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Kashmir | News & Discussions.

So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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despite India's ever-increasing international propaganda efforts

How many civil airports Pakistani administered Kashmir has?
Does Pakistani Kashmir have an international airport? How many?
Does Pakistani Kashmir have railway network? Please enlight us.

GB
 
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This is really shameful on the part of WB. The Indian diplomatic corps will get out in full force to check any untoward developments. We shall see a reversal or atleast toning down of language in the 'clause' in the days to come. That being said, read the boldfaced parts. They are contradictory!

If the WB is indeed an apolitical organization (which we all know it isnt) why make a hue and cry over political issues? They dont need to meddle in internal affairs of a country.
Actually the shameful part is the GoI's position on violating its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and its promise to to the people of J&K to hold a plebsicite in which they choose between India and Pakistan.

The WB by including this disclamer is only pointing out something the UNSC passed multiple resolutions on and that India and Pakistan agreed to - that the territory is disputed.

India has already maintained that J&K is an integral part of Indian Union!
Yes, yes we know - and by the same logic you would want to claim Texas and California. India 'maintaining' the moon is its proeprty does no make it so.

Residents of the state enjoy all the rights accorded to them by the constitution of India and they also exercise the right to vote in the Indian General Elections, the mark of citizenship! Show me people from other disputed territories who have the right to vote and are considered citizens!

Disputed status is when an area is under military occupation by a power. J&K is a state of India with a full political apparatus in place and the people enjoy the same rights as rest of the Indians elsewhere as provided by the Indian Constitution.
It is disputed territory per the UNSC resolutions and Pakistan's claim to the territory endoresed by the UNSC resolutions and accepted by India by virtue of her acceptance of said UNSC resolutions. You could make J&K heaven on earth, that does not make it any less disputed. OH, and very few 'normal territories' have tens of thousands of residents massacred, tortured, raped and buried in mass graves by hundreds of thousands of Indian Occupation Forces.

Oh, btw, EU considers J&K an integral part of India!
No it doesn't - the incident you refer to was a comment by an ambassador from the EU to the media on his way out of a meeting with a Kashmiri leader.

That does not equate to an 'official EU position' - that, so far, remains the resolutions adopted by the EU parliament that consider the territory disputed.
Texts adopted - Thursday, 24 May 2007 - Kashmir: present situation and future prospects - P6_TA(2007)0214

ps: With India's growing economic, military and political clout, it remains to be seen if such "apolitical" bodies can afford to antagonize the Indian diplomatic juggernaut! OTOH it might be a test whether India is up to the challenge!

tsk tsk, that is all you are reduced to as Indians - 'India can lie, cheat, deceive etc. and its 'economic, military and political clout will let it get away with it'.

I suppose on the bright side that you are honest and accept, even if indirectly, that you have no legal or moral position to support the 'integral part of India' claim.
 
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How many civil airports Pakistani administered Kashmir has?
Does Pakistani Kashmir have an international airport? How many?
Does Pakistani Kashmir have railway network? Please enlight us.

GB

"There are various projects underway for which the international donor agencies and monetary institutions have contributed immensely. For instance in rural areas, ADB (Asian Development Bank) is playing an effective role to build back the infrastructure that was terribly ruined due to the deadly earth quake of 2005. Neelum Valley Road andHatian Boys College is being built by ADB under the aegis of Energy Efficiency investment program (EEIP). Likewise we have some educational and health projects and Hospitals for which the friendly countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Turkey, UK and other countries have contributed hugely. HUBCO is also setting up a multibillion Hydel power project at New Bong Escape Mirpure.
Similarly the Asian Development Bank, the World Bank, UNICEF and other international monetary institutions have greatly been involved in the socio-economic upliftment in the region."



yada, yada, yada - now get back to topic.
 
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Actually the shameful part is the GoI's position on violating its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and its promise to to the people of J&K to hold a plebsicite in which they choose between India and Pakistan.
What, no option for independence? No wonder.
Personally if you ask me, I am for "to each his/her own". But for the big picture and as an Indian, Kashmir is too important strategically for India to give up its claim. Add to it the instrument of accession and the prerequisites needed for a plebiscite to take place.
The WB by including this disclamer is only pointing out something the UNSC passed multiple resolutions on and that India and Pakistan agreed to - that the territory is disputed.
The legality of that disclaimer is up in the air, for an apolitical body should not interfere with politics!
Yes, yes we know - and by the same logic you would want to claim Texas and California. India 'maintaining' the moon is its proeprty does no make it so.
If push comes to shove, it might be possible! If India buys a piece of real estate on the moon in the near future, then yes, we will claim that too, and make sure our interests are protected. You know India is one among only 6 countries which can claim a place on the Moon, we do have the technologies to make that possible.
It is disputed territory per the UNSC resolutions and Pakistan's claim to the territory endoresed by the UNSC resolutions and accepted by India by virtue of her acceptance of said UNSC resolutions.
Implying things which aren't true? You should do better my friend.
The part about Indian occupation forces qualifies as a rant and I will leave it at that.
No it doesn't - the incident you refer to was a comment by an ambassador from the EU to the media on his way out of a meeting with a Kashmiri leader.
Yet, the comment was made after talking to a Kashmiri leader. There was an intent behind that comment.
That does not equate to an 'official EU position' - that, so far, remains the resolutions adopted by the EU parliament that consider the territory disputed.
Texts adopted - Thursday, 24 May 2007 - Kashmir: present situation and future prospects - P6_TA(2007)0214
fair enough!
tsk tsk, that is all you are reduced to as Indians - 'India can lie, cheat, deceive etc. and its 'economic, military and political clout will let it get away with it'.
You would have done the same thing if you were powerful. Why dont anyone makes noise about Taiwan's or Tibet's independence? B'coz China is powerful!
I suppose on the bright side that you are honest and accept, even if indirectly, that you have no legal or moral position to support the 'integral part of India' claim.
There are no morals in politics or for that matter when it comes to National interests. However, comparatively, India does have a higher moral stand.
I shall refrain from commenting about the legal status for it will turn into yet another Kashmir thread. Lets keep it on the legality of WB clause and its implications.

What if India says to hell with it and finds other sources to fund development in J&K? Its not like we cant spare a few hundred millions.
 
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What, no option for independence? No wonder.
Personally if you ask me, I am for "to each his/her own". But for the big picture and as an Indian, Kashmir is too important strategically for India to give up its claim. Add to it the instrument of accession and the prerequisites needed for a plebiscite to take place.
All of which have been discussed elsewhere and I'll leave it at that.
The legality of that disclaimer is up in the air, for an apolitical body should not interfere with politics!
This is not politics - the WB is merely pointing out that which is self-evident. Just because Indians are in a state of denial does not mean everyone else has to as well.

If push comes to shove, it might be possible! If India buys a piece of real estate on the moon in the near future, then yes, we will claim that too, and make sure our interests are protected. You know India is one among only 6 countries which can claim a place on the Moon, we do have the technologies to make that possible.
'IF' you buy it, as of now you have not, and J&K is disputed, and considered so by a majority of the world.
Implying things which aren't true? You should do better my friend.
The part about Indian occupation forces qualifies as a rant and I will leave it at that.
Not implying, STATING things which are true, and a nation that blatantly reneges on its commitment to hold a plebiscite that would allow the people of the region to determine their destiny is 'Occupying', and its forces enforcing its control are 'Occupation Forces'.
Yet, the comment was made after talking to a Kashmiri leader. There was an intent behind that comment.
Intent or misspoke or whatever - it was not an official EU position as you accepted below, and only time will tell if that comment was one of 'intent' and the EU follows suite.
You would have done the same thing if you were powerful. Why dont anyone makes noise about Taiwan's or Tibet's independence? B'coz China is powerful!
Taiwan and Tibet are not disputed between two other nations nor are there multiple resolutions in the UNSC endorsing that POV.

What if India says to hell with it and finds other sources to fund development in J&K? Its not like we cant spare a few hundred millions.
By all means do so - it is your right to woo the kashmiri hearts and minds as you see fit, and have various local figures, political and otherwise, on Indian payroll as Indian agents.;)
 
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DAWN
By Masood Haider
Wednesday, 23 Dec, 2009

The World Bank has refused to accept occupied Kashmir as an integral part of India and has insisted on a disclaimer from the Jammu and Kashmir government that funding for a project will not be seen as recognition of India’s territorial claim on the state.

The bank has put a ‘disclaimer clause’ for bankrolling a key project in the disputed state which indicates that funding of projects in disputed areas should not be used to endorse territorial claims, said a news report here on Tuesday.

‘If you have a query on World Bank’s decision on J&K, ask Prabhu now.’ This has been communicated to New Delhi by the occupying state government which wants the World Bank-funded Rs740 crore ‘Participatory Watershed Management Project’ to be completed.

Indian occupied Jammu and Kashmir’s Forest Minister Mian Altaf Ahmad, along with MPs from the state met Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee recently in New Delhi to discuss the issue.

The government of the occupied state wants New Delhi to settle issue with the World Bank, which has refused to fund more projects in the state, treating it as a disputed territory between India and Pakistan. Mr Ahmad said the World Bank had raised the disclaimer issue last year after assessment of the project which was then at the funding stage.

He said if the centre pursued the matter; the bank could be convinced to give up the disclaimer condition. The World Bank was instrumental in committing India to allow the waters of the state’s three principal rivers — the Indus, the Jhelum and the Chenab — to flow unimpeded under the Indus Water Treaty of 1960.

Article XI of the treaty is quite emphatic that it will deal only with the water-sharing issue and its implementation will not acknowledge or waive any other rights other than those specified in the treaty.

In other words, it will have nothing to do with the territorial dispute between the two parties.

In the troubled history of India-Pakistan relations, the Indus Water Treaty stands out as a major success for which the World Bank, the third signatory to the treaty, deserves great credit. As party to the treaty, the bank created an $895 million Indus Basin Development Fund to which India contributed some $174 million.

This is the second time this year that India has had friction with a multilateral development agency over project funding in a state that has a border dispute.

An Asian Development Bank (ADB) country loan to India had run into trouble because it included funding for a watershed development project in Arunachal Pradesh — a point that was objected to by the Chinese at the ADB meeting. The World Bank had funded two projects in Jammu and Kashmir under the integrated Watershed Development Programme with Rs900 million from 1990 to 1999 and Rs1.98 billion from 1999 to 2005 without bringing up the disclaimer issue.

A team of the World Bank headed by Norman Piccioni had visited the occupied state from May 5 to May 12 last year to assess the feasibility of the Participatory Watershed Management Project.

The project is likely to cover 3,14,705 hectares for adopting integrated watershed management to reverse the degradation of the natural resource base and improve the livelihood of poor rural households in the project area.

The World Bank will finance 80 per cent of the project and the state government 17 per cent. Participatory communities will contribute 3 per cent.

If implemented, 1,74,250 households will be covered while 50,675 households will directly benefit from the project.

Overall, it is expected to benefit over a million people and generate 4.5 million person-days of wage employment besides providing jobs to 2,000 people regularly for seven years.
 
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Lets see what's the outcome of this disruption by WB. IMO, the WB will be forced to back off and pass the loan without any stupid demands for a disclaimer.
 
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excellent move by World Bank.

Kashmir is indeed disputed territory, and it shall be dealt with that way. We place strong emphasis on solving all outstanding issues.
 
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Kashmir is a disputed teritory. Whats new about it. India itself took the matter to the UN.

Stop behaving like childs and grow up.
 
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and the world bank's opinion on the "disputed" nature of Kashmir matters why?


World Bank Group is an International Development Bank and very broadly are a wing of United Nations ;)


Ten Things Worth Knowing About The World Bank in India

1. India is one of our ‘founding fathers’.

India was among the 17 original participants of the 1944 Bretton Woods conference which conceived the idea of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD)—more commonly known today as the “World Bank”. In fact, it was the India delegation which first suggested the name IBRD. The Bank’s New Delhi office, established in 1957, is the oldest continuously functioning World Bank country office.


2. Our loans are a cheap source of financing.

India receives roughly half of its World Bank loans interest free. These are provided by the Bank’s International Development Association. This agency provides grants and “credits”, which are loans at zero interest, with a 0.75 percent finance charge. The remaining half of World Bank loans to India are provided by the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, another World Bank agency which provides loans at low interest rates. Countries that borrow from the IBRD have more time to repay than if they borrowed from a commercial bank—15 to 20 years with a three-to-five-year grace period before the repayment of principal begins.


3. India is the largest recipient of our financial assistance.

India remains the Bank’s largest single borrower. Our lending to the country touched $2.9 billion in FY 2005 – more than double the amount lent a year earlier. The bulk of new lending has gone to much-needed infrastructure and human development projects.





rest of article available here (WB website)

:cheers:

India - Ten Things Worth Knowing About The World Bank in India
 
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We have come too far to abandon the Kashmir cause now, we have fought two wars over Kashmir and abandoning it would be a disgrace to all who died and sacrificed for it.

And your "Tibet" solution won't work, remember that according to the UN Kashmir is still "disputed". Save your idea for 70 or so years later.

India recognises this stance of Pakistan ..... and India is cool with it ..... rather India has reconciled itself to having a perpetually hostile neighbour on its doorstep and is reacting to a situation not of its own choosing ..... but a stark reality nonetheless.

So India arms itself. So India locks down its borders. So India shuts shop as far as dialogue is concerned. So India looks within and continues to grow ..... slowly but steadily. So India engages with the world ..... increasingly as an equal.

India will not budge on kashmir dear pakistani brothers and sisters.

As an Indian I will not allow it.

And I shall teach my children not to allow it.

And they will teach their children.

We will work harder. We will generate greater wealth. We will pay a larger chunk of our earnings to our government too if need be.

We will outarm you. We will outmaneuver you. We will outnegotiate you. We will outlobby you. We will outsmart you. We will outspend you.

But we will keep Kashmir.

You and your future generations have a choice.

Give up Kashmir and join hands with us as friends.

Or continue on your present path.

Yes Kakgeta ..... our grandchildren (and their children) will get to see the results of your choice 70 years from now.

That I promise you. :cheers:

Cheers, Doc
 
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It's the Indian government having a hissy fit over the 'disclaimer' - if the WB's opinion does not matter just accept the fnding with the disclaimer and move on.


Hissy fit? I wasnt even aware of this "news" until you posted a thread on it. The GOI has more problems stemming from the Coperhagen summit, i doubt the WB opinion on Kashmir is causing anyone sleepless nights.

We won't accept the disclaimer, we'll just reject the loan. It's not like we really need it.
 
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FIRST THISNG IS THAT I HATE ARMY WHO IS DEPLOYED IN HEAVEN KASMIR
with army jawans it is a must to teach the enemy a lesson. the
lessons are usually carried out by SPECAAL OPERATION GROUPS who are beyond the purview of Law or a simple enquiry. So needless of say that why we have witnessed a large scale disaappearances of Men in Kashmir, eliminated without trail often.

A HoD of Kashmir University , a close friend, was picked once by Army in Anantnag and released after three days, that too because he managed to arrange a meeting with a senior officer in Bahinal prison who accidentally hapened to listen to his request, and was subsequenlty released. .Normally, it is the angry Jawan in uniform who controls the street or an area and decides on the spot about the the person in sight. Rape is one such lesson.

I was once myself caught by Army jawans in Srinagar, it was cufew
time, and even after showing my I.card i was punished to perform Murga ( chicken ) and then made to run.. The 'run' word those days meant to shoot the runner from behind and label him as offender of curfew or a terrorist etc.

The men in uniform are supposed to be orderly, a friend in kashmir
told me once, while he agreed that militants usually come from weired backgrounds and can do many bad things,.But, unfortunately Army record in kahmir is very very poor in this regard,

Those who use the media filter to try to understand what is happening
in Kashmir should realize they're looking at a shadow play. A curtain
lies between events and us. What is played out on the screen depends on who manipulates the sources of light.

Last summer, the Valley was overwhelmed by several months of
unprecedented non-violent public protest. It was triggered by the
complicated Amarnath land issue, but on the streets the people were
saying "Hum kya chahte? Azadi!" We are hearing this again this summer,
triggered by the rape and murder of two young women from Shopian in
south Kashmir. Only the stone deaf could miss the cry.

Between these two summer uprisings came the Assembly elections of
December. As everyone braced for a boycott, people did turn out to
vote. This surprise turnout was presented as nothing short of a
miracle and we were informed that this was "a vote for Indian
democracy". Those who wondered why people who had braved bullets only
a month ago should suddenly queue up to vote were reminded that
Kashmiris were an unpredictable, even contrary, people.

In fact, there is a frightening consistence about the Kashmiri chant
for decades: "Hum kya chahte? Azadi!" Protests have begun for all
sorts of reasons but they are a manifestation of the simmering anger
always close to the surface.

The current round of protests were given a head-start by the
distinctly amateur vacillations of the state chief minister, not least
his puzzling shifts on what may have actually happened to Nilofar, 22,
and her sister-in-law Asiya, 17, on the night of May 29.
Well-intentioned though he may be, Omar Abdullah seems very badly
advised, or else possessed of a political death-wish.

In its election campaign the National Conference made a point of
underlining that it was seeking a mandate for development, for bijli,
sadak, pani. It made no claim to settling masla-e-Kashmir or the
Kashmir issue. But once the elections were over, they went along with
the Indian establishment, which trumpeted the turnout as a decisive
mandate in India's favour. The inability of Omar Abdullah's government
to reach out to the people of the Valley in the past fortnight is a
timely reminder of the dangers of that delusion. In just a little over
10 days, the protests have damaged the patina of normalcy that the
election 'success' painted on a deeply troubled situation.

In the middle of all this, but almost buried by events, the J&K police
announced the arrest of Constable Nazir Ahmed of the India Reserve
Police battalion for allegedly raping a minor girl in Baramulla in
north Kashmir. (They admitted the constable was a former Personal
Security Officer of Ghulam Hassan Mir, legislator and former
minister). Days after the incident, a scuffle between the families of
the victim and the policeman led to the tragic killing of the victim's
grandmother.

Both incidents of the past fortnight must be placed next to one from a
few years ago, when the infamous "sex scandal" led to huge protests,
bringing Srinagar to a grinding halt. That was a tawdry tale of the
sexual exploitation of vulnerable women, including the prostitution of
minors. It was on a massive scale, with the involvement of politicians
, senior bureaucrats, police and paramilitary officers. The scandal
exposed the ugly networks of power and oppression, which prop up the
structures of control in Kashmir. It also laid bare the vulnerability
of women all over the Valley, prey to the brutal arrogance unleashed
by 20 years of intense militarization and unbridled power.

It's a good time to remember that the acquisition of land for the
Amarnath yatra was only the spark that set off last summer's protests.
But the real fuel was widespread resentment about the fact that
thousands of acres of agricultural, orchard and forest land is under
occupation by the army and paramilitary forces, housing their feared
camps and cantonments and vast logistics bases. The Kashmiris'
behaviour then turns out to be underpinned by a fairly straightforward
political reason: we don't need to delve into their fragile 'psyche'.

This week, the lights behind the curtain are being moved around to
give the illusion of change: the CRPF's duties are to be handed over
to the J&K police. If true, this will need massive local police
recruitment and give a disturbing new twist to the Indian government's
promise of employment to young Kashmiris. (However, from the
Establishment's point of view, a policeman in every home may well be a
solution to Kashmir's troubles.)

But this change of guard will not alter the lives of ordinary people.
They do not care if the oppressive figure of the soldier wears the
uniform of the Indian Army, its paramilitary forces, or is their
neighbour in brand new fatigues. Such shallow transformation is not
new: people remember the 'disbanding' of the dreaded Special
Operations Group, which was simply merged into regular police
operations; or the highly public way in which the CRPF replaced the
BSF in Srinagar, leaving the countryside in the Army's iron grip.

This summer's protest is not just about the rape and murder of two
women, the violation of human rights, or even the repeal of some
draconian law. The shadow play must not distract us from the real
issue, which is the extraordinary and intolerable militarization of
Kashmir.
 
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^^^

You can do better I believe. Please let us know what exactly you want to discuss.

And yes......link please?
 
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