Kashmir and Indian Army

[Bull]

100% true. Each time the Indian army/police F-up, they r only creating more opponents. And the Kashmiries have the right to avenge the killings. Just think about it, if someone is killed for the crime he didn't commit of course his loved ones would take action. So basically, since day 1 of the dispute, it kept adding up. The leaders of the 2 countries r talking peace but like it or not, the Indian side r not sincere.

I guess thats why so many are blasted in pakistan.

 

[Bull]

Ok I am sorry (I am not attempting to flame here but your attitude infuriates me)but that is the dumbest thing I have heard.......yes, well done you shot one guy and then burned down the house......that worked well in the occupied territories with the palestinians right? Or maybe in Vietnam....? Or in Iraq? wait.........no it didn't.............

Again if you torture someone....never complain when they do something nasty to one of your soldiers or policemen. You have lost the moral high ground and have no right to complain.
What about the women and children killed by "accident" killed in the name of your cause? Or do they get brushed under the carpet?

I have seen several ways of doing things in my time in the service and the methods you guys advocate simply DO NOT WORK

This is no kinder garden moral science class to lecture morals.

If you are saying it doesnt work, then do tell me what works.

They tried for 57 years to get India out of there, did they succeed? No they didnt. I consider that as a very fact of the proof that our "METHODS HAVE WORKED".

Now they are even willing to come and talk to us, a decade or two back we couldnt think about it.

 

[Bull]

My men went home safe, the men under my command never had a fatal incident and did their job well.

So if you think I am a devil then that's fine by me. Its far easier to live with that than to see pieces of your men even in your dreams.

Any method that helps in protecting the lives which are entrusted upon you, is fair.

 

[Bull]

Sword,

Because of a cowardly inhumane Few, The Indian Military is getting a bad name, I know Counter-Insurgency is a dirty task and it is like fighting with one hand tied behind ur back while the miltants have no code or law.,even Americans are doing very bad job of it. Dont you think we should review our methods of issuing gallentary awards or atleast bring Military Police into a more stricter vigilance and law execution.
What is happening in Kashmir lately is not reflecting well on India's image; Though it was Indian authourities themseleves who brought the BAD apples in their fray out in the open and arrested.

Whatever it maybe I dont agree with Civilians used as Human Shields, We are not the Hezbollah or the jehadi group, We are far above it and our Moral High ground has been the only reason the world has supported us and not pakistan.

Who the gives a damn abt moral ground?

And the world hasnt supported us bcoz of our moral ground , they just look who gives them more oppurtunity to do business.

There is more support for Indian now than a decade back, have you wondered why?

 

[Bull]

According to Indian Constitution and its various amendments, The Kashmiri citizen has more rights than me.
But for the army is it that the Kashmiri citizen is a lesser Citizen than me,therefore can be used as a human shield. Are you allowed to take that gamble, nobody gives army that right.
Or are you telling me that the jehadi's dont attack the kashmiri civilians, when the reality is that they terrorize the hell out of the kashmiri's with all the market bombs,rapes, executions and so on,

Let the first bomb blast hit Cochin ( and that surely will) and then we shall see what you have to say.

 

[Adux]

Let the first bomb blast hit Cochin ( and that surely will) and then we shall see what you have to say.

I could say rather a Pakistani than me or any other national, But I wont say rather a Kashmiri than me. He is an Indian as well as me.

 

[Bull]

I could say rather a Pakistani than me or any other national, But I wont say rather a Kashmiri than me. He is an Indian as well as me.

i didnt get it Adu, sorry.

 

[Adux]

Bull,

Are you telling me that you are ready to use a Kashmiri Indian citizen as human shield, put them on harms way to live peacefully in cochin. I dont agree with it, Even if it might save a few soldiers live, A soldier is there to protect the civilians at all cost and he has no right to gamble with their lives.

Our Army should be held accountable, We are not some Banana republic;
You know i aint no Peacenik, but i am not going to give a Full-License to my Army to play around with Kashmiri , Malaylee or Indian lives. A bomb in Srinagar, or any part of India is same as one in Kerala.

What I meant is, I dont care we kill hundereds of our enemy soldiers to save ONE of us, but I cannot agree with armed forces even put one civilian life in danger, They have no Right.

 

[Bull]

Bull,

Are you telling me that you are ready to use a Kashmiri Indian citizen as human shield, put them on harms way to live peacefully in cochin. I dont agree with it, Even if it might save a few soldiers live, A soldier is there to protect the civilians at all cost and he has no right to gamble with their lives.

Our Army should be held accountable, We are not some Banana republic;
but i am not going to give a Full-License to my Army to play around with Kashmiri , Malaylee or Indian lives. A bomb in Srinagar, or any part of India is same as one in Kerala.

What I meant is, I dont care we kill hundereds of our enemy soldiers to save ONE of us, but I cannot agree with armed forces even put one civilian life in danger, They have no Right.

You need to understand that no soldier likes to fight. When they lose somebody it hurts them as much as us, unlike some idiotic bolllywood movies.

Why do you think the soldiers have more responsibilty than us to clean up the mess that was created by politicians elected by civilians like you and me.

As LT said no civilian was killed or injured by giving them a ride. If they were injured, then i agree with you, the actions has to be investigated. But that was a successfull ploy, there were no IED blast against their convoys. So whose life was lost? nobodys, so peace !!!

Im no war monger, but at the same time i dont care if innocents life is put in danger if the whole situation can improve.

You know i aint no Peacenik,.

with those 3 rings in your finger, i guess you are not.

 

[sword9]

But for the army is it that the Kashmiri citizen is a lesser Citizen than me,therefore can be used as a human shield. Are you allowed to take that gamble, nobody gives army that right.

All citizens are equal, the difference is when the militants want to woo "you", then I will put that "you" in harms way take away the support that the militant wants. If I go to Assam then I will do the same. The army gets the right to use its tactics after the civilians have been silent, the govt has failed and the civilian police has screwed up.

The locals are aware if a road is mined, if the locals refuse to take a ride in your vehicle - that should be a red becon for you. Its quite simple and effective.

In the valley the militants don't give a damn, but in the border belts the militants dare not antagonize the locals, for fear of them turning against them and giving free info to the army. Most locals will not tell on them for fear of reprisals, and the militants don't want to give them a reason to turn overtly hostile. Thats the way it is.

 

[Adux]

Bull,

I hope you are aware when little children were killed when their boat capsized when they MARCOS/NAVY personnel gave them a joyride in the rubber boats. It was a criminal mistake on their part to put childeren on board without Life jackets.

LemonTree,

I do understand your point of view, But Imagine if a crazy assed jehadi does put an IED on purpose even after he knows there are lil kids being dropped you to school. What then?
I am a civilian, I am not underfire, cuz you watch it for me, I am indebted to you, I can only look from a civilian angle

 

[Adux]

All citizens are equal, the difference is when the militants want to woo "you", then I will put that "you" in harms way take away the support that the militant wants. If I go to Assam then I will do the same. The army gets the right to use its tactics after the civilians have been silent, the govt has failed and the civilian police has screwed up.

The locals are aware if a road is mined, if the locals refuse to take a ride in your vehicle - that should be a red becon for you. Its quite simple and effective.

In the valley the militants don't give a damn, but in the border belts the militants dare not antagonize the locals, for fear of them turning against them and giving free info to the army. Most locals will not tell on them for fear of reprisals, and the militants don't want to give them a reason to turn overtly hostile. Thats the way it is.

Those Rights have a limit. It doesnt involve endangering lives of citizens

 

[Bull]

Bull,

I hope you are aware when little children were killed when their boat capsized when they MARCOS/NAVY personnel gave them a joyride in the rubber boats. It was a criminal mistake on their part to put childeren on board without Life jackets.

That can be compared to one driving without a seat belt. It doesnt have a CI angle to it.

 

[Bull]

Those Rights have a limit. It doesnt involve endangering lives of citizens

Pls note the army is never trained to fight within its own population, its modus operandus is more skewed towards using heavy stuffs. the IA just recently came out with a doctorine on CI.

There are not enough bullet proof jackets provided to IA involved in CI, by we the civilians, and the ones issued weighs kilos i guess. The civilians working in MOD doesnt look into the basic and simple issues such as sanctioning leave, which puts the jawan under stress and forces the jawans to take their own lives.

Civilians doesnt have the right to say anything in this case, i shall say.

Neither does the civilians allow them to do it the way they want to, and when they try to do something within the "space" provided still we find faults with it.

Do you seriously believe in all these "good will gestures"? Good will gestures have been showered upon them by GOI, everything is heavily subsidised, hell even we are not allowed to buy land over there, i say what the ****?

Kashmiris are laid back, lazy guys, never expect them to do anything worthwhile. They are content in seeing the violence spread in the valley and are reconciled to the fact that its here to stay as it is forever.

 

[Bull]

Those Rights have a limit. It doesnt involve endangering lives of citizens

Which civilians are you speaking abt? The country never awakens unless a civilian is dead, so let them die, cruel i know but thats the fact.

Bomb blast in delhi/Mumbai politicians and media are out in numbers accusing ISI/Pakistan of doing it. IA camp is attacked, soldiers' families are mowed down how many mother fuckers come out protesting except for the internet warriors.