Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[prithwidw]

No, but you did ask.

Yes we did. Because we feel for our innocent citizens who are killed by Pakistan sponsored terrorism.

Didn't you ask Pakistan's help after 9/11?
And what have you got till now?

I can see that India all-too-often wants to play the game of standing on its strength, rather than being a good neighbor.

Solomon, I admit India's foreign Policies are full of mistakes, but US of A's are not rosy either.

We have always been a good neighbour, can you explain what you mean?

Until India modifies that somewhat, prospects for peace and prosperity with Pakistan - no matter how welcoming a GoP may be - can't proceed very far, I guess.

Bah! When US forces Pakistan to act against terrorists, it is wise. When India requests Pakistan to act, it is bossy.

You are being one-sided here. Stop this crap.

 

[Solomon2]

Yes we did. Because we feel for our innocent citizens who are killed by Pakistan sponsored terrorism. Didn't you ask Pakistan's help after 9/11? And what have you got till now?...Bah! When US forces Pakistan to act against terrorists, it is wise. When India requests Pakistan to act, it is bossy.

O.K., it was time, a change of government, and constant persuasion that finally resulted in a change in attitude by the GoP for anti-terror events to move forward.

India isn't being particularly persuasive just now, right? That's a necessary element.

We have always been a good neighbour, can you explain what you mean?

Indira threatened to eat up Pakistan entirely back in 1971. Not the act of a good neighbor, was it? Nor was India's development of nuclear weapons, for that matter.

You are being one-sided here. Stop this crap.

That's because the Pakistanis have made themselves scarce...

 

[Jackdaws]

Solomon,

An American preaching about good neighborly relations and non development of nuclear weapons is the equivalent of a whore singing paeans to the virtues of virginity. Please spare us the sermon and the patronization.

As Churchill said, "You can count on the Americans doing the right thing....only after they have exhausted all the other alternatives." You can call the Pakistanis and Saudis your allies for now - but tell me the same thing after another 9/11 like attack happens on the US. If and when it happens, the Pakistanis are toast.

 

[Solomon2]

An American preaching about good neighborly relations and non development of nuclear weapons is the equivalent of a whore singing paeans to the virtues of virginity.

I don't recall the last time terror arrived with a Canadian or Mexican return address. It has been nearly a century since we had a conflict with Mexico, the Canadian border is open and unpatrolled, we've successfully and peacefully shared the Great Lakes to mutual profit for two hundred years, and through NATO the Canadians and we are allies.

As for armed intervention elsewhere in the New World in the past century, you should ask the citizens - and former citizens - of Cuba, Haiti, Grenada, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Mexico, Columbia, Panama, etc. whether it was desirable or not; the range of answers may surprise you.

In short, maybe India can learn something from America.

 

[Treatment]

JUD as said is a charity and it should actively facilitate talks between india and pakistan

 

[Hutchroy]

AJK may not allow WAPDA to fill Mangla Dam

AJK may not allow WAPDA to fill Mangla Dam

Provinces oppose allocating water to dam affectees; AJK PM says “we are not asking for water from Arabian Sea"

MIRPUR (AJK): The Government of Azad Jammu and Kashmir has decided not to allow Water and Power Development Authority to fill Mangla Dam up to its new capacity until the issues related to the relocation of affected persons and allocation of water are not resolved

Government of Pakistan’s reluctance to allocate 614 cusecs of water from Mangla Dam to the AJK may put off raising the water level in the dam next summer causing annual loss of Rs18 billion to WAPDA..

The delay in rehabilitation of persons affected by the Mangla Dam raising project is already increasing mistrust between the affectees and Government of Pakistan.

The Government of Pakistan is dilly-dallying on the allocation of drinking and irrigation water for areas developed for the people evicted from their ancestral homes to accommodate the increase in Mangla Dam capacity not for the AJK but for enhancing water and power supply to Pakistan.

As such, the provincial governments of Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP opposed the demand for water for the dam affectees.

The Government of AJK in the face of mounting pressure from dam affectees of Mirpur have decided not to allow WAPDA to fill the dam till the resolution of all pending issues including water allocation which may cause losses of billions of rupees to WAPDA. The AJK government is of the view that;

1. They signed an agreement with the Government of Pakistan, but after completion of the dam raising, it is complicating the issue by dragging provinces into this matter, which is creating mistrust and unrest among people of Mirpur who have rendered tremendous sacrifices twice during the last 38 years.

2. IRSA has no jurisdiction over AJK and therefore cannot decide their water rights.

3. The opposition of Sindh and Balochistan is a great surprise to the AJK. Prime Minister of AJK has said, “water is not coming from the Arabian Sea and flowing towards AJK whereby we needed permission from Sindh and Balochistan to use this water, rather it is the other way round and the AJK being upper riparian has prior rights under all international water conventions and laws to make judicious use of this water within their own territory.”

4. The growing mistrust in the AJK may hamper the efforts of Pakistan to bring cheaper energy to its national grid under the prevailing energy crisis through hydroelectric projects underway in the AJK including 969 MW Neelum-Jhelum followed by 1,100 MW Kohala, 700 MW Mahel, 800 MW Karot, 600 MW Azad Pattan, 180 MW Gulpur and 135 MW Kotli along with so many other medium-sized hydroelectric projects under different phases in the AJK. The growing mistrust for a meagre quantity of 613 cusecs of water needs to be addressed immediately so that further mega projects could be built to bring Pakistan out of the present energy crisis and ensure further water storage to take the country out of extreme shortage.

Relocating thousands of people who were evicted from their ancestral homes after their areas were earmarked to come under new boundaries of the Mangla Dam reservoir has become a serious issue.

President of Pakistan Asif Ali Zardari cancelled his visit to Mirpur in January to inaugurate recently completed Mangla Dam Raising Project by WAPDA to avoid public pressure on rehabilitation issues.

The Mangla Dam was initially constructed in 1967. More than 300,000 people from Mirpur were forced to give up their land, properties and graveyards of their ancestors to keep Pakistan green and illuminated. The Kashmiris claim it a glaring example of sacrifice for a greater national cause.

The affectees were relocated in New Mirpur town and they were promised water for drinking and irrigation, although this right was already accepted in 1904 under the Darbar Agreement between Darbar of Maharaja’s Government of Jammu & Kashmir and the Government of Punjab.

For more than 100 years, the people of Mirpur were denied this right in complete disregard to all agreements, promises and sacrifices.

In 2002, the Pakistani government decided to raise Mangla Dam to increase water storage capacity and generate additional electricity. The project required displacement of another 80,000 people from Mirpur.

An agreement to this effect was signed between Pakistan and the AJK in 2003, under which GOP yet again promised drinking and irrigation water for twice affectees of Mangla Dam and to irrigate their small land located in the downstream of Mangla Dam in Mirpur and Bhimber.

A technical committee headed by NESPAK Consultant and comprising of Ministry of KA&NA, Water and Power and representatives from Govt. of AJ&K was set up to assess AJK water which came up with unanimous recommendations for 613.6 Cusecs from Mangla dam and Upper Jehlum Canal (UJC).

The report of the Committee was forwarded to IRSA who conveyed their decision that AJ&K not being a part of IRSA cannot be accommodated for any water allocation under Water Apportioned Accord 1991.

Thereafter, the case was submitted to the Prime Minister for issuance of executive Order but the PM referred the matter to Inter Provincial Coordination Ministry. Subsequently in the IPC meeting in February 2009 governments of Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP opposed allocation of water to AJ&K under Mangla Dam raising agreement. Only Punjab supported water rights of AJK. The matter was once again referred to the prime Minister. This time round, the Cabinet Division opposed allocation of Water to AJ&K and advised PM to refer this matter to the provinces for their consent.

 

[Patriot]

I support AJK on this.AJK people are far more patriotic then then arrogant Sindhis, Punjabis and Pathans.

 

[dabong1]

Our PM is so cheap........he could have asked more stuff like cheaper or free electric and maybe a joint mirpur-jehlum airport.

 

[Adwitiya]

Nice move by AJK

 

[PAFAce]

Q - What do you mean by Azadi (freedom) I asked him?
1. “We don’t want the Indian army here”.
2. “We want India to be out of Kashmir. We don’t want to be part of India.”
3. “We will have azadi (freedom) from India and run our own government, or join Pakistan”, he said.

What's so difficult to understand about this? The people of the Valley of Kashmir are pretty much unanimous in their demand to separate from the rest of India, and yet you complain about "confusion". Read the above lines; is the message not clear enough to you? The meaning of "Azadi" for Kashmiris today is still what it was in 1947, because for them this is the same fight. Condition 3. (merger with Pakistan or an independent state) are only possible if the first two conditions are satisfied. That is where the efforts are being concentrated, and that is something that some Kashmiris and Pakistanis believe can only be achieved through militancy. I hope they are wrong, but 4 decades of peaceful struggle didn't get them anywhere, did it?

If ultimate aim of some Muslims of the Valley of Kashmir is to join Pakistan then that could be called accession and not azadi or freedom.[/B] Perhaps these people don’t know that the people of Pakistan are also in search of freedom since 1947, and they haven’t seen that yet; and in frustration they are looking for alternatives and some are clearly talking of breaking away from Pakistan.

Amazing. What an unwarranted and ill-researched statement. "Pakistanis want to break away from Pakistan". You conveniently forgot all the secessionist movements inside India, or the nationalist movements inside pretty much any other developing country in the World. I really don't see how this is relevant to Kashmir.

Needless to say, if we were to ask Mr. Yasin Malik his opinions, they would differ quite a bit.

If we want peace and stability in South Asia then we need to resolve the Kashmir dispute; and we cannot resolve the Kashmir dispute by making it a Muslim problem or a problem of water and resources. It is deeply disturbing that despite enormous sacrifices by the people of Jammu and Kashmir the Kashmir dispute is still perceived as a dispute which has to be resolved by the governments of India and Pakistan.

Pakistan has repeatedly said that the issue must be resolved along with the people of Kashmir. They must be considered a third-party in the negotiations, and should not be forced to sit out every time. At the very least, the issue must be resolved to their satisfaction. The other side is bent on denying them this. We have seen Indian members repeatedly claim that Kashmir must not be allowed a say in the matter.

When I try to raise this point, I'm mobbed by trolls. However, when a member with an Indian flag posts this article, all the negatives in it are conveniently forgotten and he is "thanked" for it. What's with the double standards?

 

[EjazR]

EjazR, what you are describing is a suitable opening position for India in its discussions with Pakistan. From there, you'll have to be flexible if you want to make progress.

After all, how many cease-fires between Israel and Egypt and Jordan were violated? A lot! Yet both countries have peace treaties with Israel today. Do you think that would have happened if these countries had stood on their "rights" rather than make bold initiatives?

The LoC results in a lot of ceasefire violations as well between India and Pakistan. The GoI has shown flexibility on Kashmir issue during the composite dialogue between Musharraf and Vajpayee and later Musharraf and Singh. More recently some significant tracts of land claimed by Bangladesh was agreed to be returned in a phased manner without any major diplomatic hurdles.

However, one thing that GoI would not be able to do - and IMO the GoP or the security establishment in Pakistan doesn't realize yet - is to be seen as kneeling down in front of terror groups like HUJI Hizb and LeT (aka JuD). The perception that GoI has come to the negotiating table because of their terror tactics would be unacceptable to the Indian public and would have grave consequences in Pakistan itself as well. These groups will become more powerful if they are even "perceived" among the Pakistani public to have the power to alter events in India.

That is where we are stuck at present. Otherwise as per some GoP and GoI officials , before the 2008 Mumbai attacks we were just an announcement away from a settlement.

 

[EjazR]

^^^
First of all, I would just like to clarify that both the articles are written by a person who was born on the Pakistani side of Kashmir and was also a JKLF founding member in the same league as Yasin Malik.

The confusion is that most of the "Sepratist sentiment" in India is for independance and a small section of that is for joiining Pakistan. BUT, the indepednace group have no idea that "indepedance" is not part of the UN resolution. Besides, what will "Freedom" from India get them, freedom to practice their religion - which they already have. Freedom to vote and elect their own govt. which they might not get if they join Pakistan. Hence the view that the sepratists are confused is apt. That is why it consists of mainly impressionable youth who are easily swayed by emotions instead of facts.




Regarding getting the locals involved in getting their opinion in the settlement. IMO that is extremely important. Any one who says the locals should have no say in the matter are wrong. Its not the GoI position on this matter either.

However, at the same time, the local Kashmiris should have knowledge of all the facts (i.e. what do the UN resolutions mean, Independence is not an option e.t.c.) As well as there should be no terror groups operating in Kashmir. HUJI, Hizb, LeT e.t.c. create an environment of fear for any Kashmiri who wants to advocate a pro-govt. point of view or even wants to join a govt. job or service.
This pre-requiste requires GoP's active co-operation. I don't think we will see any resolution if these groups continue to operate freely.

As an example, during the Musharraf era, some hard steps were taken to curtail these groups and composite dialogue had taken the issue forward so much so that apparently we were just an announcement away at a settlement.
2004-2008 even though it had bomb blasts happening across India did not stop the GoI doggedly pursuing resolution of Kashmir with Musharraf with the active involvement of the APHC(excluding Gilani's fringe group) as well as pro-India parties.

However, after mumbai attacks there is certainly a reversal. Most notably where APHC member Qureshi was shot in the head for advocating talks with the GoI. In such an atmosphere how can Kashmiris honestly say what they want. The countering prevalence of para-military forces is ALSO not conducive and once there is genuine dismantling of Kashmir-centric groups in Pakistan, these should be removed and the local J&K police handed over the duties for policing.

 

[EjazR]

Kashmir CBMs also likely in foreign secy level talks

NEW DELHI: Besides terrorism, strengthening Kashmir related Confidence Building Measures (CBMs) including the cross LoC trade would also form part of agenda for the forthcoming foreign secretary-level talks between India and Pakistan.
Interacting with Peoples’ Democratic Party (PDP) chief Mehbooba Mufti here on Saturday, Home Minister P. Chidambaram said the bottlenecks in smooth conduct of trade on Srinagar Muzaffarabad and Poonch-Rawalakote routes would be addressed.
He said government was keen to resolve problems of traders, who are complaining of lack of facilities and faulty system. Home Minister further told Ms. Mufti that government was considering adequate banking facilities including permission for Jammu and Kashmir Bank to open up its branches across the LoC in Pakistan Administered Kashmir.
Chidambaram also said that he would take appropriate measures for creating infrastructure facilities at the Salamabad and Poonch trade centers. Ms. Mufti had earlier complained that some quarters in New Delhi were deliberately creating problems and were bent to fail the cross LoC trade.
Meanwhile, a report from Srinagar said the cross LoC travel, started with much fanfare in 2005 has lost sheen due to severe security scrutiny and cumbersome procedures. During last three months, just 138 passengers have boarded two peace buses. In November alone 337 people have travelled through these buses.
Mufti also raised the issue with the Home Minister Chidambaram, who assured to look into the matter. She told Chidambaram that his decision to allow Kashmiri youth to return to their homes would gain credibility only if he liberalises existing travel facilities for ordinary citizens. She said divided families continue to suffer due to cumbersome procedures. Further a large number of Kashmiris were being denied passports on flimsy grounds. “Denial of passports was responsible for generating a feeling of siege among the young generation,” she told Home Minister.

 

[Abhiras]

keep dreaming.

We are not dreaming...the more & more Indian influence on the world increase...the more & more setback is provided to your mission to disintegrate india....

Whats happening in indian side of kashmir you should not be concerned about....
indian kashmir is even more safer then pakistani mainland

 

[neo4moss]

-Well now i guess the talk about "AZAD" kashmir is over by now....