Karnataka corner!

[KalaGhoda]

@Indischer BTW, love your profile photo. where did you find it ? google ?

You part of the group defence addicts?

a facebook group ? defence addicts ?

 

[Bang Galore]

But, butt...what has that got to do a stanger who comes to your land and wants to communicate with you ?

At what point is a "stranger" not a stranger? 1 year, 2....10...15? Why should there not be an expectation that people be able to converse, however limited, in the language of the place. How is Hindi relevant here (in Karnataka)? The audacity of the stranger lies in his/her expectation that the local person learn to speak their language (hindi in this case) simply because the "stranger" can't be bothered with trying the local language. Bangalore has never had a problem with English but to automatically assume that it is the business of the locals to learn another language to communicate with the self-proclaimed "stranger" hardly makes sense. Resentment does build up, no one is asking for the stranger to speak Kannada when in his own private space but hopefully a long staying stranger would bother to humour the sentiments of the people among whom he has now chosen to reside, at;least when speaking to them.

Understand it dude, everyone's got one his own, why get forced with another when you don't want to be forced to do it ?

That's odd logic. Isn't the local guy forced to speak another language(not his own) if you don't speak his? Why is that ok?

 

[KalaGhoda]

At what point is a "stranger" not a stranger? 1 year, 2....10...15? Why should there not be an expectation that people be able to converse, however limited, in the language of the place. How is Hindi relevant here (in Karnataka)? The audacity of the stranger lies in his/her expectation that the local person learn to speak their language (hindi in this case) simply because the "stranger" can't be bothered with trying the local language. Bangalore has never had a problem with English but to automatically assume that it is the business of the locals to learn another language to communicate with the self-proclaimed "stranger" hardly makes sense. Resentment does build up, no one is asking for the stranger to speak Kannada when in his own private space but hopefully a long staying stranger would bother to humour the sentiments of the people among whom he has now chosen to reside, at;least when speaking to them.

They can converse all they want, with other kannadigas, when the conversation doesn't clearly arise with non kannada speakers when the point of the conversation being the language itself..and by the way, hindi is a lame excuse, hindi is spoken in only a few parts of india and the rest of indians have different languages. when they speak hindi in bangalore, most of they are stepping out of their zone and using hindi as a common ground not for ideological reasons but of practicality. the tongue moves in different ways than the north indian languages, it's actually and practically difficult to learn any of the four major southern languages.

Add the hostility which is presumptuous and self centered in this case. Why will they ? Let it happen naturally..it will happen in a way where kannada will be accepted as a language and not just a tool of communication with locals which your direction is at. Short term looking at things, the way you are looking at them. Harms kannada and makes it an "undesirable".

That's odd logic. Isn't the local guy forced to speak another language(not his own) if you don't speak his? Why is that ok?

What happens to him if he speaks a language other than his own ? His brain cells start omitting his own knowledge and starts replacing them with the words of the new language ? He starts forgetting his language ? becomes something else ?

This is about pride and the main point of division between two sets of people. Read my previous posts. Using this vain pride, british have ruled over us, muslims ruled here because hindus could not unite. because of these petty problems, petty prides, outsiders have ruled us. Now, look at this kannada non kannada issue from a large, india wide perspective.

If we do not learn from them, what the f*** is the point of talking about it and knowing about it ?

***************************

I hope you read these points and understand them and not just gloss over. I mean them. I am trying here to tell you what I have in my mind.

Thank you.

 

[Bang Galore]

They can converse all they want, with other kannadigas, when the conversation doesn't clearly arise with non kannada speakers when the point of the conversation being the language itself..and by the way, hindi is a lame excuse, hindi is spoken in only a few parts of india and the rest of indians have different languages. when they speak hindi in bangalore, most of they are stepping out of their zone and using hindi as a common ground not for ideological reasons but of practicality. the tongue moves in different ways than the north indian languages, it's actually and practically difficult to learn any of the four major southern languages.

My question was what will people who do not speak the local language, in this case Kannada use to speak to the locals? I understand practicality, you seem not to. You are suggesting that it should be okay to simply refuse to learn to speak the local language simply because the locals will, on account of practicality, speak Hindi or another language. Works in Karnataka because the locals, with exceptions are not linguistic warriors, certainly not to an unreasonable level. A trip down TN would quickly disabuse you of any such notions.

Add the hostility which is presumptuous and self centered in this case. Why will they ? Let it happen naturally..it will happen in a way where kannada will be accepted as a language and not just a tool of communication with locals which your direction is at. Short term looking at things, the way you are looking at them. Harms kannada and makes it an "undesirable".

15 years not enough time? Doesn't harm Kannada, those who are not interested in learning, won't. Any excuse will do. I speak 4 languages. Many in Bangalore (my family members average 6 languages) speak more. The exceptions are not the rule. If there is a reason why people get away by not speaking the language here, it is because they can. Thanks to the locals. No one here condones hostility but that is not the main point in this discussion. The refusal to learn the local language imposes (general usage) on the locals a language not of their choice.

What happens to him if he speaks a language other than his own ? His brain cells start omitting his own knowledge and starts replacing them with the words of the new language ? He starts forgetting his language ? becomes something else ?

]
Exactly. So why not learn the local language.

This is about pride and the main point of division between two sets of people. Read my previous posts. Using this vain pride, british have ruled over us, muslims ruled here because hindus could not unite. because of these petty problems, petty prides, outsiders have ruled us. Now, look at this kannada non kannada issue from a large, india wide perspective.

If we do not learn from them, what the f*** is the point of talking about it and knowing about it ?

No idea what you want to say here. Too much heat, not enough light.

***************************

I hope you read these points and understand them and not just gloss over. I mean them. I am trying here to tell you what I have
in my mind.

Thank you.

I hope you understand that you live in a world where people see what others do. The same people who want English to be not a requirement for the Indian(not just Hindi) Administrative Service using the argument that they should be allowed to use only the local language, damn practicality (like Hindi will help in TN or other states), have no compunctions using a different argument when it does come to having to deal with the feelings of other people, in their own land. I wouldn't expect to get away with speaking Kannada,Tulu, Tamil, Telugu, Marathi, Malayalam, even English if I had to communicate with the locals in UP or MP, I see no reason why others should expect an automatic exemption.

I'm no language chauvinist but your opinions are classic examples of why some hot heads feel the way they do about non-native language speakers. 15 years later, you call yourself an outsider, show very little respect for the locals or their language, dismiss all concerns and yet think that it is you & your opinion that is in the right. I'm afraid that there is no real point of agreement here unless you are proposing English as the link language everywhere.

 

[KalaGhoda]

My question was what will people who do not speak the local language, in this case Kannada use to speak to the locals? I understand practicality, you seem not to. You are suggesting that it should be okay to simply refuse to learn to speak the local language simply because the locals will, on account of practicality, speak Hindi or another language. Works in Karnataka because the locals, with exceptions are not linguistic warriors, certainly not to an unreasonable level. A trip down TN would quickly disabuse you of any such notions.

You didn't get it. They will refuse to learn the local language because the locals are ill mannered right from the very beginning with them, not speaking with them, and not acknowledging them as humans of another place. what you are saying is that they should learn kannada before entering karnataka. You should form your own country man.

and in bangalore urban, it doesn't matter if you are speaking sanskrit with the locals as long as the north indian pays double meter on auto, pays 3k extra rent and is always a naarthie..

TN ? have you faced the racism there based on language ? uncivilised people with a 5000 year old language. I support indian govt. cleaning out LTTE out of this grudge.

Exactly. So why not learn the local language.

because it is really difficult, should i write it in caps for you to understand this point / do you not understand when i write it is difficult to do so ? it takes time, when pushed upon learning it, 10 bucks extra will buy kannada for the north indian. why should he learn a language whose people do not respect them for being from wherever they are from ?

No idea what you want to say here. Too much heat, not enough light.

who should learn whose language, that pride..why should a puuuure kannadiga speak a few lines of hindi maybe once or twice a day ? that pride. admit it. heat...light, its words in english man.

I hope you understand that you live in a world where people see what others do. The same people who want English to be not a requirement for the Indian(not just Hindi) Administrative Service using the argument that they should be allowed to use only the local language, damn practicality (like Hindi will help in TN or other states), have no compunctions using a different argument when it does come to having to deal with the feelings of other people, in their own land. I wouldn't expect to get away with speaking Kannada,Tulu, Tamil, Telugu, Marathi, Malayalam, even English if I had to communicate with the locals in UP or MP, I see no reason why others should expect an automatic exemption.

No, but if the people of MP and UP start being hostile and abusive with you right from day one for not speaking hindi, speak the purest hindi with you and repeat it and then start abusing you for not knowing hindi, I would understand how you will feel. I really would. Maybe you also would if you read my post then.

I'm no language chauvinist but your opinions are classic examples of why some hot heads feel the way they do about non-native language speakers. 15 years later, you call yourself an outsider, show very little respect for the locals or their language, dismiss all concerns and yet think that it is you & your opinion that is in the right. I'm afraid that there is no real point of agreement here unless you are proposing English as the link language everywhere.

15 years later, I AM MADE to feel like an outsider, every single day. I have to say it to people that i have been staying here for 15 years. still people will take the longer route in auto thinking i don't know the route, the market vendor will charge me 20 bucks extra and then sneer mentally at me for coming here and ruining karnataka..ha ha boss !!! how do you think that feels ? awesome huh ?

Let it be english then...I have no qualms, but I am not going to bow down to kannada nazis and learn only the few words i need...no love for the language, no appreciation. Not the kinda people I would like to converse with. As minimum as possible.

 

[Bang Galore]

You didn't get it. They will refuse to learn the local language because the locals are ill mannered right from the very beginning with them, not speaking with them, and not acknowledging them as humans of another place. what you are saying is that they should learn kannada before entering karnataka. You should form your own country man.

and in bangalore urban, it doesn't matter if you are speaking sanskrit with the locals as long as the north indian pays double meter on auto, pays 3k extra rent and is always a naarthie..

TN ? have you faced the racism there based on language ? uncivilised people with a 5000 year old language. I support indian govt. cleaning out LTTE out of this grudge.




because it is really difficult, should i write it in caps for you to understand this point / do you not understand when i write it is difficult to do so ? it takes time, when pushed upon learning it, 10 bucks extra will buy kannada for the north indian. why should he learn a language whose people do not respect them for being from wherever they are from ?



who should learn whose language, that pride..why should a puuuure kannadiga speak a few lines of hindi maybe once or twice a day ? that pride. admit it. heat...light, its words in english man.



No, but if the people of MP and UP start being hostile and abusive with you right from day one for not speaking hindi, speak the purest hindi with you and repeat it and then start abusing you for not knowing hindi, I would understand how you will feel. I really would. Maybe you also would if you read my post then.




15 years later, I AM MADE to feel like an outsider, every single day. I have to say it to people that i have been staying here for 15 years. still people will take the longer route in auto thinking i don't know the route, the market vendor will charge me 20 bucks extra and then sneer mentally at me for coming here and ruining karnataka..ha ha boss !!! how do you think that feels ? awesome huh ?

Let it be english then...I have no qualms, but I am not going to bow down to kannada nazis and learn only the few words i need...no love for the language, no appreciation. Not the kinda people I would like to converse with. As minimum as possible.

It isn't a big deal obviously. If there was a big issue, you would have been forced to learn. It hasn't happened, so just a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. As you said, pay a little extra...etc. After all, if you have no respect for them, why complain they have none for you?

Btw, if after 15 years, people can still see that you are an outsider, the problem is not all with them.

but I am not going to bow down to kannada nazis and learn only the few words i need...no love for the language, no appreciation. Not the kinda people I would like to converse with. As minimum as possible.

...and with that attitude, you are complaining about what exactly?

 

[KalaGhoda]

It isn't a big deal obviously. If there was a big issue, you would have been forced to learn. It hasn't happened, so just a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. As you said, pay a little extra...etc. After all, if you have no respect for them, why complain they have none for you?

It's Bangalore, Bangalore makes it's money by writing codes in english for outsiders, speaking on an internet phone in the middle of night to america, britain, rest of the world in english...it is easily the hypocrisy of the higher order when kannada is demanded only from indians. All right ? kannadigas would learn zulu to talk with zuluanders when they come to invest money in millions of dollars. The pride is with the other indians.

Btw, if after 15 years, people can still see that you are an outsider, the problem is not all with them.

I look bengali..I do not look like a kannadiga...it's a different thing that they have a permanent us and them system, very similar to the religious structures..and who said all of them ? Times are changing...

Anyway, I'm done here. No hard feelings bob !

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You didn't get it. They will refuse to learn the local language because the locals are ill mannered right from the very beginning with them, not speaking with them, and not acknowledging them as humans of another place. what you are saying is that they should learn kannada before entering karnataka. You should form your own country man.

and in bangalore urban, it doesn't matter if you are speaking sanskrit with the locals as long as the north indian pays double meter on auto, pays 3k extra rent and is always a naarthie..

TN ? have you faced the racism there based on language ? uncivilised people with a 5000 year old language. I support indian govt. cleaning out LTTE out of this grudge.




because it is really difficult, should i write it in caps for you to understand this point / do you not understand when i write it is difficult to do so ? it takes time, when pushed upon learning it, 10 bucks extra will buy kannada for the north indian. why should he learn a language whose people do not respect them for being from wherever they are from ?



who should learn whose language, that pride..why should a puuuure kannadiga speak a few lines of hindi maybe once or twice a day ? that pride. admit it. heat...light, its words in english man.



No, but if the people of MP and UP start being hostile and abusive with you right from day one for not speaking hindi, speak the purest hindi with you and repeat it and then start abusing you for not knowing hindi, I would understand how you will feel. I really would. Maybe you also would if you read my post then.




15 years later, I AM MADE to feel like an outsider, every single day. I have to say it to people that i have been staying here for 15 years. still people will take the longer route in auto thinking i don't know the route, the market vendor will charge me 20 bucks extra and then sneer mentally at me for coming here and ruining karnataka..ha ha boss !!! how do you think that feels ? awesome huh ?

Let it be english then...I have no qualms, but I am not going to bow down to kannada nazis and learn only the few words i need...no love for the language, no appreciation. Not the kinda people I would like to converse with. As minimum as possible.

You got ditched by a Kannada girl. Admit it.

 

[Bang Galore]

I look bengali..I do not look like a kannadiga...it's a different thing that they have a permanent us and them system, very similar to the religious structures..and who said all of them ? Times are changing...

I have a friend who is a Punjabi & looks it, he doesn't get troubled by it because of his command over kannada. People see him & treat him as one of their own. I know & deal with many Bengalis, I'm yet to come across one with an attitude like yours. If a million Bengalis have chosen to live (that's the figure) in Bangalore, I'm sure that the vast majority manage pretty well .

 

[KalaGhoda]

You got ditched by a Kannada girl. Admit it.

No man, it really riles me up when people refuse to acknowledge the bad shit that they themselves are doing. All sorts of logic and pride crops up. And obviously this is not the first time I have done this debate...

interestingly, the only kannadiga gf of mine also would start this debate and then start throwing non metal objects at me when I would be logically me..

 

[abjktu]

Gottilla andre hege? Bengaloor nal idre Kannada kalibeku. Yaak kaleelilla?

kaLibeda..Bangalore alli kannadalli mathodokke ashtvondu avashyakathe irlilla..sumaaru vondu eradu vaakhyagalu thilidare saaku....
majestic hogutha?,daily pass kodi,pass ide,stop maadi,saaku,Kannada gothilla,time estaayittu....
ishtu gotidare saaku.....

 

[KalaGhoda]

I have a friend who is a Punjabi & looks it, he doesn't get troubled by it because of his command over kannada. People see him & treat him as one of their own. I know & deal with many Bengalis, I'm yet to come across one with an attitude like yours. If a million Bengalis have chosen to live (that's the figure) in Bangalore, I'm sure that the vast majority manage pretty well .

I also manage pretty well...better than many others, we were having an arguement here where I was giving you examples of what I mean...they are true and they do not disappear just by wishing them away. There's no attitude here...these are valid points against what you pointed out, Bob !

 

[Bang Galore]

I also manage pretty well...better than many others, we were having an arguement here where I was giving you examples of what I mean...they are true and they do not disappear just by wishing them away. There's no attitude here...these are valid points against what you pointed out, Bob !

Good for you. I disagree with the supposed lack of attitude, unlike you I have shown no disrespect for any linguistic group nor have I suggested that they are people I don't want to do anything with. You did. People can draw their own conclusions of the merit in the arguments put forward.

 

[KalaGhoda]

Good for you. I disagree with the supposed lack of attitude, unlike you I have shown no disrespect for any linguistic group nor have I suggested that they are people I don't want to do anything with. You did. People can draw their own conclusions of the merit in the arguments put forward.

You may have not, many...many have...towards me, towards people I know. They didn't really sit down and logically explain what their grievances were, but we had to pretty much get away for our safety. Neither have I disrespected kannada, and if you sit down, read back a few pages including my conversation with @Indischer where it all started, you would see how I dislike kannada being just a tool of communication with the "localite". this issue is a non issue of a vain pride which actually has violence with even law and order many a times on the wrong side rather than being neutral.

Outside, violence happens because of this, usually real people from outside get hurt. You should know that. This is not a tantrum topic of vain ego. yours or anybody's.

 

[abjktu]

You may have not, many...many have...towards me, towards people I know. They didn't really sit down and logically explain what their grievances were, but we had to pretty much get away for our safety. Neither have I disrespected kannada, and if you sit down, read back a few pages including my conversation with @Indischer where it all started, you would see how I dislike kannada being just a tool of communication with the "localite". this issue is a non issue of a vain pride which actually has violence with even law and order many a times on the wrong side rather than being neutral.

Outside, violence happens because of this, usually real people from outside get hurt. You should know that. This is not a tantrum topic of vain ego. yours or anybody's.

Bangalore mein kahan rahte hai???
from my experience Kannadigas are the most welcoming peoples in south Indian for outsiders..and least language chauvinist...i have many Kannadiga friends and they never treated me as an outsider...
Kannada seekna bahut mushkil nahi hai..kuch try karo...