opinion but thats what they told me.

There were 40% kashmiris in my previous school, they always communicate withe each other in Kashmiri, dont know what your folks told u
 
I am a kashmiri, but not by birth. I have not been to pakistan in over 10 years though, so i remember it as it was then, seems like a lot has changed.
 
Kasheer Bolan tu? Fair amount of Kashmir is ethnic kasheer in Pakistan so please don't speak when you have no knowledge in the matter as for India apart from the Valley the rest comprimises heavily of non-ethnic Kashmiri communities and even Kasheer ppl there have problems with it as they try to assert Indian culture and language on them, words echoed by my own Kashmiri friends and family who reside their. Eastern muzaffarbad, Neelam Valley, Gilgit & Baltistan and parts of Hunza, Ishkoman and even Swat have very large communities of kasheer and you'll see people dressed in their own cultural attire.

Most Kashmiris on the Indian side feel Pakistani, i have met a decent amount of Kashmiri and most feel they have nothing in common with Indians infact many have shown a deep hatred for anything Indian. Some of my own family who are born in Srinigar in a place called Nowhatta love Pakistan with a passion but don't want to leave their ancestoral home and although they have a great resentment for India and Indians in general most love the muslims that reside in that country extremely passionately.

Kashmir Valley is always a part of our wataan and Pakistan is always a part of the Kashmiri Valley.

Mirpuris and Punchhis are what they are i.e Mirpuri and Punchhi NOT KASHMIRI .
The language , food , dress all are different , DIFFERENT .
So dont claim what is not your heritage . Leave it for the Kashmris of the valley and Doda Kishtwar .
The Kashmiri speaking migrants who have migrated to Pak during partition and later since the insurgency ( only a trickle ) can claim to be Kashmiri not the Mirpuris and Punchhis . Same can be said of the Kashmiri descendants of families who moved to Punjab during British Raj although they dont retain the language anymore and speak Punjabi .
The people in Gilgit-Baltistan have different languages though they are more ethnically and linguistically closer to Kashmiris than Mirpuris and Punchhis !
Only Neelum Valley exactly oppposite Kupwara can be said to have people of Kashmiri extraction :argh:

Yes KASHMIRIS have 'nothing' in common with different 'Indian' ethnicities just like there is nothing common between a Punjabi or Sindhi or Pashtun or Baloch with The Kashmiri !
Language , Cuisine , Dress , Customs NOTHING . Though a late Sindhi ex-foreign minister had claimed at UN that Kashmir is more a PART OF PAK than it can ever be a part of INDIA .

Besides , Kashmiris have harboured seperatist tendencies since the partition is well known to you and us . Irrespective of what you claim , the moment Kashmiris step out of the valley in search of better oppurtunities , education , work they get to see and mix with 'Indians' . Plenty of them in Pune , Mumbai , Hyderabad and Delhi being treated as equal as ANY INDIAN WILL TREAT A FELLOW INDIAN .
The 'Indian' muslims have never had a soft corner for the Kashmiri seperatist tendencies neither they have any special sense of affinity towards the Kashmiri community so go and sell your peanuts elsewhere or come to Pune during september once the universities there begin with their Fall Semester and count the Kashmiri students living in absolute freedom with a dream of better future in India .
 
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There were 40% kashmiris in my previous school, they always communicate withe each other in Kashmiri, dont know what your folks told u

I mentioned what they told me. And to your point, what seems Kashmiri to an outsider may not be pure kashmiri or be a mixture. Somebody like u and me (assuming you are a non-Kashmiri) wouldn't know the difference.
 
An unequal relationship
AJK and Pakistan’s security doctrine
ImtiazGul.Com


Recently, a former Musharraf aide admitted that incessant US pressure resulted in a scaling down of cross-border Jihadi operations and militants were told to refrain from violating the Line of Control because of unusual US satellite surveillance

By Imtiaz Gul

Friday Times May 14, 2010

On May 10, RajaFarooq Haider Khan, Prime Minister Azad Jammu and Kashmir, wriggled out of his commitment to chair a seminar. The seminar was convened to discuss the veracity of the claims by the former foreign minister Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri in 2007, that by March 2007, a compromise on Kashmir was around the corner. Barrister A. Majid Tramboo, Kashmir Centre Brussels and Prof Nazeer Shaal were among the participants. Almost two dozen coordination phone calls and physical checks of the venue had preceded the event. At one stage Khan’s personal staff conveyed that the premier would be there within ten minutes. But those ten minutes turned into an eternity.

As it turned out later, the AJK Prime Minister skipped the event because Pakistan’s Chief Secretary for Kashmir – who is as dreaded by the Kashmir government as probably the COAS is by the armed forces – had showed up for a meeting.

This small anecdote explains the volatility of the independent state called AJK. This also sheds light on how Kashmiri leaders are at the mercy of the Pakistani authorities, illustrated by the government’s direct meddling in AJK’s recent judicial crisis.

Perhaps Raja Farooq Haider Khan may have been absent at the Kashmir seminar also because most of the participants attending the event, including representatives of different factions of the All Hurriyat Party Congress (APHC) as well as those from Kashmir Centre Brussels, are considered extensions of the national security establishment. Kashmir observers say that various Kashmir-related organizations based in various parts of Europe and North America liaise with the Pakistani authorities for guidance and coordination.

Did the AJK Prime Minister then attempt to stay away from a meeting packed with what he thought was a pro-establishment crowd? Probably not. Even premier Khan and his party – the Muslim Conference – had been an important element in Pakistan’s war for Kashmir, maintaining close contacts with the security establishment, as close as the links between the security establishment and some sixteen Kashmir-focused militant organizations that used to work under the United Jihad Council (UJC).

The relationship between the security establishment and the UJC permitted the UJC to maintain offices and camps not only in Kashmir but also elsewhere. Lashkar-e-Taiba was not part of the UJC, but it coordinated with the Council on matters of political policy. In fact, Washington and New Delhi claim Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the successor of the LeT that was banned on 12 January 2002, and Jaish-e-Mohammad act as the first line of defence for Pakistan’s security apparatus. Many US and British publications report that over 1500 religious seminaries and mosques are being run by these two Kashmir-focused organizations across Pakistan. Kashmir’s future – the fight for self-determination – provides these organizations with a cover that is hard to remove. These outfits illustrate the model of cost-effective militant activity for a specific purpose. This military-militant nexus peaked in the 1990s but has shrunk considerably after General Musharraf’s assurances to Richard Armitage, the US Secretary of State from 2001 to 2005, to ban the proliferation of militant camps.

Recently, a former Musharraf aide admitted that incessant US pressure resulted in a scaling down of cross-border Jihadi operations and militants were told to refrain from violating the Line of Control because of unusual US satellite surveillance. Yet the security establishment kept “managing” some of the groups because “they were human beings and could not be dumped overnight”.

Popular rhetoric and lobbying by Hafiz Saeed and Jamaat-ud-Dawa on Pakistan’s water and current trans-border issues, comes across more as a ploy that suits the hawks within Pakistan. This particularly appeases those who believe the Kashmir issue is related to water and not territory. Increasingly, the policy of using Jihadi outfits to implement this tactical approach – rooted in the desire to deliver a thousands cuts to India – has boomeranged and resulted in monumental strategic losses to Pakistan and bled it profusely. This warrants a total but gradual divorce from the establishment’s doctrine of a cost-effective way of holding India back.

This approach in the current international context and in view of Pakistan’s ever-growing economic problems has outlived its utility and has compounded political and economic problems for the country. The sooner the better, as international tolerance for such adventures is waning.

(The author heads the independent Centre for Research and Security Studies, Islamabad.)

Email: imtiaz@crss.pk
 
Not really, I support a pleblisticite in Kashmir currently (Under UN observation) but that will not happen. And we cannot stand by and let atrocities happen so we resist and then when we have resisted pleblicite should be held with all options including free kashmir.

You want UN plebiscite... good.. I am ready but before that few questions for you:-

1) Do you want Gilgit-Baltistan area into this? Pakistan consider this is their state while maps of 1947 shows part of J&K and were under rule of Raja Hari Singh.

2) Do you want to include or exclude people who have migrated to respective side of Kashmir? India is having specific articles so other state's people can't buy land there while there is no such rule from Pak side hence many punjabis are there in their side.

3) What about Kashmiri Pundits who are forced to migrate to other states of India. Do you want to call them for plebiscite?

4) Will you consider J&K Sikhs, Pandits, Lamas (from Laddakh area) or just Kashmiri Muslims (I hear only this word in this forum)?

5) Are you going to ask UN to intervene and ask China to release captured area of J&K (and gifted area by Pak to China in Karakoram range) so we can have plebiscite there as well?

If you are ready for same.. I am ready as well...
 
Democratic thinking is to keep nation intact not punched out. Although I strongly oppose any anti Pakistan movement in Baluchistan. But I would like to know if you can say same about them, just in case.

I have read his previous posts as well so don't try to tell me that I am mucking around here like a headless chicken.
I am not forcing I am telling the truth.Time may have made AJK Kashmiris more near to Pakistan but being an Indian i have all the right to keep the ball at your court, you know what i mean? (I am an honest man;)).

There is a contradictions with his statement and poor understanding of the deep seated dispute. AJK is Pakistani invention and he has no cure but to endure that without a flag and identity. What i am giving him back is his lost a real identity of an Indian.

Furthermore what will happen when this issue will be resolved and his dependency on both of the nations is what I am trying to mention.
Regards.

why the hell he should be indian or accept india as his beloved homeland??? just because you want it to be like that.... please you are indian so you have the right to defend your country but you have no right to force someone to accept whats your belief is... If kashmiris love pakistan and want to be with pakistan then IF india beleives in democratic and human rights , India should let them live their lifes according to their wishes....
 
You want UN plebiscite... good.. I am ready but before that few questions for you:-

1) Do you want Gilgit-Baltistan area into this? Pakistan consider this is their state while maps of 1947 shows part of J&K and were under rule of Raja Hari Singh.

Well what ever the UN say thats what we will do.....if that includes having a vote in Gilgit-Baltistan,then yes.

2) Do you want to include or exclude people who have migrated to respective side of Kashmir? India is having specific articles so other state's people can't buy land there while there is no such rule from Pak side hence many punjabis are there in their side.

This point must have been answered a thousand times........We have the same rules in AJK,no non kashmiri can buy land there or become a citizen.So this fantasy that you indians keep pulling out that AJK is flooded with punjabis and that they are taking over is nothing more then a massive lie.
Bring every kashmiri refugee back including all those in pakistan and india and let them vote......we have no problem with that.



3) What about Kashmiri Pundits who are forced to migrate to other states of India. Do you want to call them for plebiscite?

Yes!.......and we also want the kashmiri muslims who where forced out of kashmir also to be involved in the plebiscite.

4) Will you consider J&K Sikhs, Pandits, Lamas (from Laddakh area) or just Kashmiri Muslims (I hear only this word in this forum)?

When has anybody said they want only muslims to be involved in the plebiscite?.......All kashmiris,sikhs,hindus ect will be involved in the vote.
I dont why you indians keep thinking we want no non muslims to be involved in the kashmir vote.

5) Are you going to ask UN to intervene and ask China to release captured area of J&K (and gifted area by Pak to China in Karakoram range) so we can have plebiscite there as well?

No problem......just as long you indians dont mind the chinese being involved also then in the kashmir dispute and having a say on the outcome.......PS under the agreement with china they gifted a larger part of kashmir to us and not the other way round.

If you are ready for same.. I am ready as well...

Well all your questions have been answered and the indian media myths broken that pakistan only wants the kashmiris muslims to be involved.
 
I am shocked at you call it a tour, you can see that most of the time when I say terrorists I do put in brackets that you call them freedom fighters. I wish you could be as civil as I am.

I apologise if you think i am not being civil.......i dont mind if you dont bracket terrorist becauce thats what i expect you to call the freedom fighters......terrorist-jihadis-militants-rebels-ultras ect.
Just as long we dont start insulting name calling.
I might not like it when you call the freedom fighters a terrrorist but i accept it.


Atleast do not call it as tours, atleast not when you are replying to an Indian.

What do you want me to call it....a mission?


The way their family is taken care is not mentioned by Pakistan at all. Did they get awards, quotas by your government, pension for the family etc...

Pakistan does not say in public that it supports the freedom fighters so why are they going publish awards and quotas?
I dont know about medals but money-food ect is given.
The freedom fighters that were told to stop the fight during musharaffs term where all given jobs in the road construction companies in AJK.
My cousin was a guide to the freedom fighters who stopped all activity during mushy term is given a pension-money every month by his tanzeem.
My childhood friend was martyred in kashmir and he has a road named after him and his family is given food every month by his tanzeem.
These are just personal examples........all support goes through the army into the tanzeems who then carry out the activity.
 
Mirpuris are not kashmiris:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Do you guys know how many kashmiris refugees live in mirpur?
 
I apologise if you think i am not being civil.......i dont mind if you dont bracket terrorist becauce thats what i expect you to call the freedom fighters......terrorist-jihadis-militants-rebels-ultras ect.
Just as long we dont start insulting name calling.
I might not like it when you call the freedom fighters a terrrorist but i accept it.




What do you want me to call it....a mission?




Pakistan does not say in public that it supports the freedom fighters so why are they going publish awards and quotas?
I dont know about medals but money-food ect is given.
The freedom fighters that were told to stop the fight during musharaffs term where all given jobs in the road construction companies in AJK.
My cousin was a guide to the freedom fighters who stopped all activity during mushy term is given a pension-money every month by his tanzeem.
My childhood friend was martyred in kashmir and he has a road named after him and his family is given food every month by his tanzeem.
These are just personal examples........all support goes through the army into the tanzeems who then carry out the activity.

Okay fine... mainly I wanted to know the point of view of a person from Pakistan, without bringing in reason for war/conflict etc... I don't assert for source anymore...

I only wish the bolded part happens always... And if there was a situation because of which the insurgents or the so called freedom fighters were told to do some productive work, then let us hope that the same situation comes back forever...

And nobody from eiether side has to die and no development has to stop in eiether side of Kashmir... (because continuing this as far I see there will be no results at all (our side of Kashmir being with us, and your side of Kashmir being with you), our side sits a huge trained army and your side is sending some very less number of proxies, and this will continue forever if this is let to happen as it is now)...


it was a good discussion with you thanks...
 
Love to go....u are certainly welcome......come and join them....dont just blast in front of PC.....

Sure...i will or maybe join army or rangers? all depends the main aims is only one...
 
Sure...i will or maybe join army or rangers? all depends the main aims is only one...

oh you wanted to be a freedom fighter....a mujahid in kashmir for "Jihad".......but now rangers or Army
seems like you want to fight in swat......

OR other point of view is that you just confirmed that PAK army is directly involved in sending/disguising as terrorists.....I claim India is making for last 50 years......
 
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