Karrar MBT l Updates, News & Discussion

[SOHEIL]

Some HD screenshots:





&

This is NOT 2a46m-5 !!!

This is the same old T72 cannon !

 

[Fafnir]

Some HD screenshots:

View attachment 384029 View attachment 384030 View attachment 384031 View attachment 384032 View attachment 384033

View attachment 384034 View attachment 384035

&

View attachment 384040
View attachment 384041

This is NOT 2a46m-5 !!!

This is the same old T72 cannon !

I wouldnt be so sure of that,as we can see in this pic the section youve circled looks virtually the same in the -5 as it does the original 2a46m,one of the few visible differences according to the diagrams are the fitting of a barrel droop measuring system,now the t90ms has this and karrar doesnt as yet,at least not on the two examples we`ve seen so far,however that by itself isnt conclusive as karrar has its own iranian built/designed fcs.So I think at the moment the jury is still out on this,it could be the -5 or it may not be only time will tell.

Heres a picture of the -5[on the right],interestingly it doesnt have a barrel droop system installed

 

[OldTwilight]

This is NOT 2a46m-5 !!!

This is the same old T72 cannon !

Should we be happy about this !?

 

[SOHEIL]

 

[Fafnir]

Should we be happy about this !?

No,quite the opposite in fact,it would mean that karrar was still using the same gun as irans 20-25 y/o t72s,this could also mean its very likely using the same old t72 auto loader and the mid 80s "mango" apfsds rounds which are very long in the tooth,basically a 21st century tank armed with a cold war gun firing cold war ammo.Not an ideal situation.

 

[arashkamangir]

Some HD screenshots:

View attachment 384029 View attachment 384030 View attachment 384031 View attachment 384032 View attachment 384033

View attachment 384034 View attachment 384035

&

View attachment 384040
View attachment 384041

This is NOT 2a46m-5 !!!

This is the same old T72 cannon !

This could be a footage from its gradual development...There is inconsistency in what the videos show because they are mixing in footages from different develoent phases ....

 

[SOHEIL]

This could be a footage from its gradual development...There is inconsistency in what the videos show because they are mixing in footages from different develoent phases ....

But from this footage people raised the M-5 idea !!!

 

[arashkamangir]

2a46m-5 in series production

See, there are inconsistency in footage. Also note that some footages in the video are demonstrated dirty non new hardware mixed with footage of new hardware. Anyways, somebody has to monitor what footage is thrown into videos, they are always confusing and misleading and I don't think they are by design. I think they video editors are just flat out incompetent.

 

[masud]

IRAN should use the new t-14 armata cannon as like t-90M, rather then this old cannon.
.

 

[PeeD]

Some of us made a mistake. We thought that the 2A46M-5 is a incremental redesign of the 2A46M, while the baseline 2A46M looks from outside like the -5. Its just the -4 which has that outside difference.

Hence the gun is likely just a 2A46M and this starts to makes sense and cuts the Russian link in the Karrar.

The Karrar has just the baseline 2A46M which Iran built for the T-72S.

 

[Arminkh]

@eagle2007

These estimates are based on reports which I haven't at hand back from the early 2000s about the license production rate of the T-72S which would have taken 20 years to produce the license granted 1000 copies.

I base my estimate also on the production line which apparently produces 4 tanks simultaneously. If we assume a turnaround time of one month, we get ~50 tanks a year. I expect the line to be extended because they are not bound to a license and by now almost all subsystems are produced locally.
Iran has a good timing, back in the 2000s and more so in the 90s prices for thermal imaginers an sight systems where insanely high, now that the technology is mature and easily available, Iran can get performance of the best TI sights of the 2000s at a friction of the price and without any procurement problems.
Lets see where its engines come from, if these are also produced locally I stick with my 500k$ a copy cost estimate (means 8 Karrars for 1 M1A2). Bottle neck remains the ammunition... Lets see what they show in that field in future.

@Fafnir

I made the same mistake as you, connected the T-90SM with the -5 gun and thought its a 2012 product. No, it has been already used by the T-90S and has been put into production in 2005. Hence as the T-72S license production was ongoing in 2005, its possible that the lastest version of the gun was requested by Iran, not only due to higher performance but also because new versions ar often easier to manufacture and hence cheaper in production.

This is to assume that DIO facilities will be the only assembly source for this tank. However, if DIO decide to bring in the private sector, they can hugely bump up the production.

For example, Iran Khodro or Saipa heavy industries can easily alter their bus production lines to produce the hules and chassis of this beast in thousands per year.

However, I don't know how fast they can produce the gun and rest of the armament.

Some of us made a mistake. We thought that the 2A46M-5 is a incremental redesign of the 2A46M, while the baseline 2A46M looks from outside like the -5. Its just the -4 which has that outside difference.

Hence the gun is likely just a 2A46M and this starts to makes sense and cuts the Russian link in the Karrar.

The Karrar has just the baseline 2A46M which Iran built for the T-72S.

It is using T-72's gun:

http://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/700890/10-ویژگی-مهم-و-برجسته-تانک-کرار-نماد-جدید-اقتدار-نیروهای-مسلح

I don't think this is something to feel bad about. Comparing to what Iran used to have (T-72) and this upgrade, we are ending up with a more capable tank. Now it may not be on par with top of the line out there but is is cheap and can be produced in large numbers under direct control of Iran. So I still think it is a very good achievement.

 

[VEVAK]

I wouldnt be so sure of that,as we can see in this pic the section youve circled looks virtually the same in the -5 as it does the original 2a46m,one of the few visible differences according to the diagrams are the fitting of a barrel droop measuring system,now the t90ms has this and karrar doesnt as yet,at least not on the two examples we`ve seen so far,however that by itself isnt conclusive as karrar has its own iranian built/designed fcs.So I think at the moment the jury is still out on this,it could be the -5 or it may not be only time will tell.

Heres a picture of the -5[on the right],interestingly it doesnt have a barrel droop system installed

It's the same cannon as the T-72's produced by Iran in the past!
Go 5:15 into the video! It's the same cannon!

 

[arashkamangir]

It's the same cannon as the T-72's produced by Iran in the past!
Go 5:15 into the video! It's the same cannon!

well this is a disappointment though, if they push for this, they could develop a better replacement sometime down the road.

 

[OldTwilight]

It is using T-72's gun:

http://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/700890/10-ویژگی-مهم-و-برجسته-تانک-کرار-نماد-جدید-اقتدار-نیروهای-مسلح

I don't think this is something to feel bad about. Comparing to what Iran used to have (T-72) and this upgrade, we are ending up with a more capable tank. Now it may not be on par with top of the line out there but is is cheap and can be produced in large numbers under direct control of Iran. So I still think it is a very good achievement.

We are low in quantity as well , we need at least more than 2500 tanks just for keeping our country safe ...

next phase we should make a tank with just two crew member ...

well this is a disappointment though, if they push for this, they could develop a better replacement sometime down the road.

we just spend 17 billions dollars on our both Army and Irgc and we have to pay for war in Syria as well ... you can't except USA level spending on military ( and even USA buys the Canon from Germany ) ...

 

[VEVAK]

well this is a disappointment though, if they push for this, they could develop a better replacement sometime down the road.

It's not disappointing! What's important is the advanced electro optics, sensors, communication systems, digitalization of all systems, a faster auto loader, fast information processing power, more advanced added armor, active protection system, data link,...

The day's were the tanks cannon mattered are over! In 2003 despite having the advanced Abrams tanks the biggest killer of Iraqi tanks were ATGM's! so the T-72 cannon is more than sufficient as long as it's backed by advanced electronics