Karakorum - 8 (K-8) | Jet Trainer Aircraft.

[araz]

Agreed with the rate of production for JF17. Even though i am not particularly pleased with that 24 per year figure (i would like it to be in region of 36 or so if we are serious about exports) but still i do understand the need of it and completely agree with it. A necessity more than a choice really. We sure don't have multiple projects running where we can transfer and share resources. I just hope we get there some time!

For Hurkus, again, i agree. There are SO many options available i am not sure how much PAC will be attracted in license production etc. All we need in manufacturing for some parts, that is, for THIS order/requirement. However any insight into the technology must not go to waste as in K8 and should be used whenever we need to look at some other platform for some other requirement in future. The parts production and technology insight will be helpful! IT SHOULD BE!

Thank you for your response. One really needs to hear from an expert as to why the K8 was acquired and what limitations are there on its development. It is a fairly comprehensive subject and I am not qualified to comment on it. The other and most relevant question one needs ot ask is whether the replacement of K8 is that necessary NOW or is it something we may need to look into post 2020-25. As always we need parameters first before we start a debate. The other question is the numbers game ie how many do we need. I suspect at best around 40 to 50 max platforms. If this is true do we need to re invent the wheel. I suspect any new project will set us back 700---1Billion $ in research should we embark on our own project and at least half the price for licence production and production of parts. Is all of this worth it for 50 platforms. The million dollar question is whether a newer platform will sell as well as the K8 has done. A lot of questions to which there are no answers.!!!!
Regards

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Thank you for your response. One really needs to hear from an expert as to why the K8 was acquired and what limitations are there on its development. It is a fairly comprehensive subject and I am not qualified to comment on it. The other and most relevant question one needs ot ask is whether the replacement of K8 is that necessary NOW or is it something we may need to look into post 2020-25. As always we need parameters first before we start a debate. The other question is the numbers game ie how many do we need. I suspect at best around 40 to 50 max platforms. If this is true do we need to re invent the wheel. I suspect any new project will set us back 700---1Billion $ in research should we embark on our own project and at least half the price for licence production and production of parts. Is all of this worth it for 50 platforms. The million dollar question is whether a newer platform will sell as well as the K8 has done. A lot of questions to which there are no answers.!!!!
Regards

I believe it was bad timing that ultimately withheld the K-8 program. In the 1990s the U.S. slammed us with sanctions, which made acquiring the turbofan a problem. On top of that, our economy had some issues, and as a cost-savings measure, the PAF decided to apply a SLEP on the T-37s (which the K-8s were supposed to replace). In 1999, the JF-17 program started, and the PAF essentially focused the mainstay of its development resources on that (with a little going into the surprisingly successful Super Mushshak). The K-8 was a victim of circumstance.

At this stage, the PAF has evidently not pushed ahead with using the K-8 to entirely phase out the T-37s, it is still sticking to the Tweets in the mainstay training role. It seems the K-8s have been allocated for fighter conversion training. And I don't recall seeing any new K-8s on the procurement docket.

If the PAF is to seek a new trainer, e.g. Hurkus, I imagine they would begin by phasing out the T-37s. The K-8s would soldier on in their FCU role.

 

[muhammadali233]

I believe it was bad timing that ultimately withheld the K-8 program. In the 1990s the U.S. slammed us with sanctions, which made acquiring the turbofan a problem. On top of that, our economy had some issues, and as a cost-savings measure, the PAF decided to apply a SLEP on the T-37s (which the K-8s were supposed to replace). In 1999, the JF-17 program started, and the PAF essentially focused the mainstay of its development resources on that (with a little going into the surprisingly successful Super Mushshak). The K-8 was a victim of circumstance.

At this stage, the PAF has evidently not pushed ahead with using the K-8 to entirely phase out the T-37s, it is still sticking to the Tweets in the mainstay training role. It seems the K-8s have been allocated for fighter conversion training. And I don't recall seeing any new K-8s on the procurement docket.

If the PAF is to seek a new trainer, e.g. Hurkus, I imagine they would begin by phasing out the T-37s. The K-8s would soldier on in their FCU role.

fake or new id?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

fake or new id?

New ID. The @Quwa will be for website related stuff. The one I am using with my name is for personal opinions and discussions.

 

[fatman17]

@ arsalan do you realise India can only produce 3 tejas per year, so 24 is a very good achievement, remember that PAC is also upgrading block ls simultaneously along with overhauls of the same.

 

[HRK]

 

[SW187]

What is the cost of this aircraft?
Besides use as a trainer, I wonder if it has any light-attack or COIN capability.
It would be pretty useful if you could attach a LITENING pod.

 

[fatman17]

K8 Sherdils

 

[Bilal9]

 

[mrrehan]

Using K-8 since 1995 around 21-22 years I think need to look some advance training options now like YAK-130 with 2 engine it is quite reliable for training and safety. K-8 is good but nothing is forever, we need to compete in technological advancement in upcoming fighter aircraft. YAK-130 is very advance then K-8.

In view of growing Pakistan, Russian relations I think TOT in future not be very hard. Lastly the roll of aircraft as ground attack for close air support. and the number of weapons it can carry is good as well.

I personally thinks we should go for it.

 

[Tank131]

Using K-8 since 1995 around 21-22 years I think need to look some advance training options now like YAK-130 with 2 engine it is quite reliable for training and safety. K-8 is good but nothing is forever, we need to compete in technological advancement in upcoming fighter aircraft. YAK-130 is very advance then K-8.

In view of growing Pakistan, Russian relations I think TOT in future not be very hard. Lastly the roll of aircraft as ground attack for close air support. and the number of weapons it can carry is good as well.

I personally thinks we should go for it.

Yak 130 is an advanced jet trainer which pilots use prior to going into fast jets, the K-8 is a basic to intermediate trainer. This is the aircraft that pilots graduate to when they have completed training on a basic fighter trainer like a turboprop Super Tucano or Hurkus. As such it depends on you pilot training regimens which one is more valuable to you. For PAF, they have dual seat fighters (Mirages and F-7) that fulfill the advance trainer role which will be replaced with simulators and dual seat JF-17s.

PAF pilots start on super-mushak and graduate to K-8 or T-37s then into Operational Conversion Units (OCUs) which utilize dual seat fast jets for training (i.e. Mirage, FT-7, F-16B/D and in future, JF-17B). There really isnt a need for something like YAK-130.

On the other hand if you utilize a basic turboprop (super Mushak) to advanced turboprop (Hurkus or Super Tucano or Texan II), you may consider an advanced jet trainer (like Yak 130 or T-38 Talon or T-50 Golden Eagle) prior to fast jet conversion.

 

[HAIDER]

BD is using PAK color scheme .... ???

 

[Bilal9]

BD is using PAK color scheme .... ???

The first scheme is close to the Pakistani one looks like. Maybe hurriedly adopted, the second one might be different.

The pattern is different on the vertical tail (rudder) as well as wing undersides. The blue is also darker. Smoke liquid tank is white (Red for Pakistani birds). There are other subtle differences as well.

 

[nana41]

Well is it more suitable for ground missions vs rouge elements ?

Can a gun be mounded on this plane ? Machine gun etc or Guided ammunition ?

I noticed egypt have like 200 of these trainers one of the biggest operators of this platform , its used by many country very successful platform

View attachment 131480

It would be ideal to use smart bombs on this plane for ground operations if used for mission ?

How did the Venezuelans managed to put missiles on the plane can we put any of our missiles on this craft ?

A 5000lb thrust engine and small radar,with wing tipped Pl-3 a/a missile, two pylons for two small diameter bombs and externally mounted machine gun, it will be the best basic/advance jet trainer.

 

[khanasifm]

Blue and Green PAC rest CATAC