Karnataka hijab verdict; implications all over the islamic world

[aryadravida]

The Muslims of india are doing a great favour to the women of islamic world who are protesting against burkha and hijab...I am pretty sure Supreme Court will also deliver the same judgement as karnataka high court as there is no explicit mention of headscarf or burkha in quran. Karnataka high court gave some good citations to show how it came to the conclusion. Supreme court will do even deeper search and present the facts as they are...
This judgement will be quoted by liberals all across the world supporting their view that burkha or hijab doesnt form basic tenets of islam...India being the world's biggest democracy,the words spoken by its top court has a lot of value.

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments except to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire, or children who are still unaware of women’s nakedness. Let them not stomp their feet, drawing attention to their hidden adornments. Turn to Allah in repentance all together, O believers, so that you may be successful. quran 24:31

I noticed some pakistani posters are saying that how can pagan judges decide what constitutes essential and what is not in Islam...only ulema can do so it seems. But quran says that its message is clear and perfect...

Alif-Lãm-Ra. ˹This is˺ a Book whose verses are well perfected and then fully explained. ˹It is˺ from the One ˹Who is˺ All-Wise, All-Aware.(quran 11:1)

And if someone says that only muslim scholars can understand quran they are going against word of allah.
And those people who are interpreting quranic verses to their convenience ,Allah says in Quran, are deviated.

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them(Quran 3:7)

Beware pakistani posters...I know You will pounce on me and try to bring all kinds of hadees or material outside quran to prove that burkha and hijab are essential for muslim women(or misinterpret that quranic verse to suit their narrative like deviators mentioned in quran)...but before refuting me ,think twice...according to your belief you will stand in front of allah one day...you have to answer him in case you misinterpret quranic verses with the sole intention of refuting me.

 

[Vapnope]

This ruling will be implemented in India and India only as this issue has been discussed in Islamic world and continues to be a topic. Like in another thread i pointed out that there are different school of thoughts in Islamic world that continue to debate about hijab/niqab/duppatta/scarf hence everyone continues to stick to their interpretation and Indian court ruling has no effect on those interpretations.

 

[aryadravida]

there are different school of thoughts in Islamic world

Precisely the reason why Indian court's decision can be called perfect as 2 out of the 3 judges are non muslims...they dont hold any bias towards any school of thought....all they see is quran...scholars of different fiqh in islam naturally take sides .

 

[Vapnope]

Precisely the reason why Indian court's decision can be called perfect as 2 out of the 3 judges are non muslims...they dont hold any bias towards any school of thought....all they see is quran...scholars of different fiqh in islam naturally take sides .

Perfect for Indians not for anyone outside of it and i don't mean it in a condescending way. The muslim judge would be considered an Indian judge with no formal education in religious matters and not a scholar to be followed hence my earlier comment that this ruling won't change a thing in Islamic jurisprudence.

 

[TheSolution]

Lol... no one will look to Indian court rulings for anything Islamic related.

You have no understanding of Islam or Muslims if you think this is the case.

The only references ever are Islamic scholars and Islamic text. Your courts mean nothing.

 

[Asimzranger]

REPORTED

 

[Asimzranger]

how does drawing cloak over your body mean covering face or head?moreover you have smartly taken a translation which suits your narrative.
Muhammad Sarwar Translation: Prophet, tell your wives, daughters, and the wives of the believers to cover their bosoms and breasts. This will make them distinguishable from others and protect them from being annoyed. God is All-forgiving and All-merciful.

i dont want to engage with a hindu over my religion you are being reported get out

 

[I.R.A]

Beware pakistani posters...I know You will pounce on me and try to bring all kinds of hadees or material outside quran to prove that burkha and hijab are essential for muslim women(or misinterpret that quranic verse to suit their narrative like deviators mentioned in quran)...but before refuting me ,think twice...according to your belief you will stand in front of allah one day...you have to answer him in case you misinterpret quranic verses with the sole intention of refuting me.

Is it prohibited in Quran? This hijab and burka?

 

[aryadravida]

Is it prohibited in Quran? This hijab and burka?

It's not prohibited nor is it prescribed....the girls with support of some muslim fundamentalist groups wanted to create chaos in society with the pretext of this hijab....and to show india in a bad light...
In india many colleges have prescribed uniform and it is mandatory for everyone to wear that uniform...no one regardless of their religion is allowed to flaunt religious symbols...crores of muslim girls all across india sit in classes without hijab ....the argument these girls made was hijab was essential part of islam and therefore they must be allowed to wear it.
Court heard their arguments and gave out a judgement saying it is not essential...now these islamists are crying from the roof top that the court gave an unfair judgement...all they have to do is present a verse from quran to prove what they are saying is right...instead they have become a source of animosity and hatred in the country.
They are not doing any favour to their community....there may come a time when people think twice before employing muslims in their offices as they create nuisance for every trivial thing...when you are living in a diverse country like india sometimes we have to make some compromises...not just muslims...all religious, and linguistic groups...only then can there be a peaceful coexistence.

There was no BJP in karnataka a few years ago(nor in any other southern state)..south indians in general are very tolerant people...muslim fundamentalism and congress appeasement politcs were what led to bjp's rise in karnataka...i am pretty sure after this hijab issue bjp will again come to power in karnataka next year...the next southern state that will fall for bjp will be telangana(next year)...muslims must realise the more fundamental, the more adamant they become , the stronger the bjp becomes which is not good for them in the long run.

 

[I.R.A]

It's not prohibited

If it is not prohibited no government, no state, no individual has any right to ban it.

Quran tells us Muslim to remain modest and it doesn't define the limits. Unless it is prohibited in Quran, no one can define those limits.

What is happening in india is simple plain hindu oppression of indian Muslims. hindus should mind their own business and stop interfering with Muslim matters.

It is the hindus who are being insecure and not Muslims. The intentions of people who wish to see Muslim women taking off their hijabs are very clear.

 

[aryadravida]

If it is not prohibited no government, no state, no individual has any right to ban it.

Quran tells us Muslim to remain modest and it doesn't define the limits. Unless it is prohibited in Quran, no one can define those limits.

What is happening in india is simple plain hindu oppression of indian Muslims. hindus should mind their own business and stop interfering with Muslim matters.

It is the hindus who are being insecure and not Muslims. The intentions of people who wish to see Muslim women taking off their hijabs are very clear.

it's not banned...it is not even banned in colleges or schools...all the court said was the colleges have the right to prescribe uniform and everyone has to follow that uniform...these girls can go to colleges where there is no uniform...no one is forcing them to study in those colleges...they have choice..

Quran tells us Muslim to remain modest and it doesn't define the limits.

Do you mean to say all hindu and muslim girls who wear college uniform are immodest?Every college has salwar qameez with a dhupatta as its uniform...if you are interested you can check on the net.
It is also imperative on colleges' part not to allow such hijabs as there is a high chance of these muslim girls looking down upon other muslim girls who dont wear hijab...it creates a sense of division among students...these hijabi girls may feel they are more pious and more chaste.

 

[Indos]

Indian will be in bad situation, no one considers Indian Hindu court in interpreting Islamic verse LOL

Debate about the need of wearing hijab and the contra of it is not something new in Muslim world. No Muslim countries give importance on Hindu court.

Indonesia society, West Java

Presiden wife now use Hijab

Indonesian potential leaders and their wife

1. Ganjar Pranowo ( Central Java Governor) and his wife

2. Anies Baswedan (Jakarta Governor) with wife and kids

3. Ridwan Kamil (West Java Governor) and his wife

4. Sandiaga Uno (previous VP candidate in 2019 election and current minister under Jokowi administration) and his wife

Indonesian elites wife

Presiden/VP/Parliament leader wife and local leaders (Governor and major) wife

2016 when Jokowi wife hasnt worn Hijab

Indonesian Air Force personnel wife

Ketua Umum Pia AG Ny. Ayu Yuyu Sutisna, Istri Prajurit TNI AU Harus Mempercantik Diri

Ketua Umum Pia AG Ny. Ayu Yuyu Sutisna, Istri Prajurit TNI AU Harus Mempercantik Diri - Berita - TNI Angkatan Udara

tni-au.mil.id

Just an example of Army troops in one of Army base with their wife

 

[StraightEdge]

In India, you will find everything but education in educational institutes. Every year we get lakhs of garbage who essentially are good for nothing. if you have money send your kids outside of India. Take any school or university ranking, you won't find any Indian educational institutes, entire curriculum is garbage. Let me show a sample of your mediocrity -

Class X CBSE exam. So these kids have been at home for 2 years now. Suddenly CBSE wanted to take this 2-format exam, 1 multiple choice, another normal exam. So by December they took the multiple choice exam, where students were expected to complete the entire syllabus by then. Not only that they made the choices in the exam so complicated. They gave the weightage of the exam 40%..
After the exam already started, they again changed rules in the middle of night. Suddenly they send message to the schools that the way they were marking the choices isn't working, so they asked a different way of marking. Absolute bonkers, we literally have donkeys in the top position. The entire country is run by incompetent retarded buffoons.

 

[I.R.A]

it's not banned...it is not even banned in colleges or schools...all the court said was the colleges have the right to prescribe uniform and everyone has to follow that uniform...these girls can go to colleges where there is no uniform...no one is forcing them to study in those colleges...they have choice..

Colleges and schools should only focus on the education they are providing, uniforms don't define the intelligence and competence of anyone. Refusing education to someone based on their appearance is racism. And indian courts have legalized this racism.

Do you mean to say all hindu and muslim girls who wear college uniform are immodest?Every college has salwar qameez with a dhupatta as its uniform...if you are interested you can check on the net.

Did you miss the part where I said that it doesn't define the limits of modesty? From wearing loose dress that fully covers the body to hiding hair are different levels of modesty.

For goodness sake in a country where according to government statistics a woman gets raped after every 16 minutes (the actual statistics may be worse) I would rather suggest that hindu women should also cover themselves as much as possible ...................

 

[Akshay89]

Colleges and schools should only focus on the education they are providing, uniforms don't define the intelligence and competence of anyone. Refusing education to someone based on their appearance is racism. And indian courts have legalized this racism.



Did you miss the part where I said that it doesn't define the limits of modesty? From wearing loose dress that fully covers the body to hiding hair are different levels of modesty.

For goodness sake in a country where according to government statistics a woman gets raped after every 16 minutes (the actual statistics may be worse) I would rather suggest that hindu women should also cover themselves as much as possible ...................

You are trying to debate with a Sanghi. He will now say that most rapes in India are committed by Muslim men