Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[rubyjackass]

I still think same .loc make border finish whole matter india or pakistan can't take now 1 metter by force of each other.to hell with this issue its distroy us much much just for nothing.pakistan has to stop freedom fighter (by india terrarsts) and india has to widrow troops stop humen rights voilations make soft borders for poor people of both side give more power to kashmiris.solve it forever and let us live a humen life without load sheding and shortage of gas suger and wheat.our main issue then will be powerty we can fight with it and earn more respect in international comunity.both side should agreement also for not to spread propegenda or media war blame game against each other.its major issue finishing time.

I am with you Imran Sahab. THIs is the most practical solution. Once we agree that LOC is IB, we can let people do whatever the hell they want to do, conduct business, kiss people across the border what not if we make borders soft. The most convincing argument for this is, as you rightly pointed out, we are not going to be able to change things at all. It did not change when there was a chance to change. It will not change in future as well.

loc=ib is a fair compromise though I can say a lot of Indians may disagree with this, but I think they can be convinced. This is the most opportune moment ofr that. We have a congress govt and a fractured saffron brigade. As for Pakistanis, especially those from the Isalmic and military circles I dont think they will be ready to give up their 'cause' however futile that is. Whats your take on it?


If ever I thought this problem would have been solved irreversably only under a dictator like Musharraf, because anytime like now politicians may use it for saying it was not adequately discussed among people and then they may try to toss the issue over to milk votes.

 

[jarnee]

One question? Why are sensible people in Pakistan(assuming forum members) supporting this, when it means WAR. If there is a direct F2F war , both Pakistan and India will suffer, B. If its a Covert war Pakistan will suffer more, dont tell me our intelligence agencies are that impotent.

 

[ek_indian]

I am with you Imran Sahab. THIs is the most practical solution. Once we agree that LOC is IB, we can let people do whatever the hell they want to do, conduct business, kiss people across the border what not if we make borders soft. The most convincing argument for this is, as you rightly pointed out, we are not going to be able to change things at all. It did not change when there was a chance to change. It will not change in future as well.

I agree. This seems most practical and balanced solution.
Considering current scenario, India can not take pakistan's part of kashmir. Similarily Pakistan can not get India's part as well. So much ho-ha has been done regarding we "believe".....taking revenge...plebiscite....

loc=ib is a fair compromise though I can say a lot of Indians may disagree with this, but I think they can be convinced. This is the most opportune moment ofr that. We have a congress govt and a fractured saffron brigade. As for Pakistanis, especially those from the Isalmic and military circles I dont think they will be ready to give up their 'cause' however futile that is. Whats your take on it?

I agree with your part. However if Pakistan power center (read army) wishes, both nation could reach at a conclusion otherwise another Kargil!! My take is if PA is on board, everything else does not matter.

If ever I thought this problem would have been solved irreversably only under a dictator like Musharraf, because anytime like now politicians may use it for saying it was not adequately discussed among people and then they may try to toss the issue over to milk votes.

Agree. This was the prime reason I advocated for making peace with PA.

 

[Bhushan]

I'm not talking about lists, I'm talking about the basis on which those lists were formalized.

When somebody is in complete denial , nobody can prove him anything in this world.Asim when you are in denial how come you will understand the basis on which those lists were formalized.

 

[krish]

India A shame democracy[/quote]

whom ur calling a shame democracy in my country My Defense Minister can call upon the army generals and take action in case of any misbehavior and pass an order to court martial him but i dare ur PM to call any of the army general in pakistan and court martial them for corruption if they have guts........... .... forget court martial the general do ur democratically elected government have control over the defense budget the government should give what the army wants....... but In Indian Army gets what the democratically elected government fixes........... trust me WE ARE PROUD OF OUR DEMOCRACY AND OUR ARMY...................

 

[krish]

Dont denigerate the term Patriot. Its like saying - Bal Thakery is a true Patriot.

Bal Thakery IS A TRUE PATRIOT ....................

 

[Laughing Buddha]

Bal Thakery IS A TRUE PATRIOT ....................

Yes My Friend

Bal Thakery is a true Indian Bal who does not understand the word " Democracy "..and no doubt he is PATRIOT by harming innocent and poor people...his goons always takes on poor and needy people... he will never speak about Gujarati and Marwari.....I think he is one of "The Shame of India" where India does not Shine.... and believe me i don't support any political party.

 

[All-Green]

Taimi, the term non-state actors is too easy to use and pretty convenient. Do you think people here are fools that they will believe that no ISI help was involved? A retired ISI general is seen at JuD meetings with terrorist honchos. What does that suggest?Salahuddin and Masood Azhar roam about openly. And terrorism has been a state policy of GoP for years, irrespective of the civilian or military govt. in power.

And don't count on the Americans leaving soon. Thank your country's stars that they are here in the first place. Otherwise Pakistan would have still been ruled by a military junta with Musharraf as its ring leader and the country would have been a pariah. Pakistan was of no use to the US after the cold war. Its was 9/11 that made Pak important for US. Thank your stars for that.

The likelihood of ISI planning the Mumbai attack is pretty much zero, ISI is not foolish/unprofessional to completely put their own country at risk via such obvious overt operations with extremely visible links to Pakistan and not to mention directed at soft targets only without any strategic advantage...a totally evil plan but on top of that also not gaining anything except bad name for Pakistan.
Even if some evil genius was in charge he would not give a green signal for such an operation.

If ISI was after something in India, it would target their Intelligence apparatus and command and control facilities to disrupt the Indian war machine.
Similar to what is being targeted in Pakistan by the TTP...

Still i would not say that i have concrete evidence that RAW is helping TTP, i am just saying based on experience that the trend of hitting ISI safe houses and other facilities is more of something which can be called a focused intelligence driven terrorism which needs some expertise.
Mumbai though sad and tragic is more of a bid by terrorists to create breathing space for themselves in wake of extremely hostile environment by driving Pakistan and India towards war and shifting Pakistan Army on the back foot.

Anyways, this is off topic...you can PM me and we can discuss in detail.

Regarding Kashmir, it is best that for now both countries accept LOC as soft border and make it easier for Kashmiris to travel on both sides of LOC within Kashmir.
This step tied with a review of the water accord to address Pakistan's genuine concerns as a downstream entity would make things many times better between both countries.
Third can be a trade accord and fourth can be transit of goods and gas etc.

This will deal a death blow to the extremist element in both countries and will usher in a new era of prosperity with both peoples focused towards economic development.

For sake of peace, egos have to be checked and past grievances should at least be toned down.

 

[yuba]

agree with all green make loc soft border encourage cross border trade because neither side is gonna give up claim on kashmir seems only viable solution

 

[RobbieS]

Regarding Kashmir, it is best that for now both countries accept LOC as soft border and make it easier for Kashmiris to travel on both sides of LOC within Kashmir.
This step tied with a review of the water accord to address Pakistan's genuine concerns as a downstream entity would make things many times better between both countries.
Third can be a trade accord and fourth can be transit of goods and gas etc.

This will deal a death blow to the extremist element in both countries and will usher in a new era of prosperity with both peoples focused towards economic development.

For sake of peace, egos have to be checked and past grievances should at least be toned down.

Agreed totally. Talking is the way forward. But as of now, the people who'd be ready for that in India will be in the minority.

Its just that an average person in India is fed up of terror attacks on shopping centers, malls, hotels , buses and what not. Have you seen the movie A Wednesday? A Bollywood flick. Normally I don't quote movies but this one captures pretty accurately how a average middle class Indian feels about terrorist attacks.

And the one refrain you'd often here from people is that talks never got India anything, Lahore summit-Kargil happened, Agra summit- Parliament attack happened. I might be wrong to blame the ISI for it all, but the fact remains that Pakistani support was pretty evident in most Islamic-terrorist attacks in India. Masood Azhar, Salahuddin, Sheikh Omar all these are names that spread terror in India and are/were residing in Pakistan controlled areas. Untill these people are reigned in, I am afraid talks wouldn't lead to anything. For every dialogue/summit there would be 10 terrorist plans ready to disrupt any move towards peace.

And I speak from hearing discussions in offices, homes and amongst strangers on trains. The common man in India wants peace but is afraid to be stabbed just when he thought its safe to step out into the open.

 

[Always Neutral]

My Questions to all the posters here who go the most feasible solution LOC = IB

1. Who will control the waters ? Both your populations are growing rapidly and finding a solution for that will be even more complex in the future ?

2. Will you give the rights to water distribution the Kashmiri's as its their water ? Well Sind is not ready give water to its so called Brothers in AJK which recently led to the cancellation of Zardar's visit. Indian states regularly squabble over water ?

3. Who is going to go after JUD if they do not accept such a situation and still insist on an armed struggle. Will the PA open new front as in FATA ?

Regards

 

[Contrarian]

Bal Thakery IS A TRUE PATRIOT ....................

Bal Thakeray is a a$$.

 

[dabong1]

Except that this ‘rule of majority’ didn’t apply to princely states, and Kashmir was a princely state. The rule that applied was that the rulers and rulers alone would decide which way to swing.

And the rulers of these areas chosse pakistan...... so they should be part of pakistan should they not ,according your logic?

Plebiscite was India’s self-imposed obligation in accordance with what was followed in Junagadh and Hyderabad. In fact, Kashmir wouldn’t have become such an imbroglio if Jinnah hadn’t become so impatient, or at least didn’t reject Mountbatten’s suggestion of plebiscite as early as 1st Nov, 1947 (I have to check the date).

Pakistan waited to see what would happen in Junagadh and Hyderabad......would the indians accept the wishes of the rulers or the people........you choose they people after invading the areas knowing fully well that being majority hindu they would vote for india.
Why the double standard when it comes to kashmir?

The double standard is on your part. Pakistan first rejected plebiscite in any of the princely states of Junagadh, Hyderabad and Kashmir and wanted accession as per Section 6(1) of India Act, 1935. (That section declared that accession will be deemed to have been completed if the ruler had executed the Instrument of Accession). But then when Pakistanis realized that their plans in Kashmir were coming to naught, they immediately changed their position and started asking for plebiscite. That is hypocrisy.

Maybe if you had accepted the wishes of the rulers of Junagadh and Hyderabad we would have done the same for kashmir........but you indians did not accept the wishes of the rulers when it came to Junagadh and Hyderabad but are willing to accept it when it comes kashmir........"Why the double standard when it comes to kashmir?"

Contrast that to India’s position. India had always maintained that plebiscite would be the key. Accordingly, plebiscite in Junagadh and Hyderabad was held. Unfortunately, in Kashmir, Pakistan’s presence complicated things, particularly because Pakistan was unwilling to honour its obligation under the UN resolutions. Since plebiscite was contingent upon Pakistan’s withdrawal of its own citizens and tribesmen (and subsequent demilitarization), which never happened, plebiscite never happened.

You invaded Junagadh and Hyderabad and then held a vote under the indian army........double standards again.

So. The resolutions are under Chapter VI, which merely make them ‘recommendatory’

.

And what was the recommendation?

Siachen would be violation of Shimla Accord, if you can prove that Siachen was part of Pakistan.

(ii) In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the ceasefire of December 17, 1971, shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognised position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line.

Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. i think that covers your excuse.

Regardless of that, if your logic is to be followed, then UN resolutions became void, the moment PA broke the cease fire agreement in 1965.

Not according to the UN......the UN resolution still stands.
Has the UN said that the kashmir resolution is void?

O yes, we have. It is a bilateral issue and no apple of Pakistan’s eye has any role here.

Well stop bringing china into it then.......you cant have it both ways.

Sure. Why not. I am assuming that all Pakistanis have been withdrawn from all of P0K.

The tribes man left many decades ago.......sorry excuse for not giving the people there rights.

O wait…

Wait for what?.... more excuses from india?

 

[asq]

the UN resolution of 1948 is no longer enforcable.. get over it... UN has.. When did you last see a neutral country of importance raise this issue in last few years??

It is people like u Karen who are not interested in solving world's problems without Wars. We call them War Mongers

Next war will not be fought in the shadows of Traiters of East pakistan or will not be fought when dum leaders are ruling Pakistan as in the case of Yahya Khan, it will be a senario in which WMD's will be a viable OPTION for Pakistan considering the ground realities of the front.

India never did and never will win against Pakistan but u guys assume too much, And u know what ASSUME means.

Your assume that all kashmiirs are happy to live under Indian rule. Wrong. Kashmiris have been demandinf freedom from India for 60 years. 90,000 have been killed so far and u assume it is peacefull inb Kashmi. Wrong.

You assume that you hold elections in Kashmir. Wrong they are mock elections.

ou assume that you won all the wars wrong.

You assume that India will retain the control on Kashmir fior ever . Wrong.

So Karen learn to live peaxce with your neighbours and solve the problems by negotiations and by threats.

 

[asq]

Bal Thakeray is a a$$.

Telling us that Bal Thackerey is an A&& means nothing, Charge him and jial him. Talk is only clever way of deciet, to make it believable, charge him, jail him,do not leave him as he is to do his dirty work.