Karzai to ask for lethal weapons, won't mind Indian troops on Afghan soil

[Secur]

Living in the past is unwise. Lets be honest and solve the problems both nations are faced with today.

Very true !

Tell this to your so called Govt of Kabul and specially Mr.Karzai who himself assisted the Mujahideen , worked against the communists and was a CIA contractor back then and now . They churn out anti-Pakistan statements every week with some new ridiculous claim , blaming Islamabad for what-not . Propping up the issue of the settled Durand Line just to make things worse with Pakistan , not that it makes any difference to us . But if the Afghans themselves do not want better relations with Islamabad , there's nothing that we can do . Is it our fault that you Afghans have been fighting within yourselves for the last 200 years ?

We assisted you in your war against the comrades-in-Kabul , we sheltered millions of refugees from your country and do it till this day , every supply to your country goes through Pakistan duty-free from our ports , we even allowed the Indians to provide transit trade , we have committed money for development of your country , we have offered to train your forces and we have assisted you in the negotiations with militants ! What more is it that you want ?

As I said in my first post on this thread , cozying up with enemies of Pakistan will only deteriorate the relations and worsen the situation in your country . Indian presence in Afghanistan isn't acceptable to us .

 

[That Guy]

What do you mean by losing face? as Qatar which is largely seen as a pro western country is also conducting talks with the Taliban and the US is well aware about this.

There was a recent article from last week in the Times of India about this matter I will try finding it and post it here if I can.

India is no friend of the Taliban but having no form of communication open with some pockets of the regime would in my view be a mistake.

As the old saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Taliban also are human beings they have the same weakness as the rest of us mortals and are susceptible to bribery, India having economic interest in the country must make sure its vital strategic assets are protected by any cost.

You're comparing apples and oranges, Qatar is doing so openly and with US support. India is doing so secretly.

You're assuming to know what is best for India, as if you were in charge of nation and knew all of it's secrets.

Let's take a different approach to this, shall we? India may have some sort of contact (which I doubt), but let's say they do, now having open communication would be a bad thing for them, as it would jeopardize their relationship with the ANA and Afghan gov. They'd see it as India legitimizing the Taliban, and push the Afghan gov towards Pakistan.

Keeping your enemies close will get you killed, that saying has made no sense to me, so I take anyone who says it with a large amount of skepticism.

What regime? The Taliban don't have any form of real governance in the nation, besides just controlling land and taxing people.

Finally, if you can find the link, I would appreciate it.

 

[Kavin]

Anyways, Karzai has always requested lethal military aid to Afghanistan from India. India has always been reluctant, as they don't want to antagonize Pakistan, the simple reason being that if even one of those pieces of equipment falls into militant hands (as a lot of ANA hardware tend to get sold off on the black market by corrupt ANA soldiers), Pakistan can accuse them of sponsoring terrorists and point out "evidence" to prove their claim.

On the other hand, nothing India does is in the interest of Pakistan's future, no matter what anyone of those political and diplomatic fools claim. If India had a chance, it would break Pakistan into little pieces, but the feeling is mutual, so...yeah.... :|

Very good & balanced post. It's surprising me why most of members (even senior mod & webmaster) start calculating "(a+b)²=a²+b².." when there is no 'a' (requisition for indian troop presense by AF) or 'b' (Indian consideration of sending troop to AF)?

 

[Digital Soldier]

I was just refuting your alternate history scenarios in which " Taliban were all Pakistani nationals " and they had " no local support in Afghanistan " and " the new versions of Taliban " thing with ' cold hard bitter facts showing the reality on ground ' and a dose of reality . That is it .

By the way , I am still waiting for the respectful link , does it exist ?

In fact your whole army is Taliban-minded fighters hiding in uniform. your SSG was fighting against Northern Alliance alongside Taliban during Taliban regimen. Thousands were slaughtered in the mountains of north.
Taliban is a Pakistani phenomenon. Its a way for Pakistan to survive, Its in Pakistan's national interest to have good relations with Taliban, as your Hamid Gul said once.
Accept this simple fact instead arguing like a foool.

 

[BeyondHeretic]

Israel weapons in the hand of afghans gives the Taliban the edge , there's a purpose to this , think about it

 

[muse]

Two solutions for Afghanistan.

1. Pakistan should annex the Pashtun majority parts while Tajik and Uzbeck majorities should be encouraged to join their respective countries.

2. Pakistan should build a giant fence on Af-Pak border manned by automatic guns shooting any intruder in range.

Tajik, Uzbek, Hazara, Aimak, Arab and Pashai have as much right to Pakistani government services and fruits of a Palistani economy open to participation by all ---- Pashtun in Afghanistan are not clamoring for Pakistan to annex areas in which they live nor is any sane person in the Pakistan government going to give this idea serious thought.

It will be interesting to hear the views of the Chinese and the Russe, they in turn would be interested to see how the US wants to play the Iranian

 

[That Guy]

Very good & balanced post. It's surprising me why most of members (even senior mod & webmaster) start calculating "(a+b)²=a²+b².." when there is no 'a' (requisition for indian troop presense by AF) or 'b' (Indian consideration of sending troop to AF)?

Thank you, unfortunately, I have to agree, some of the senior members and even a few so called "think tanks" (not going to name anyone here, already got in trouble for that) tend to have a one sided view on here.

I try and be balanced when it comes to these issues, I consider it a disservice to people's intelligence by being one sided, but you know how people on both sides are (whether Indian or Pakistani), and I always get beaten on by people who always claim I'm bias or use straw-man arguments

In fact your whole army is Taliban-minded fighters hiding in uniform. your SSG was fighting against Northern Alliance alongside Taliban during Taliban regimen. Thousands were slaughtered in the mountains of north.
Taliban is a Pakistani phenomenon. Its a way for Pakistan to survive, Its in Pakistan's national interest to have good relations with Taliban, as your Hamid Gul said once.
Accept this simple fact instead arguing like a foool.

Wow, what a revisionist view you have. I have to admire your imagination, it's quite something.

Pakistan supported the Taliban, yes, but it is no longer in Pakistan's interest to support them.

The Taliban aren't stupid, they won't forget about the assistance that Pakistan gave NATO, and that will be held against them.

I've said it before many times, no matter who wins in Afghanistan, Pakistan loses.

 

[Secur]

abe chup kar, you think you are Israel.we can do anything we want in our country.

We respect Israel more then you pak satan. Even if Israel want to come we will let them, its our choice.

So , your refugees in Pakistan parents never taught you any manners , kiddo . Why quote my post out of context when I actually said " Indian presence in Afghanistan is not acceptable to us " ? . Yeah , delude yourself about doing anything you like when majority of your country is still controlled by militants and there exists no Govt with any power .

@Armstrong @muse @FaujHistorian @Hyperion The funeral of the Muslim Ummah concept comes to mind , what say you guys ?

 

[Secur]

Taliban is a Pakistani phenomenon. Its a way for Pakistan to survive, Its in Pakistan's national interest to have good relations with Taliban, as your Hamid Gul said once.
Accept this simple fact instead arguing like a foool.

You have a pathetic habit of diverting the debate , first of all , I want that respectful link you rambled from your first post here about the article lying about the military request ?

Second , Taliban emerged in Afghanistan if you read your own history properly , we supported them just because other countries like India and Iran were supporting Northern Alliance and other Shia groups , all fought for their interests , it just happened that ours won . So , no need to play " angel angel " with me , here . When you cant control the country , somebody else will try to . Something , you Afghans haven't learned for the last 200 years .

Accept that you are a pathological liar who cant back up his claims with sources and tries to argue against the sun and when all fails , start the same " autobot " lecture about Taliban and Pakistan . I may reciprocate in kind , maybe .

 

[muse]

When you cant control the country , somebody else will try to . Something , you Afghans haven't learned for the last 200 years . .

That could be Pakistan as well, couldn't it? Digital Soldier may be more angry than rational in his post, but lets look at this beyond, us vs them, because as you can see, sometimes they are the same - wear are a peoples that agreed to lose a majority of it country to satisfy what exactly?? And we are a peoples who are not united in condemning sectarian hate organizations, heck our own army nurtured and created those organizations.

Look, lets for arguments sake say that it is may 2015, the most US and NATO are gone, and consensus is the US with regard to paying for a ANA is fraying -- and that increasingly Afghanistan is being run by war lords and the idea of Afghanistan as a state is one that is increasingly difficult to imagine, the ANA suffer many desertions and defeats

Quick question -- What do you imagine would be going on in Pakistan at the same time?????????????? Will Jihad fever have died down? Will sectarianism die down? Will international financial institutions be willing to bail out our non-tax paying behinds?? And will the so called Pakistan army really be willing to protect you, yes, specifically, you??

So, lets give Digiotal a wide berth, lets look at this less nationalistically and with more of preventative bent.

 

[Parul]

India offers more aid for Afghanistan
India announces more training and reconstruction aid, as Afghan president seeks help ahead of withdrawal of NATO troops.

India has offered to provide more training and reconstruction aid for Afghanistan as most international troops prepare to withdraw next year.

President Pranab Mukherjee told visiting Afghan President Hamid Karzai that India was proud to help, a statement from Mukherjee's office said on Tuesday.

"India is prepared to increase bilateral contribution to institution-building, training and equipment to the extent India can," Mukherjee said. The statement did not say whether it would include military aid.

Aimal Faizi, Karzai’s spokesperson, earlier said that Afghanistan would ask for Indian help in the strengthening of its security forces ahead of the withdrawal of international forces.

Karzai also held talks with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh later on Tuesday.

"I think we should respond positively to Afghan requests for assistance to build the Afghan security forces," former Indian Ambassador to Afghanistan, Vivek Katju, told Al Jazeera from New Delhi.

"We already have a process of training the Afghan forces in India that can be stepped up, and if the Afghans require equipment to develop their capabilities... we should also have a positive response."

Strategic partnership

A 2011 strategic partnership agreement between the two countries includes Indian training of Afghan security forces. Small batches of Afghan soldiers are undergoing training at Indian military schools.

India has invested more than $2bn in Afghan infrastructure, including highways and hospitals and rural electricity projects. It is also helping the Afghan government rebuild its police forces, judiciary and diplomatic services.

New Delhi is hoping to gain some influence in the country after 2014, when Afghan forces are to become responsible for the entire country's security.

As NATO troops prepare to withdraw, India fears the possibility of the country falling into the hands of a Taliban-led regime, endangering many of India's interests there.

India, Afghanistan and Iran have been discussing how best to utilise the southeastern Iranian port of Chahbahar and develop road and rail links from there to Afghanistan.

For India, the shortest and most economical route for sending supplies to Afghanistan would be by road through Pakistan. But Pakistan, India's bitter rival, has denied New Delhi road access to Kabul, making the route through Iran all the more significant.

Karzai, who earned his college degree in India, has visited New Delhi more than a half dozen times in the past few years.

 

[Jzaib]

Indian troops in afghanistan, Good for US now when ever we have to go hunting will will just cross border and go in Afghanistan for hunting ..

On a serious note ..i think india is smart enough , they will not move troops in Afghanistan.. But they can support them and influence them with dollars ..that is much better for India

 

[Secur]

That could be Pakistan as well, couldn't it? Digital Soldier may be more angry than rational in his post, but lets look at this beyond, us vs them, because as you can see, sometimes they are the same - wear are a peoples that agreed to lose a majority of it country to satisfy what exactly?? And we are a peoples who are not united in condemning sectarian hate organizations, heck our own army nurtured and created those organizations.

Look, lets for arguments sake say that it is may 2015, the most US and NATO are gone, and consensus is the US with regard to paying for a ANA is fraying -- and that increasingly Afghanistan is being run by war lords and the idea of Afghanistan as a state is one that is increasingly difficult to imagine, the ANA suffer many desertions and defeats

Quick question -- What do you imagine would be going on in Pakistan at the same time?????????????? Will Jihad fever have died down? Will sectarianism die down? Will international financial institutions be willing to bail out our non-tax paying behinds?? And will the so called Pakistan army really be willing to protect you, yes, specifically, you??

So, lets give Digiotal a wide berth, lets look at this less nationalistically and with more of preventative bent.

That is true for all countries , mate . Just more true for decades for Afghanistan . I do not care about his state of mind or emotional banter about Pakistan , but I dislike very much these alternate histories . Well , that has been discussed to death before , muse , why we lost East Pakistan ? There are differing opinions but none of them discount the Govt of Pakistan back then in any way . It sometimes happens , that we are left with no choice , so after the Americans abandoned the Afghanistan after Soviet defeat , we had to manage that mess and it turned messy with other players poking their nose in . Caught between the devil and deep sea , we played for our interests , the same as India and Iran did . Do you believe that Dostam was an angel who could lead the Afghans to freedom , had he lived ? No , he was just another warlord . The same dilemma that Musharraf faced after 9/11 .

Well the current plans are the same , there's no need to make it for argument's sake but still . I see a future bleak for Afghanistan with the fight turning towards the Northern Safehouses and the same situation being repeated again .

Hard to predict , mate , very hard . The fight can turn elsewhere towards other races in Afghanistan or return back to Kashmir or worst of all affect Pakistan . I am seriously not seeing anything very promising for my country but for now , we have nothing to lose if you want to talk that way . The army's there and its controlling the situation very well at the moment in the militant infested areas , a few hit and run are no indicator of control for Taliban .

 

[muse]

T I dislike very much these alternate histories . Well , that has been discussed to death before , muse , why we lost East Pakistan ? There are differing opinions but none of them discount the Govt of Pakistan back then in any way . It sometimes happens , that we are left with no choice , so after the Americans abandoned the Afghanistan after Soviet defeat , we had to manage that mess and it turned messy with other players poking their nose in . Caught between the devil and deep sea , we played for our interests , the same as India and Iran did . Do you believe that Dostam was an angel who could lead the Afghans to freedom , had he lived ? No , he was just another warlord . The same dilemma that Musharraf faced after 9/11 .

Well the current plans are the same , there's no need to make it for argument's sake but still . I see a future bleak for Afghanistan with the fight turning towards the Northern Safehouses and the same situation being repeated again .

Hard to predict , mate , very hard . The fight can turn elsewhere towards other races in Afghanistan or return back to Kashmir or worst of all affect Pakistan . I am seriously not seeing anything very promising for my country but for now , we have nothing to lose if you want to talk that way . The army's there and its controlling the situation very well at the moment in the militant infested areas , a few hit and run are no indicator of control for Taliban .

Recall you told Digital that Afghans "did not learn" -- Are we better? From what you have written, it seems that it has all been one disaster to another, how very much like Afghanistan?

I realize that on this forum, one has to be more Catholic than the Pope, when it comes to the so called Pakistan army, for my money it is the root of all evil in Pakistan, (by the way you will see that expressing the idea that the Pakistan Army is the root of evil in Pakistan, will go the way of the Dodo) -- Why is it the root of evil? Because it has become the ****** army, it is no longer loyal to any notion other than a radical Wahabized, Arabized, Pakistan -- and they will not defend you, unless you are their tyoe of people in which case you don't need defending (just ask ANP)

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, this unbalanced Karzai playing rogue - What's he going to get from the Indian, other than thanks for coming? Not much, actually nothing. look for noises making nice to the Iranians next.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Karzai must be asking for lethal weapons that india used against China in DBO to bulldoze their own bunkers....LOL hahahaha