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Kashmir | News & Discussions.

So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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I thought pakistanis did the 48... more devotion to king than king himself... freedom fighter for 1 lakh rupees.
stop exploiting poor and sending them across border.

One wonders, what incentives these Indian Officers were bidding for. ?

Is there any moral between the lines. !!!


More fake encounters in Indian Army
Sultan M Hali

The Indian Army suspended a Major and removed a Colonel from command on June 13, 2010 for their alleged role in staging the killing of three youths in North Kashmir’s Machil sector along the LoC on April 30 and dubbing them Pakistani infiltrators, reports the “Times of India”. Colonel D K Pathania was commanding the unit 4 Rajput, allegedly responsible for the fake encounter, while J&K police named Major Upender Kumar as the main accused. The Indian Army had last week ordered a probe after a police report accused Major Upender of luring the trio with a job offer and gunning them down for rewards and promotion.

“Colonel Pathania has been asked not to leave the Valley till inquiry is completed,” said Army’s Northern Command chief Lieutenant General B S Jaiswal. He was about to join his unit, which has relocated to Meerut. Pathania is the second officer to be removed from command after 33 Rashtriya rifles’ Colonel Gloria was removed for allegedly killing three boys in Dudipora-Handwara in North Kashmir in February 2006. It needs to be brought out that the Indian Army, which has let loose a reign of terror in the Valley of Kashmir, has committed every crime in the book.

Kashmir has been a flashpoint between Pakistan and India since the British left it as an unfinished agenda. Indian Army illegally occupied Kashmir. Pakistan and India have gone to war thrice, in 1947-48, 1965 and 1971 but the plight of the Kashmiris has not changed. In 1989, the Kashmiris took up the cudgel of launching a freedom movement. However, the Indian Army came down hard on the Kashmiris by deploying over seven lakh soldiers, brutalizing them through murder ****, loot and arson. In a bid to malign Pakistan for morally supporting the Kashmiris, initially, on the eve of every visit by an international dignitary to India, a fake attack was stage managed and Pakistan was blamed so that it could be pressurized and given a bad name. Later the Indian Army started staging fake encounters for earning medals for valour as well as accelerated promotions.

The Kargil War created even more opportunities for Indian Army personnel to conjure false encounters and create make-believe stories of valour. Last month, Indian army faced a huge embarrassment when its Armed Forces Tribunal raised serious questions over the Kargil war history setting the record straight regarding Indian fake claims in the Kargil skirmish, some of which came to light, when Brigadier Devinder Singh, who had commanded the 70 Infantry Brigade in the Batalik sector during the Kargil war petitioned against his superiors after being passed over for promotion and given only a low level peace time medal. Brigadier Singh had fought bravely but unfortunately for Singh, his superiors did not recognize his efforts and Lieutenant General Kishan Pal, his Corps Commander, doctored his battle performance report to underplay his role. Brigadier Singh became a victim of prejudice and that cost him a war medal and promotion.

The verdict in the favour of Kargil war hero Brigadier Devinder Singh came as a slap on the face of the Indian army’s Kargil war commanders. The tribunal has questioned the veracity of entire history of the Kargil war and concluded that top commanders fabricated war records to award their favourites with fake encounters. After a bitter decade-long fight, the Indian army has been forced to set the record straight about its performance in the Kargil conflict. In a judgment made public, Justice A.K. Mathur and Lieutenant-General Naidu have called on the Indian Army for a full investigation into the actions of the military leadership in the 1999 Kargil war. According to India Today, former Indian army chief General V.P. Malik has also admitted that the Indian Army had fudged the records for its gains. Readers may recall a February 01, 2010 exposé titled ‘Another Fake Kargil Hero emerges in Indian Army’, in which the lid had been blown off Grenadier Yonginder Singh Yadav and Havaldar Sanjay Kumar, who had been decorated and promoted out of turn for their feigned valour but later after the discovery of their falsehood, stripped of their ranks. After the Kargil conflict was over, the Indian Army Headquarters at New Delhi, which was stormed by controversies and massive criticism, not only for the debacle at the war front but also for the massive financial wrongdoings in the direction of procurements by army, had directed all the commanders of the Kargil front to immediately submit citations for the bravery of the soldiers so that the pressure from the political circles could be minimized nonetheless to boost up the morale of the demoralized troops.

In the hasty compliance of strong orders from the headquarters, the commanders at Kargil made a variety of blunders and submitted many fake citations with the recommendations of top military awards including the highest and the most prestigious Paran Vir Chakra) (PVC) award. Wrong citations started surfacing soon and the biggest blunder in this regard emerged when the farcical episode of PVC recipient Grenadier Yoginder Singh Yadav got exposed as Yoginder was found hiding at a military hospital in New Delhi while, following the fake citations of his commanders, the government of India had awarded him with the posthumous (after death) PVC award. Indian army leadership was taken to sword by the opposition parties in the parliament not only for outrageous display of combat at Kargil but also for huge financial wrongdoings in procurements, during the conflict.

The latest findings indicate that after pointing out glaring lapses and improprieties in purchase of specialized mountain warfare equipment for the Kargil war, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) of India had said that even non-high-altitude weaponry deals were pushed through by the Defence Ministry in the name of Operation Vijay. Today as the truth emerges after eleven years, the Indian Army must hang its head in shame and conduct a full length inquiry as the tribunal has ordered to cleanse its records once for all and expose all its fake heroes.
 
ever heard of the phrase "a picture speaks thousand words" ?
did you shy away from the shameful & barbaric crackdown of Indian forces on the Kashmiri people?

I do agree with your comment though .. the case is Dismissed for Indian claim over Kashmir

Kashmir shall be free from Indian occupation in our lifetime

I pray that you live forever ;)
 
Pakistanis on this board claim that the entire Indian state of J&K should become part of their country. This is the maximalist position taken and of course, this means the largest possible territorial acquisition for that country.

In this thread, we are going to run a thought experiment.

Assume India decides to hand over the keys tomorrow morning, I would like to understand the plans for the state from the Pakistani perspective.

1. What do you intend to do about the non-muslim Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists who will come with the land? This is nearly 40% of the population of the state, about 4 million people.

They will demand equal rights under the constitution. How prepared are you to secularize Pakistan to accommodate these people and grant them first class citizenship?

2. If you decide to ask non-muslims to leave permanently, what kind of compensation are you prepared to give? My family, for example, has owned properties in Baramulla and Anantnag for countless generations. I cannot even contemplate in a rational mind that someone would ask me to leave my own house.

3. What kind of economic and social package will be put together for the new acquisition? Can you offer more economic/social benefits than India? If so, how?

Where will you find the monies to fund this?

This is of course, an impossible situation, and Indians and Pakistanis know this. But, since you guys insist so much, I want to know how much thought has actually gone into the situation from the Pakistani side beyond a bunch of shouted slogans.
 
firstly pakistani;s hope that this will come, this is the aim.


but you ask some good questions, they deserve some thought.


i would hope that they are treated as any other person, but this is an emotive issue.
 
Ok... this is a very controversial topic that you have raised @matoo, but given your disclaimer it may be a worthwhile discussion.

(1) The 40% non-muslim population will take its time to decline into oblivion as have the non-muslim population in Pakistan since independence. There are currently around 3% non-muslim in Pakistan.
Secularization is out of question since it is an Islamic state. Heck they can't even tolerate Ahmadis, how will they give equal rights to non-muslims.

(2) I doubt Pakistan will want to buy out your land, why would they pay a compensation for something that is their own. Either you live there or get out of the country.

(3) About the economic packages and constitutional rights I guess it will be identical to people of P0K these days... they will get some funds and money, but no representation in the govt.
 
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well lets first clear the indian concepts of dispute

1. India claims the entire region including parts of China and northern Pakistan as disputed J&K territory which is not true at all. Maharaja did not control all of that territory and Northern Pakistani region

2. They will demand equal rights under the constitution. How prepared are you to secularize Pakistan to accommodate these people and grant them first class citizenship?
Pakistan gives equal rights to people of all religion, race and gender. Only some religious bigots and Indian media claim otherwise. Sevral people of Hindu, Christian and Parsi faith are top business men class in Pakistan. An example would be Prince Aga Khan. Pakistan will not ask for any minorities to leave such did not even happen during the 47 partition though Nehru-Gandhi politics of duplicity did uproots thousands of muslims by gujrat style staged riots.
 
firstly pakistani;s hope that this will come, this is the aim.

but you ask some good questions, they deserve some thought.

i would hope that they are treated as any other person, but this is an emotive issue.

1. Pakistan reduced its Non-Muslim content from 25-28% down to 3% by the time of the Death of Mr. Jinnah in September 1948. You must appreciate that Mr. Jinnah was the Greatest Secular Leader in Undivided India.

2. Bangladesh Minority Polulation has been decreased from 28% in 1947 to 22% in 1951 and is now about 8%.

As such if Pakistan takes over Kashmir then the Monority Population will be reduced to 3% in ONE YEAR.

Please check with Pakistan Census 1951 and Pakistan as well as Bangladesh latest Census.
 
1. India claims the entire region including parts of China and northern Pakistan as disputed J&K territory which is not true at all. Maharaja did not control all of that territory and Northern Pakistani region


Instrument of Accession (Jammu and Kashmir) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Instrument of Accession is a legal document executed by Maharajah Hari Singh, ruler of the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir, on 26 October 1947. With the formal acceptance of the Governor General of India, it settled the question of the accession of the Jammu and Kashmir princely state (including Jammu, Kashmir, Northern Areas, Ladakh, Trans-Karakoram Tract and Aksai Chin) to the Dominion of India.
 
Concerning the non-Muslims... I would urge you to look at non-Muslims in the rest of Pakistan. Sikhs in Punjab have given many statements online and in international media that they face no problems. Hindus also live in peace. There are the terrorists but they are a common enemy they kill even Muslims so there isn't a problem of equality there.

As for economy and society they too will flourish look at Azad Kashmir compared to Indian captured Kashmir people are free to walk around carry out their religious activities. The biggest problem of Kashmiris in the Indian captured part say they're biggest problem is the Indian army and government, so by Pakistan talking over there will be none of that.
 
If they are 40% than Kashmir will be Indian.
I don't think it will be difficult for govt. to rig 20% votes or hold back 20% Muslims.
 
Pakistanis on this board claim that the entire Indian state of J&K should become part of their country. This is the maximalist position taken and of course, this means the largest possible territorial acquisition for that country.

In this thread, we are going to run a thought experiment.

Assume India decides to hand over the keys tomorrow morning, I would like to understand the plans for the state from the Pakistani perspective.
You just asked some silly questions here and remaining questions were really good
1. What do you intend to do about the non-muslim Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists who will come with the land? This is nearly 40% of the population of the state, about 4 million people.
Nothing, they will be part of Kashmir as they are living now....we have non-muslims living in Pakistan already....... and their % will slightly be risen if this happens

Most Welcome!
They will demand equal rights under the constitution. How prepared are you to secularize Pakistan to accommodate these people and grant them first class citizenship?
They already enjoy the equal rights and we are somewhat a secular state in my opinion. Pakistan never implemented Shariah Law in this country, so we have democracy & somewhat are secular upto certain extents
2. If you decide to ask non-muslims to leave permanently, what kind of compensation are you prepared to give? My family, for example, has owned properties in Baramulla and Anantnag for countless generations. I cannot even contemplate in a rational mind that someone would ask me to leave my own house.
Why will we? They are Kashmiris its their motherland, why we should ask anybody to leave their homes?
3. What kind of economic and social package will be put together for the new acquisition? Can you offer more economic/social benefits than India? If so, how?
lol, same as India does
Technically India is not a very rich country itself.... they have a very comparative GDP per capita comparing to Pakistan so whatever they can offer, we can offer too :)

Those billions and trillions of dollars of the total amount that the government owns does not mean everything really........if you compare the both nations, there is not a very huge difference.

For example if India has 100 rupees to spend for 50 peoples
and we have 50 rupees to spend on 25 peoples

Its technically samething..... bit of difference shouldn't matter here

Where will you find the monies to fund this?
Same as we find for other provinces of Pakistan
This is of course, an impossible situation, and Indians and Pakistanis know this. But, since you guys insist so much, I want to know how much thought has actually gone into the situation from the Pakistani side beyond a bunch of shouted slogans.

well if we are to find a peaceful solution of Kashmir, its all give and take system here.... Both countries will have to compromise and the newer map drawn in future should be acceptable to all parties. I don't think getting the whole of Kashmir will be in favour of India, Pakistan or even Justifiable for Kashmiris..... its going to be a division of border among common religion, interest and geographical backgrounds etc.....Lets wait for the sane leaders to rise in both nations
 
1. Pakistan reduced its Non-Muslim content from 25-28% down to 3% by the time of the Death of Mr. Jinnah in September 1948. You must appreciate that Mr. Jinnah was the Greatest Secular Leader in Undivided India.

2. Bangladesh Minority Polulation has been decreased from 28% in 1947 to 22% in 1951 and is now about 8%.

As such if Pakistan takes over Kashmir then the Monority Population will be reduced to 3% in ONE YEAR.

Please check with Pakistan Census 1951 and Pakistan as well as Bangladesh latest Census.


Provide links to support your claim.

Today's Pakistan lost Sikhs and Hindus in the following events:

1. Partition (1947-1948) - when many Sikhs and Hindus decided to leave for India. Many also decided to leave to India in 1948 especially Hindus of Sindh province.


2. 1971 - East Pakistan, now Bangladesh, always had a larger Hindu population than West Pakistan, now Pakistan. When East Pakistan separated from West Pakistan in 1971, the people of that region left with their land. Also the millions of Hindu Bengalis migrated to India in 1971.


So you cant compare the statistics from 1947 to today, a lot has happened in Pakistan since then.

Unlike in india, we never hear of riots against our minorities.


There are still millions of Hindus, Christians, Sikhs, and Parsis living in Pakistan.


There are still hundreds of Sikh Gurdwaras in Pakistan despite Pakistan being a Muslim majority country. If Pakistanis hated minorities we wouldve demolished those Sikh Gurdawaras and built Mosques in their place (like Indians demolished Babri Mosque and are now building a Hindu temple in its place).
 

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