Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[sensenreason]

I think the lovely weather in Dubai is making you ask for too much!

Somehow i have no doubt in my mind that Shiv Sena and RSS chest-thumpers will issue some not so very kind statements (threats), BJP will throw huge tantrum, and some conveniently timed corruption cases will be opened up against him

that, apart from the inevitable sedition charges themself.

indeed a brave admission by the minister, who has obviously come to grips with the ground realities in the occupied region

Hmm...If India gets Aksai Chin and ofcourse Ladakh and Jammu..I dont see who will have any problems with the solution proposed by the minister.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You assert that the Congress, and the Left have a 'vicious' hatred for Indic civilisation. What and where did this come out?

That hatred clearly comes out in the poisonous distortions of history that are fed to innocent minds through official textbooks. A detailed analysis by Meenakshi Jain is available at:

http://voiceofdharma.org/indology/Sa...ed_history.doc

Have you read it yourself? Just a few observations, not a detailed analysis, since it is nothing but a piece of toilet paper:

1. There are no poisonous distortions of history listed in the entire note, not one, only Meenakshi Jain's complaint that she would have ordered the material in a different order. Putting the correct facts in different sequences does not amount to distortion; it amounts to bad writing, at worst; given what I have read of Satish Chandra and what I have read of Meenakshi Jain, I would prefer to read Satish Chandra to reading Meenakshi Jain; this is an academic view of the language that they each write, not a political view, since I happen to disagree with both of them and their political views;

2. The note is focussed totally on Late Mediaeval Indian History; to call a spade a spade, she concentrates only on the so-called Muslim period; there is no complaint from her about anything from the Ancient or the Early Mediaeval Indian historical periods, not in the first 25% of her note; to get a poisonous aversion to Indic civilisation from this requires an imagination of considerable horse-power;

3. Regarding her preliminary remarks, I found 12 questionable or downright incorrect comments, or propaganda-oriented remarks; if you wish, my full annotation of her note can be forwarded to you at a suitable e-mail address;

4. She herself was the Goebbels who was hired to distort history by the RSS lackey Murali Manohar Joshi, when he demanded, and was given the Ministry of Education, later called the Ministry of Human Resources. You are of course aware of the scandals that surrounded the administration during his tenure, including his attempts to get control of colleges, universities and the institutes of technology through the naked exercise of power by the UGC;

5. All in all, these do not even approach the liberties taken by the RSS school textbooks, which have been running in RSS schools long before Joshi attempted to hijack the Education Ministry.

6. Finally, we Indians are famous for being the least history minded people in the whole world. This note is characteristic. It is undated, to start with; someone unwary reading it may even believe that it reflects current states of the institutions and the text-books. There is no indication that her fabrications were thrown out neck and crop once the Sangh Parivar were torn away from the ministry; it appears almost as if she is discussing a major area of backwardness and outdated work which has to be set right, instead of being, at this moment, an account of what she set out to do, along with her fellow fascists, and what was subsequently thrown out.

Nothing could be more illustrative of the deliberately mischief-making approach of these schemers than the orientation and setting of the note itself.

What are you referring to, except to the RSS' own self-pitying analysis? And since when did Boy Scouts go around killing people of a different religion?

Boy scouts don't, and neither does the RSS.

The RSS was responsible for:

1. The violent and illegal destruction of the Babri Masjid;
2. The loss of numerous lives in the strife that followed;
3. The planned killing of nearly 1000 Muslims in the BJP-ruled state of Gujarat;
4. The murder of a Christian missionary, Graham Staines, and his two little children;
5. The murder of large numbers of Christian tribals in Orissa;
6. The encouragement and sponsorship of fanatic elements responsible for subordining officers in the Indian Army and for planting explosives on the Samjhauta Express, causing more loss of innocent lives;
7. The killings and murders between north Kerala and south Konkan, and the regular outbreaks of communal trouble in north Kerala;
8. The attempted suppression of civil liberties and harrassment of private individuals by the Ram Sene in Karnataka, through their role in fostering the founder of the Ram Sene, Prakash Mutalik.

This is just a short list. There are too many violent incidents, all reflecting the deepest discredit on these mindless morons, to list in full. Nor do I wish to go into further detail on a foreign, defence web-site.

It might be educative to refer to my detailed response to the ubiquitous, perpetually frenzied Kartic Sri, and my statement that disliking the practised and rehearsed mob-violence of the RSS did not mean support for the Congress or the Left. Which part of that statement did you not understand?

You talk of the Taslima Nasreen incident, and the Congress government cowering and cancelling her visa. Where did you pick up the information that this cowardly behaviour was supported by anyone not supporting the Sangh? What, in short, do the two things have to do with each other?

Finally, when did the MIM become secularist? They are flagrantly communal, down to adopting the name of the faction behind the Razakars in Hyderabad, prior to the police action, and everyone knows they are communal, not secularist. Or is that your way of defaming secularism, by calling a known communal faction secular?

I'm sure the MIM piously proclaim themselves to be secular. I don't recall anybody from the Congress or Left disputing that assertion. I am just calling them by the label that most of the political parties seem to accept.

Superb logic, superb arguments. You sound like a fanboy telling me that India lost every war that she fought, for a variety of reasons that he can't remember.

1. You don't know whether or not the MIM have ever proclaimed themselves secular; you just assume this and go ahead with the rest of your arguments on the bare possibility that they might have.
2. Not knowing whether or not they themselves have claimed to be secular, you lurch on to the next non-existent piece of logic, like a drunk staggering from one imaginary lamp-post to another. So the next step is to assume that the Congress and the Left haven't disputed their secularism. This is getting better by the minute.
3. Your comment on the Taslima Nasreen incident, and your brilliant rebuke of the 'secularists', is therefore based on the myth that they called themselves secular, and a leap of the imagination that the Congress and the Left have not denied what the MIM have not said, that they are secular.

I can only say that in that case, the Buddhists were responsible for raping and murdering thousands of people in the mediaeval Khwarizm kingdom and of building pyramids of skulls of people from the cities that they conquered, by using the logic that you have used.

a. The Mongols under Chengiz Khan attacked and destroyed the Khwarizm kingdom, and made pyramids of skulls of the cities that they conquered;
b. They never said that they weren't Buddhists, so they might well have been Buddhists;
c. The Muslim kingdoms to their south, including the Khilafat, didn't deny that they were Buddhists, so they obviously thought that they were Buddhist;
d. The Khilafat was responsible for the rape and murders of all these thousands by the Buddhists, since they didn't resist the rape and murders.

There you are.

It's easy to write history. Just takes a couple of ganja cigarettes, and an afternoon or two.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Joe, you have come up with a large number of allegations, which as we shall see, will evaporate under rigorous examination. Consider, for example, your litany against the RSS.

The RSS was responsible for:

1. The violent and illegal destruction of the Babri Masjid;

Now, you can't demolish a strong building without some planning. Name the individuals that organized the tools for the demolition of the domes, and tell us who climbed the domes to do the demolition. Further, tell us how, and specifically, when the solid, 4-foot thick walls were demolished (which is a separate story from the domes).

Without any specifics one can't just airily claim that "the RSS did it".

 

[Subramanian]

OK, this is getting ridiculous. Lets get one thing straight. Most people from IITs/IIMs DON'T HAVE A POLITICAL OPINION. They are not politically active, and don't care for whatever party that comes to power. Most of them don't have the time to worry about such issues. All they care about is their CVs and Jobs.

How do I know? I graduated from IIM Lucknow, class of 2009.

You want to see people who actively participate in politics, go to Delhi University, go to JNU etc and you'll find discussions on politics. In IITs/IIMs, all the discussion is focused on Theraja & Theraja, Kotler or ****. Seriously.

I repeat again and again,

The idea of mentioning IITs and IIMs was to kill the notion that right wing people need not necessarily be lower middle class or uneducated.

Secondly,I am also from an IIT and an IIM and there are all kinds of people,one who discuss the stuff mentioned or politics or both.

JNU is your washed up dreaming pseudo intellectual complex.It is a pity that all we got is JNU for activism.

 

[Subramanian]

They may be demonised for this, that and the other, by any group that you care to name, including the Congress and the Left. But that still doesn't give them the right to break the law.

You assert that the Congress, and the Left have a 'vicious' hatred for Indic civilisation. What and where did this come out? What are you referring to, except to the RSS' own self-pitying analysis? And since when did Boy Scouts go around killing people of a different religion?

It might be educative to refer to my detailed response to the ubiquitous, perpetually frenzied Kartic Sri, and my statement that disliking the practised and rehearsed mob-violence of the RSS did not mean support for the Congress or the Left. Which part of that statement did you not understand?

You talk of the Taslima Nasreen incident, and the Congress government cowering and cancelling her visa. Where did you pick up the information that this cowardly behaviour was supported by anyone not supporting the Sangh? What, in short, do the two things have to do with each other?

Finally, when did the MIM become secularist? They are flagrantly communal, down to adopting the name of the faction behind the Razakars in Hyderabad, prior to the police action, and everyone knows they are communal, not secularist. Or is that your way of defaming secularism, by calling a known communal faction secular?

I get your point,

Basically none of them are perfect,yeah true.But i would anyday choose the evil of the home rather than the borrowed evil of Congress and the Outdated left.

 

[Subramanian]

Have you read it yourself? Just a few observations, not a detailed analysis, since it is nothing but a piece of toilet paper:

1. There are no poisonous distortions of history listed in the entire note, not one, only Meenakshi Jain's complaint that she would have ordered the material in a different order. Putting the correct facts in different sequences does not amount to distortion; it amounts to bad writing, at worst; given what I have read of Satish Chandra and what I have read of Meenakshi Jain, I would prefer to read Satish Chandra to reading Meenakshi Jain; this is an academic view of the language that they each write, not a political view, since I happen to disagree with both of them and their political views;

2. The note is focussed totally on Late Mediaeval Indian History; to call a spade a spade, she concentrates only on the so-called Muslim period; there is no complaint from her about anything from the Ancient or the Early Mediaeval Indian historical periods, not in the first 25% of her note; to get a poisonous aversion to Indic civilisation from this requires an imagination of considerable horse-power;

3. Regarding her preliminary remarks, I found 12 questionable or downright incorrect comments, or propaganda-oriented remarks; if you wish, my full annotation of her note can be forwarded to you at a suitable e-mail address;

4. She herself was the Goebbels who was hired to distort history by the RSS lackey Murali Manohar Joshi, when he demanded, and was given the Ministry of Education, later called the Ministry of Human Resources. You are of course aware of the scandals that surrounded the administration during his tenure, including his attempts to get control of colleges, universities and the institutes of technology through the naked exercise of power by the UGC;

5. All in all, these do not even approach the liberties taken by the RSS school textbooks, which have been running in RSS schools long before Joshi attempted to hijack the Education Ministry.

6. Finally, we Indians are famous for being the least history minded people in the whole world. This note is characteristic. It is undated, to start with; someone unwary reading it may even believe that it reflects current states of the institutions and the text-books. There is no indication that her fabrications were thrown out neck and crop once the Sangh Parivar were torn away from the ministry; it appears almost as if she is discussing a major area of backwardness and outdated work which has to be set right, instead of being, at this moment, an account of what she set out to do, along with her fellow fascists, and what was subsequently thrown out.

Nothing could be more illustrative of the deliberately mischief-making approach of these schemers than the orientation and setting of the note itself.



The RSS was responsible for:

1. The violent and illegal destruction of the Babri Masjid;
2. The loss of numerous lives in the strife that followed;
3. The planned killing of nearly 1000 Muslims in the BJP-ruled state of Gujarat;
4. The murder of a Christian missionary, Graham Staines, and his two little children;
5. The murder of large numbers of Christian tribals in Orissa;
6. The encouragement and sponsorship of fanatic elements responsible for subordining officers in the Indian Army and for planting explosives on the Samjhauta Express, causing more loss of innocent lives;
7. The killings and murders between north Kerala and south Konkan, and the regular outbreaks of communal trouble in north Kerala;
8. The attempted suppression of civil liberties and harrassment of private individuals by the Ram Sene in Karnataka, through their role in fostering the founder of the Ram Sene, Prakash Mutalik.

Yeah you really do expect utopia to happen soon.

These are nothing compared to what hindus had to undergo for 1000 years under oppressive muslim rulers and 50 years under the congress **** suckers.

And that Ram Sene is not affiliated with the RSS and they r just chutes,creating useless trouble.

 

[Subramanian]

Joe, you have come up with a large number of allegations, which as we shall see, will evaporate under rigorous examination. Consider, for example, your litany against the RSS.



Now, you can't demolish a strong building without some planning. Name the individuals that organized the tools for the demolition of the domes, and tell us who climbed the domes to do the demolition. Further, tell us how, and specifically, when the solid, 4-foot thick walls were demolished (which is a separate story from the domes).

Without any specifics one can't just airily claim that "the RSS did it".

yeah,yeah they did it and there is nothing wrong with it if you compare this to what hindus had to endure.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I get your point,

Basically none of them are perfect,yeah true.But i would anyday choose the evil of the home rather than the borrowed evil of Congress and the Outdated left.

You didn't get it at all, did you? You don't have to choose between either evil. Just opt for the rule of law. You don't have to create a new party either. Just make it clear which way your vote will go. And watch Bihar happen.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yeah you really do expect utopia to happen soon.

These are nothing compared to what hindus had to undergo for 1000 years under oppressive muslim rulers and 50 years under the congress **** suckers.

And that Ram Sene is not affiliated with the RSS and they r just chutes,creating useless trouble.

Just go check. Everyone in Hubli and Dharwar knows. Pramod Mutalik was an RSS man for years.

Aged 13, he joined the RSS in 1975. In 2004, he become the convenor for South India for the Bajrang Dal. During this time, he helped the BJP in the assembly polls, especially in north Karnataka which soon became the party’s stronghold.​

Stating that he wanted a political platform to advance the objectives of Hindutva, he joined the Shiv Sena on August 28, 2005. He was accompanied by the former district president of the Bajrang Dal for Belgaum, Vilas Pawar, and some 5,000 workers belonging to the Bajrang Dal, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bharatiya Janata Party. This marked the formation of the Shiv Sena in Karnataka.​

They aren't affiliated. They are simply protected.

Pramod Multhalik has over 45 cases pending against him, and is wanted by the police in 11 districts of Karnataka. Most of these cases are still under investigation and relate to subversive activities, defiling religious books, unlawful assembly, violating prohibitory orders, and evading judicial warrants. Most were filed between the years 2000 and 2008. A look at the chargesheet makes it clear that he has never been arrested for any of these cases.​

People lodged complaints against them and found that they themselves were getting investigated. Just go check the mailing list of Nirbhaya Karntaka; or ask the Alternate Law Forum in Bangalore.

yeah,yeah they did it and there is nothing wrong with it if you compare this to what hindus had to endure.

Do you realise how silly that sounds?

What do you plan to do, oppress all non-Hindus for 1,000 years and oppress all Congressmen and their families for 50 years?

Or make everyone keep to the law and lead lawful lives?

 

[Rig Vedic]

They aren't affiliated. They are simply protected.

Pramod Multhalik has over 45 cases pending against him, and is wanted by the police in 11 districts of Karnataka. Most of these cases are still under investigation and relate to subversive activities, defiling religious books, unlawful assembly, violating prohibitory orders, and evading judicial warrants. Most were filed between the years 2000 and 2008. A look at the chargesheet makes it clear that he has never been arrested for any of these cases.​

People lodged complaints against them and found that they themselves were getting investigated.

BJP govt in Karnataka is a recent phenomenon ... Mutalik has fought elections against the BJP. Who was protecting him for all these years?

 

[KS]

The RSS was responsible for:

1. The violent and illegal destruction of the Babri Masjid;

It would have been prevented if the Muslim organisations could have voluntarily given the land for the construction of a temple considering the relative importance of the structure to each group.

2. The loss of numerous lives in the strife that followed;

Muslim mobs were equally responsible.

3. The planned killing of nearly 1000 Muslims in the BJP-ruled state of Gujarat;

The government told parliament that 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus were killed, 223 more people reported missing and another 2,500 injured..........Junior Home Minister Sriprakash Jaiswal told the upper house that more than 900 women had been widowed and 600 children orphaned in the riots.

Sorry I dont see anything great in bloating your figures to prove a point.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Gujarat riot death toll revealed

4. The murder of a Christian missionary, Graham Staines, and his two little children;
5. The murder of large numbers of Christian tribals in Orissa;

Both the points have their root cause in one thing - 'Harvesting of the souls by the fanatic evangelists' - Now dont tell that they dont exist.

Also another main trigger was the killing of Swami Lakshmanada Saraswati by these same fanatics.

6. The encouragement and sponsorship of fanatic elements responsible for subordining officers in the Indian Army and for planting explosives on the Samjhauta Express, causing more loss of innocent lives;

Oh Cmon --- it has not been proved that it was Lt.Col Purohit who did that. He is been suspected just like LeT and JeM were suspected initially.
Here is what the US Treasury hahs to say about the attack.

In return for Qasmani's support, al Qaida provided Qasmani with operatives to support the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India, and the February 2007 Samjota Express bombing in Panipat, India. In 2005, Qasmani provided Taliban leaders with a safe haven and a means to smuggle personnel, equipment, and weapons into Afghanistan.

WebCite query result

Since there is so much ambiguity and no Hindu organisation has claimed responsibility like what IM did yest,I prefer to wait for the courts to pronounce their final judgement.

7. The killings and murders between north Kerala and south Konkan, and the regular outbreaks of communal trouble in north Kerala;

Again you are saying as if only the VHP/BD is doing this and all other groups are as white as angels. Both of them are responsible for any disturbance. Accept it. Dont put all the blame on Hindu Right wing orgs.

8. The attempted suppression of civil liberties and harrassment of private individuals by the Ram Sene in Karnataka, through their role in fostering the founder of the Ram Sene, Prakash Mutalik.

So why blaming it on the RSS ?? RSS did not like his activities and sidelined him.Ultimately he was expelled from BD in 2005.

A fast mover, peddling his brand of Hindutva - Hindustan Times

 

[KS]

Just go check. Everyone in Hubli and Dharwar knows. Pramod Mutalik was an RSS man for years.

I checked and came up with some startling revelations.

Aged 13, he joined the RSS in 1975. In 2004, he become the convenor for South India for the Bajrang Dal. During this time, he helped the BJP in the assembly polls, especially in north Karnataka which soon became the party’s stronghold.

The italicised part continues as The BJP however chose not to defend the various criminal cases against his workers. He was soon sidelined in the Dal for his extreme views, and was later expelled.

Stating that he wanted a political platform to advance the objectives of Hindutva, he joined the Shiv Sena on August 28, 2005. He was accompanied by the former district president of the Bajrang Dal for Belgaum, Vilas Pawar, and some 5,000 workers belonging to the Bajrang Dal, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bharatiya Janata Party. This marked the formation of the Shiv Sena in Karnataka.

This continues as Muthalik quit the Sena in 2006 after the party revived its demand for the merger of the Marathi speaking areas like Belgaum with Maharashtra. He then formed the Rashtriya Hindu Sena

Dont ask me the source,its the same Wiki page on Pramod Muthalik you referred to.

They aren't affiliated. They are simply protected.

Pramod Multhalik has over 45 cases pending against him, and is wanted by the police in 11 districts of Karnataka. Most of these cases are still under investigation and relate to subversive activities, defiling religious books, unlawful assembly, violating prohibitory orders, and evading judicial warrants. Most were filed between the years 2000 and 2008. A look at the chargesheet makes it clear that he has never been arrested for any of these cases.

Who knows he may have made use of two words - "Anticipatory Bail"

And read this also;

For, he too thought the Sangh Parivar was going soft on Hindutva. “This was the reason why he was sidelined in the Parivar and joined the Shiv Sena in 2005" said a key Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) functionary, who did not wish to be named, in Pune.

A fast mover, peddling his brand of Hindutva - Hindustan Times

There is no point in arguing if you wish to cherry pick and intentionally omit one part of the story to demonise the RSS to further your point.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

any more rants??? or can this pointless thread be closed

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

[A wikileaks] cable described Indian Army in gross Human rights violations in Indian Held part of Jammu and Kashmir while some Lt. Gen HS Panag, the then GOC-in-Chief of the Northern Command of the Indian Army was equated with General Milosevic of Bosnia with regard to butchering Muslims through war crimes.

The cable urged Washington to secretly divert UN attention towards the genocide of innocent civilians in Held Kashmir on the hands of Indian Army and also suggested that US should avoid holding any joint drill with Indian army until it stops inhuman activities in Kashmir.

The cable termed one Lt. Col. AK Mathur as “Devil’s Advocate” at Srinagar. Another cable indicated involvement of top Indian Army leadership in engaging Hindu extremist militants to carry out certain terror operations to keep Indian Muslims on the back foot and to keep pressure on neighbouring Pakistan’s army and intelligence agencies, particularly the Inter services Intelligence . The cable did confirm the active presence of ISI in India but it refused to confirm any involvement of ISI in any terror incident across India and did confirm intelligence collection by its agents and operatives.

Wikileaks terms Former Indian Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor as a geek | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

 

[Joe Shearer]

The RSS was responsible for:

1. The violent and illegal destruction of the Babri Masjid;

It would have been prevented if the Muslim organisations could have voluntarily given the land for the construction of a temple considering the relative importance of the structure to each group.

Have you heard of the rapists' defence? "It wouldn't have been rape if she'd just cooperated!" So a matter in the courts becomes something that people take action on arbitrarily, with the aid and abetment of the local provincial government? And you come into a Pakistani forum and tell them that they are no-goodniks who can't do anything about people promoting illegal camps and training terrorists, and collaborating with sympathetic elements in the administration?

Irony obviously isn't your strong point.

2. The loss of numerous lives in the strife that followed;

Muslim mobs were equally responsible.

That's right. 85% of the population was attacked by the rest. Oh, I forgot to exclude the Christians and the Sikhs, from the rest.

You are beginning to sound like the guys who kill Christian women and children in their homes for blasphemy.

3. The planned killing of nearly 1000 Muslims in the BJP-ruled state of Gujarat;

The government told parliament that 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus were killed, 223 more people reported missing and another 2,500 injured..........Junior Home Minister Sriprakash Jaiswal told the upper house that more than 900 women had been widowed and 600 children orphaned in the riots.
Sorry I dont see anything great in bloating your figures to prove a point.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Gujarat riot death toll revealed

And this is the same government, the same Congress, you were referring to in your other posts? All of a sudden, they are truthful, reliable and full of integrity. I must introduce you to Captain Jack Sparrow.

4. The murder of a Christian missionary, Graham Staines, and his two little children;
5. The murder of large numbers of Christian tribals in Orissa;

Both the points have their root cause in one thing - 'Harvesting of the souls by the fanatic evangelists' - Now dont tell that they dont exist.

Also another main trigger was the killing of Swami Lakshmanada Saraswati by these same fanatics.

Yes, they do exist - so what is it that the Parivar likes to do? X does something in place Y; right, let's get the bastard. Let's burn alive A, in place B. And don't forget the kids, they'll grow up to be missionaries too.

The Maoists have already gone on record having killed Lakshmananda for his anti-people record of preaching hate and dividing people on communal lines. In case you haven't noticed, the Maoists, given their predilection for violence, are not particularly communal. In fact, the contrary; they execute any religious preachers in their territories. Funny how they thought Lakshmananda was a bigot and preacher of hate worth killing, but not Staines.

As far as the riots themselves go, the trouble is that you and other Sangh fanatics and bigots never bother to go into the background, the sociology and the anthropology of the situation.

I don't want to expose the whole dreadful situation on a foreign web-site. But if you look up the history of the culture of the Konds, who are now called Kandha by Sanskritising elements, and their history of human sacrifice, and the arms' length relationship they had with caste Hindu society, intermediated by the Pans, today called the Panas, a lot of things will fall into place.

You will find that the majority of the anti-Christian rioters were human-sacrificing, cattle-killing Konds, 'converted' through a programme of 'aggressive missionary' activity by the VHP, and set against their previous intermediating tribe, the Panas, among whom there were many converted Christians. It was converted-Hindu Kond against converted-Christian Pana; apparently, the converted-Christian Konds were affected to a much lesser extent.

If you want, I'll go further. But then don't tell me later that I'd embarrassed you.

6. The encouragement and sponsorship of fanatic elements responsible for subordining officers in the Indian Army and for planting explosives on the Samjhauta Express, causing more loss of innocent lives;

Oh Cmon --- it has not been proved that it was Lt.Col Purohit who did that. He is been suspected just like LeT and JeM were suspected initially.

So now we are equating this traitor to his oath with the LeT and the JeM? Well done!

Here is what the US Treasury hahs to say about the attack.

In return for Qasmani's support, al Qaida provided Qasmani with operatives to support the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India, and the February 2007 Samjota Express bombing in Panipat, India. In 2005, Qasmani provided Taliban leaders with a safe haven and a means to smuggle personnel, equipment, and weapons into Afghanistan.
WebCite query result

Since there is so much ambiguity and no Hindu organisation has claimed responsibility like what IM did yest,I prefer to wait for the courts to pronounce their final judgement.

Of course, when the Pakistanis say similar things, we hate it. Then it's a question of deliberate foot-dragging by them, deliberate filing of weak plaints, in order to encourage the judge to throw the case out, it's a question of tacit encouragement by the establishment.

Has it ever occurred to you that there might be a logical reason why Muslim organisations announce what they have done and take responsibility for it, and Hindu organisations in this case didn't?

Muslim organisations in India are on the losing side, both with regard to their stature in the eyes of people in general, in the eyes of the media, and even in the eyes of their own people. This is why they proclaim who they are; their message, that you get as good as you give, so leave us alone.

Hindu undercover organisations attack their own installations, temples and public property in order to raise sympathy for their cause - the Muslims are out to kill us all. For this to succeed, obviously the operations, the actions must be secret at all times.

7. The killings and murders between north Kerala and south Konkan

Again you are saying as if only the VHP/BD is doing this and all other groups are as white as angels. Both of them are responsible for any disturbance. Accept it. Dont put all the blame on Hindu Right wing orgs.

I've been visiting those areas from 1981, when I used to work selling steel. I've seen this growing in front of my eyes, first the aggressive Jan Sanghis and their inclination to riot first and think second, then the pack which followed, the front organisations, the VHP and the Bajrang Dal, each darker than the other, then groups to work women, minorities, tribals, professionals - one step at a time, with methodical, sustained work.

I am putting the blame on Hindu right-wing organisations, based on the evidence of my own eyes, and my friends' accounts (not Congressmen, not Leftists, before you ask). I was there; were you?

8. The attempted suppression of civil liberties and harrassment of private individuals by the Ram Sene in Karnataka, through their role in fostering the founder of the Ram Sene, Prakash Mutalik.

So why blaming it on the RSS ?? RSS did not like his activities and sidelined him.Ultimately he was expelled from BD in 2005.

A fast mover, peddling his brand of Hindutva - Hindustan Times

Because he was systematically protected from any police action against him, using the BJP's take over of the police force, the civil administration body that they address first. That single act in itself should tell you a lot about the Parivar.