Kasrkin
RETIRED MOD
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
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The initial mass-infantry attacks were unsuccessful, and frankly stupid.
These are the words of an Indian, not mine exactly. Speaking of which, going over the thread looking for this guys post however lead me to…
You jump the gun; you assume that me being an Indian would have trouble accepting that IA's jawans were killed by PA soldiers; you talk about logic: that my friend is a contradiction.
Where the hell is the "contradiction"? You obviously disbelieve that Operation Vijay was the primary source of the considerable Indian casualties. The Indians lost more than 1150 soldiers in 3 YEARS hard fighting in Sri Lanka, and at Kargil in the matter of weeks the Indian figure was 600 plus. How can you suggest that ‘probing parties’ are the principle cause of this bloated figure?
Most of India's losses were during the intitial stage when probing parties were regularly launched to examine and analyse the enemy's positions.
Your view is designed to discourage the notion that India lost men during hard-fast head-on decisive fighting in operations launched with over whelming numbers, firepower and definitive objectives of seizing Pakistani positions. It is unlikely that massed infantry attacks were used in ‘probing’ operations, even if it is true to some extent then it represents shocking incompetence. If you experience more resistance than expected and failed to achieve the intended objectives, the mission should not be branded a ‘probing’ operation in an attempt to dilute the failure no matter how tempting that might be.
This would indicate that you are having inconvenience believing that India lost their bulk of men to Pakistani boys in decisively planned confrontations.
The reason we did not cross the LoC had nothing to do with our "fragile" (perhaps only according to you) international position.
There was immense pressure on India not to widen the conflict, you cannot pretend that India could have launched a full scale war then and crippled Pakistan (which in itself would take considerable time according to the most India-friendly ‘experts’ without severe international repercussions and at the same time justify your military setbacks due to international pressure not to cross the LoC. Not that crossing the LoC and engaging other fresh (regular) Pakistani formations would have benefited IA’s unbalanced and over-committed disposition.
If you were honorable you would admit that in face of the unrealistic and probably futile option of trying to use your already committed forces and equipment to wrestle control of (well defended) logistics routes inside Azad Kashmir from the regular PA formations, the generals and the politicians decided to stick to Occupied Kashmir and receive the international “good will” for using self-proclaimed “restraint”. An Indian Mig was shot down in Pakistani territory, so it’s not like the Indians were particularly careful about provoking us either...fustration was there which I dont deny.
I don’t see how anyone can delude themselves to the gravity of the situation the Indians faced, according to Brian Cloughley in a book the Indian DGMO Gen. V.R. Raghavan says is ‘written by an observant military author who is both candid and objective’, the Pakistanis evacuated from the 14 posts the Indians attacked, while the remaining 120 or so posts were only vacated on orders from across the LoC. Also that Indian casualties would have been ‘very much higher’ had the Pakistanis decided to stay. I just don’t see how bringing the bulk of Pakistani forces into the fray would solve India’s problems. Unless you have any concrete proof to suggest the contrary?
Impailed by own rhetoric; glad to hear your generalization and personal slur.
It wasn’t a ‘slur’, just an expression. But I can keep it up if you’re glad to hear it so much.
I said that had an all-out war broken out Pakistan would have lost much more; you assume something particularly contrary.
Ofcourse I know you have more to lose, i.e. population, economy, investment, etc…
So, let me get this straight, "hahahaha" implies you have nothing to say.
Ofcourse I have nothing to express other than amusement for the uneducated opinions some overly nationalistic Indians have expressed in this thread.