Karzai admits to sheltering Baloch Terrorists

[Peshwa]

There is no evidence that Pakistan is supporting the Afghan Taliban materially

Agreed...I take the material part back....Though as with Afghanistan providing Shelter to terrorists, so is Pakistan..

See below.

. Boucher acknowledged, however, that some Pakistani authorities also turned a blind eye to infiltrators. He said we needed to keep reminding them of their responsibilities. Karzai responded that we needed to keep reminding them to give up the Pakistani dream of a larger Islamic Pakistani Emirate.. .

and the only place the Afghan Taliban can shelter in Pakistan is primarily North Waziristan. Regarding NW, the cables, and the statements from the Pakistani military, indicate that they recognize NW as a threat, not just to Afghanistan, but to Pakistan as well. Military officials have said that the majority of terrorist attacks in Pakistan today are in fact being directed from NW. But the military has also argued that it has resource constraints and political and public consensus issues it has to deal with before it launches an operation in NW.

Well the same exists for Karzai based on the cables who consider the Bugti's to be Afghan nobility that prevents them from directly tackling them or simply turning them over to Pakistan fearing a backlash.

In addition, if you consider Pakistanis being short on resources and political will to deal with the Baluchi immigrants, then the same exists 10 folds for the Afghans who pretty much have a non-existant army and law enforcement, let alone politicians...

I think Pakistan being a much more stable nation compared to Afg has to act more responsibly

Also, while Karzai is directly admitting to sheltering Baluch insurgents/terrorists and refusing to hand them over, there is nothing, so far, from the Pakistani side indicating that Mullah Omar is similarly kept in some sort of 'protective custody'.

Highly speculative on your part....

Nowhere do the leaks mention that the Bugtis residing in Afg are terrorists. In fact the only mention Karzai makes are that they take shelter in Afg, but there is no mention of terrorist activities being carried out by these people directly or indirectly. You're obviously adding your own mix to this story.

Pakistans inability to deal with the Taliban in NW while also preventing the NATO forces from engaging with them is as good as protecting them which addresses the bolded part.

See below

Assistant Secretary Boucher asked Karzai if he knew where Bugti was. Karzai responded that a lot of Bugtis come to Afghanistan. In fact, over 200, with their sons and money, have come. Karzai said he advised them to go the United Nations for asylum, but many were frightened and are in hiding. The United Nations declined to deal with the issue, considering it too sensitive. Karzai said he was "not interested in having them in Afghanistan as it was too much trouble."

There is definitely a parallel between Pakistan sheltering AT for their own strategic needs and Afg doing the same with Bugtis....based on the Wikileaks

However there exists no proof that Bugtis are being armed and trained in Afg to carry out attacks in Pak...esp with India's involvement.

 

[Peshwa]

Pakistanis proudly accept and defend that "it is their right to interfere in Kashmir"..Why should Indians not reciprocate?

Because we have conventional superiority....

Pakistan uses proxies only because it lacks the ability to resolve Kashmir militarily....

Besides, if we stoop down to sponsoring terrorism, then we also lose the respect we have from the world as a responsible power...

Do you want India to be labelled a "Terrorist epicenter?"

I for one prefer not to be anywhere close to "terrorism" which according to me will be the root cause of the next WW (God forbid)

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistan doesnt sponsor or support terrorism

 

[SMC]

Because we have conventional superiority....

Pakistan uses proxies only because it lacks the ability to resolve Kashmir militarily....

Besides, if we stoop down to sponsoring terrorism, then we also lose the respect we have from the world as a responsible power...

Do you want India to be labelled a "Terrorist epicenter?"

I for one prefer not to be anywhere close to "terrorism" which according to me will be the root cause of the next WW (God forbid)

But India has used proxies in the past, no?

 

[Peshwa]

yup.....and for every action, there is an equal and opposite REACTION

Spot on....

Action: Creation of Mujahideen
REACTION: Mujahideen become the Taliban and attack their own masters

Action: Radicalize civilians through Madrasas to bleed your neighbors
REACTION: Radicalized civilians bleed their own country

Action: We shall eat grass for a hundred years to make a nuclear bomb
REACTION:Well....you know where Im going with this

 

[Dance]

Spot on....

Action: Creation of Mujahideen
REACTION: Mujahideen become the Taliban and attack their own masters

Action: Radicalize civilians through Madrasas to bleed your neighbors
REACTION: Radicalized civilians bleed their own country

Action: We shall eat grass for a hundred years to make a nuclear bomb
REACTION:Well....you know where Im going with this

No please explain where you're going with that one

 

[SMC]

You mean Pakistanis are eating grass? Well considering the poverty rate of Pakistan and India, if Pakistanis are eating grass, I am not sure what Indians are eating.

 

[Peshwa]

But India has used proxies in the past, no?

Yep it has....no doubt...

Though unlike the TTP and Taliban that have become a headache to Pakistan and the world alike,
Indian proxies Mukti Bahini and LTTE fizzled out or were eliminated.....

Pakistan even though being troubled by an extremist ideology internally continues to support an element of the same.....

India quit support of the LTTE post Rajiv Gandhi assasination...we learned our lesson...

The question is...has Pakistan learned from its mistakes?

 

[SMC]

Yep it has....no doubt...

Though unlike the TTP and Taliban that have become a headache to Pakistan and the world alike,
Indian proxies Mukti Bahini and LTTE fizzled out or were eliminated.....

Pakistan even though being troubled by an extremist ideology internally continues to support an element of the same.....

India quit support of the LTTE post Rajiv Gandhi assasination...we learned our lesson...

The question is...has Pakistan learned from its mistakes?

Sorry dude, but that's bullshit. Here's why.

India merely chose to quit supporting LTTE because it was no longer in its interests to do that. Not because India for some reason just realized overnight that supporting terrorists is a bad thing.

Now as far as Pakistan is concerned, perhaps you need to look at the operations in Swat, Bajaur, Orakzai, SW, Khyber, Kurram, etc. I know, I know, operations that are against anti-Pakistani militants don't count.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

India quit support of the LTTE post Rajiv Gandhi assasination...we learned our lesson..

bunch of bullshyte if you ask me.......

 

[Dance]

You mean Pakistanis are eating grass? Well considering the poverty rate of Pakistan and India, if Pakistanis are eating grass, I am not sure what Indians are eating.

Exactly...I was thinking: did he really just bring up poverty in Pakistan when poverty is a million times worse in india

 

[Peshwa]

You mean Pakistanis are eating grass? Well considering the poverty rate of Pakistan and India, if Pakistanis are eating grass, I am not sure what Indians are eating.

Well Wikileaks did mention that Pakistan has the fastest growing nuclear programs currently....

It is also true that Pakistan faces a food and water shortage....

So having the possession of nukes as a deterrant..which is what you guys have been saying all along....is there really a need for this acceleration?
So am I wrong to say that funds in dire times such as these are being spent on the bomb while your population literally could be eating grass?

No need to bring India into this.....The statement was a direct quote from one of your leaders...

And I admit...there are millions of Indian poor....as there are in Pakistan....both due to corruption....

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

when the indian run out of things to say, or valid arguments --they resort to such tactics

no new news here

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So am I wrong to say that funds in dire times such as these are being spent on the bomb while your population literally could be eating grass?

you talk with such conviction and authority?

how do you know those fundings were done prior to the floods?

where are you getting your info, or are you speculating?

And I admit...there are millions of Indian poor....as there are in Pakistan....both due to corruption....

cant really argue with that....and what's worse --- some people mock the situation and plight of poor people


how manly and honourable

 

[SMC]

Well Wikileaks did mention that Pakistan has the fastest growing nuclear programs currently....

But how is that relevant? i.e. for what you said to be true, we need to having nukes AND be eating grass. One condition is not satisfied.

It is also true that Pakistan faces a food and water shortage....

Yes, but those are because of other reasons, not because of we have nukes. And the situation is not as dire. I think you'll find that Pakistan despite having nukes tends to keep its population well fed.

So having the possession of nukes as a deterrant..which is what you guys have been saying all along....is there really a need for this acceleration?
So am I wrong to say that funds in dire times such as these are being spent on the bomb while your population literally could be eating grass?

No need to bring India into this.....The statement was a direct quote from one of your leaders...

And I admit...there are millions of Indian poor....as there are in Pakistan....both due to corruption....

The reason why I brought in India is because you obviously would not believe that Indians are eating grass. Since the poverty rate in Pakistan is better, and Pakistan has better wealth distribution, obviously the situation in Pakistan has to be better.

Now as far as spending money on nukes is concerned, we are not spending any extravagant money. 4% of our GDP goes to military purposes, same as the US.