Karachi, Sindh - Pakistan's achilles heal?

[fitpOsitive]

Bhaijan.

Sindhi bilkul bhi mind nahi karte jab wadere unko abuse karte hain ... Koi farak nahi parta unhein kiyonke woh wadera sindhi speaking hai.

Agar ik muhajir ya punjabi se choti se galti hojae tou bohat ziada shor karte hain our jab inke khod ke sindhi wadere galat kam karte hain tou woh unko defend karte hain.

Shahrukh Jatoi ka case hi dekhlo.....Apne bande ke sath khare hain sindhi jo ke ik rapist and harraser hai.

Jahalat hai bhai. Or isi Jahalat k khilaf jang hai.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

1) At the time of partition, the way British developed the sub continent, the industries, education, jobs and skills associated with them, in nutshell, majority of development was done in what was to become India on 15th August 1947. Have we not all brought up with this knowledge in our history lessons? As to how struggle for Pakistan, to build it from scratch was nothing more then a miracle. It's a no brainer, that those who migrated, were better educated and better skilled. It's not a dig or degrading Punjabis or any other ethnicity, but it's a fact that they were simply not upto to task to run the affair of state due to to lack of opportunities and skills sets required, thanks to British raj. Peasants cannot run the country, otherwise you will see chavs in british parliament.

So this moronic notion that jobs were "stolen" or they were handed out to mohajirs, is beyond being lunacy.

2) allow me to squash this non sense about "better opportunities" or "economic reasons" which were the motivation factor for mohajirs to move to Pakistan. Firstly, no one move for the sake of it specially when own life might be put in danger during the course of action. Secondly, 1947 Pakistan was hardly a " goose which lays golden eggs" for people to jump on any opportunity to migrate to it. It was a absolute mess actually. My grandfather was working for British railways, he was given the choice to stay put or move to Pakistan. He opted for Pakistan, left his havali, all his ancestral fertile lands, end up serving in Mir Pur Khas, middle of desert, with scorching sun, and having no pen on his desk to do his daily official work. His brother didnt leave India however. The fact that there are more muslims in India then in Pakistan really should be an eye opener to these nutcase who think that mohajirs came to Pakistan for "economic reasons". I have never come across any mohajir of first and second generation who have got the memories of partition saying that economics was the driving force for migration. On the contrary, many turned to rags from riches.



@Indus Pakistan .. cease and disest from this toxic non sense that you are spreading. What next? How Punjab was responsible for creation of Bangladesh?

@WebMaster you are a clown to positive rate this garbage. Should have been binned at the first sight.

 

[newb3e]

I always wondered about the prediction of Naimatullah Shah wali predictions. He said Attok river will flow with blood in it. I wondered how will it happen.
Now I clearly see, how will it happen.

i dont know if hadith is authentic or not but Nabi SAW did mention keh sindh ki kharabi hind say hoge!

Bhaijan.

Sindhi bilkul bhi mind nahi karte jab wadere unko abuse karte hain ... Koi farak nahi parta unhein kiyonke woh wadera sindhi speaking hai.

Agar ik muhajir ya punjabi se choti se galti hojae tou bohat ziada shor karte hain our jab inke khod ke sindhi wadere galat kam karte hain tou woh unko defend karte hain.

Shahrukh Jatoi ka case hi dekhlo.....Apne bande ke sath khare hain sindhi jo ke ik rapist and harraser hai.

yaar aab batown ki aik baat agar sindhi wadera rape karta hai toh ya qanoon naam ki shay kahna hoti hai? kahna hotay hain ya tank dooranay wallay messiah? kahan thay ya jab asif zardari 18th amendment laa raha aur Mumlikat e khuda dad Pakistan keh tukray kar raha tha! inko sirf Pakistna us waqt yaad atta hai kab extension ya coup karna hota hai!

 

[newb3e]

1) At the time of partition, the way British developed the sub continent, the industries, education, jobs and skills associated with them, in nutshell, majority of development was done in what was to become India on 15th August 1947. Have we not all brought up with this knowledge in our history lessons? As to how struggle for Pakistan, to build it from scratch was nothing more then a miracle. It's a no brainer, that those who migrated, were better educated and better skilled. It's not a dig or degrading Punjabis or any other ethnicity, but it's a fact that they were simply not upto to task to run the affair of state due to to lack of opportunities and skills sets required, thanks to British raj. Peasants cannot run the country, otherwise you will see chavs in british parliament.

So this moronic notion that jobs were "stolen" or they were handed out to mohajirs, is beyond being lunacy.

2) allow me to squash this non sense about "better opportunities" or "economic reasons" which were the motivation factor for mohajirs to move to Pakistan. Firstly, no one move for the sake of it specially when own life might be put in danger during the course of action. Secondly, 1947 Pakistan was hardly a " goose which lays golden eggs" for people to jump on any opportunity to migrate to it. It was a absolute mess actually. My grandfather was working for British railways, he was given the choice to stay put or move to Pakistan. He opted for Pakistan, left his havali, all his ancestral fertile lands, end up serving in Mir Pur Khas, middle of desert, with scorching sun, and having no pen on his desk to do his daily official work. His brother didnt leave India however. The fact that there are more muslims in India then in Pakistan really should be an eye opener to these nutcase who think that mohajirs came to Pakistan for "economic reasons". I have never come across any mohajir of first and second generation who have got the memories of partition saying that economics was the driving force for migration. On the contrary, many turned to rags from riches.



@Indus Pakistan .. cease and disest from this toxic non sense that you are spreading. What next? How Punjab was responsible for creation of Bangladesh?

@WebMaster you are a clown to positive rate this garbage. Should have been binned at the first sight.

brilliant post!

i have travelled extensively to interior sindh and Balochistan not urban centers but real villages and i have interacted with balochis and sindhis and some absolutely hate the idea of punjabis looting their resources while they literally eat dust sindhis hate ppp but since they are the law they cant do anything agaonst them! state as we know it doesnt exists in these part of Pakistan! lakin wardi wallon ki zameenain huur goun may app ko milaij geeen jo area jitna zyada fertile utna wardi keh shikangay may! aur yahna pdf peh log warriors bantay hain jesay poora din interact kartay hoon ground realities dekheen hun!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

You can hate me and despise all you like. I am not posting here for friendship or validation. Just to clarify I am Pakistani origin who regularly visits Pakistan. In fact I just got my Pfizer covid jab and am planning to go in March. I still have land in my ancestral village and all my biradri live there many are serving or are ex-Pak Army. My antecedents served in the army for generations going back to British era. I hail from Pakhtun ancestry in what used to be called Chach region - specifically adjacent to the Indus River, Waisa in Attock district. On my maternal side we have links to Hazro and Hazara, K-Pk. I am second generation British Pakistani. But my bond with my family in Pakistan is and will stay strong., It is written in blood. Non of you cnuts could dare question my patriotism in front of my people. Enough of me.

What is of more import is the points I raised. Non of you have seriously analysed them. The issue is actually in front of you. Think about this. How many people from rural Sindh are here presenting their side of argumant? I believe non. The fact is. Five, ten, twenty years from today the rural masses will awaken and throw the fueudal bondage of PPP into the sea. But what then? What sort of political movement will rise to articulate their views and fight for their rights? That is when you will have trouble. Non of this will remotely effect me or my native region in Pakistan other than I just hope to god non of our boys serving in uniform are called to clean the mess like my uncle had to in Bangla 1971.

In the meantime call me all the names. It matters nought. Although I find it real ironic that those who scream about being exceptional, meritocrats, entitled, special call me racist. Mashallah. Keep up the delusions. But you are abd will be even smaller minority as we move forward.

Good day to all.

 

[pakpride00090]

You can hate me and despise all you like. I am not posting here for friendship or validation. Just to clarify I am Pakistani origin who regularly visits Pakistan. In fact I just got my Pfizer covid jab and am planning to go in March. I still have land in my ancestral village and all my biradri live there many are serving or are ex-Pak Army. My antecedents served in the army for generations going back to British era. I hail from Pakhtun ancestry in what used to be called Chach region - specifically adjacent to the Indus River, Waisa in Attock district. On my maternal side we have links to Hazro and Hazara, K-Pk. I am second generation British Pakistani. But my bond with my family in Pakistan is and will stay strong., It is written in blood. Non of you cnuts could dare question my patriotism in front of my people. Enough of me.

What is of more import is the points I raised. Non of you have seriously analysed them. The issue is actually in front of you. Think about this. How many people from rural Sindh are here presenting their side of argumant? I believe non. The fact is. Five, ten, twenty years from today the rural masses will awaken and throw the fueudal bondage of PPP into the sea. But what then? What sort of political movement will rise to articulate their views and fight for their rights? That is when you will have trouble. Non of this will remotely effect me or my native region in Pakistan other than I just hope to god non of our boys serving in uniform are called to clean the mess like my uncle had to in Bangla 1971.

In the meantime call me all the names. It matters nought. Although I find it real ironic that those who scream about being exceptional, meritocrats, entitled, special call me racist. Mashallah. Keep up the delusions. But you are abd will be even smaller minority as we move forward.

Good day to all.

Rest of your post is garbage but I will only address the bolded point.

That event is not going to happen again as what happened in east Pakistan happened to due very specific circumstances that are not replicable here. Your concerns are unfounded and given your racist history , no one is going to bother engaging with you.

You can shove your self-righteous attitude up your ***.

P.S . Reported you for using profane words.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Rest of your post is garbage but I will only address the bolded point.

That event is not going to happen again as what happened in east Pakistan happened to due very specific circumstances that are not replicable here. Your concerns are unfounded and given your racist history , no one is going to bother engaging with you.

You can shove your self-righteous attitude up your ***.

P.S . Reported you for using profane words.

East Pakistan 1971 happened for many reasons. one of which was it was far from West Pakistan. but Sindh is in West Pakistan, so its highly unlikely it will get secede.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

East Pakistan 1971 happened for many reasons. one of which was it was far from West Pakistan. but Sindh is in West Pakistan, so its highly unlikely it will get secede.

While there are major differances but there are areas of convergence and one should not be complacent. You only have to look at the history of strife over last 4 decades to see that. Very nuanced and deft policies will have to be crafted to resolve the structural issues. In the meantime for sake of the rest of the country Gwadar and development of Western Corridor are crucial as in themselves and as a alternative should things unravel. This is called strategic planning.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

While there are major differances but there are areas of convergence and one should not be complacent. You only have to look at the history of strife over last 4 decades to see that. Very nuanced and deft policies will have to be crafted to resolve the structural issues. In the meantime for sake of the rest of the country Gwadar and development of Western Corridor are crucial as in themselves and as a alternative should things unravel. This is called strategic planning.

i told you earlier, i have nothing to say to you. dont tag me.

 

[pakpride00090]

East Pakistan 1971 happened for many reasons. one of which was it was far from West Pakistan. but Sindh is in West Pakistan, so its highly unlikely it will get secede.

I wouldn't worry about secession. Sindhis are not powerful enough. Except for few waderas , most are very poor and don't really have the numbers/weapons/international support besides every day , these sindhi separatist are picked up by black vigo... They can do their randi rona on twitter only.

 

[Goenitz]

Unfortunately both sides are dug in and will not change. Any attempt to carve Karachi out of Sindh or attemp to truncate it would result in a catastrophic reaction from all Sindhi based parties. We all know what happened in Bangla 1971

That will be an eventuality anyway if Karachi doesn't progress. Only good economy can lead to tranquillity.
I suggest instead of making Sindh into 2 provinces make it in 3 or 4, like divide and rule. Same goes to Punjab (3-4).
As it is hard for any individual, no matter how competent he is with highest management skills and corruption free record, to rule a large population spread over a large area. So small units are needed.
@PaklovesTurkiye @313ghazi (I lack some writing skills ) @peagle

Anyway, enemy can only take advantage if people are desperate. And asian can only get desperate if they have no jobs and are hungry. We can live w/o good health/education/facility and don;t revolt until we get hungry. Look at Indians, their rights are ripped off but they are happy that at least Modi is building RSS Mandir.. @SQ8 I hope it is not derailing...

Anyway, it is long but you can skip and see East Pakistanis economic conditions and still it took them 24 years and Indian help to revolt...

 

[Nefarious]

By all means complain about your city (story of Pakistans life). Your 'sacrifice' is no less then any other Pakistanis sacrifice rich or poor who is fighting for their daily bread amidst all the bs corruption.

No you didn't do anymore then other Pakistanis who all are in the same boat just had different opportunities.

Think people need to realise love your city but it's not your dads. It's Pakistan's and Pakistan is bigger then you, if you don't like it f** off. There won't be another Bangla only a clean up crew from Pak state,behave.

 

[Meengla]

Frankly even I was surprised at some of the facts obtaining to the 1947-1958 period. Most Mohajirs who today scream [you see this on PDF everyday] that they sacrificed so much actually migrated to Pakistan many years after it's establishment. In other words they migrated for economic reasons as families ans friends who had already arrived spread the word back to their relatives in India. This process continued until nearl;y decade later in 1955 when the government made some effort to stop this practice. Today all their descendants walk around with air of exceptionalism and entitlememnt. When they have been the biggest benefactors of the state. Why not go and find the living standards of Thar Parker residents?

I don't think there was anything to rebut! Your entire blah blah lead to projecting a repeat of 1971 to be done by the Urdu Speakers--who happen to be amongst the most patriotic of all Pakistanis--alone was enough that you rebutted yourself and comprehensively! Have you seen the geography of Karachi? Does it look like it is 1000 miles separated by a hostile India? Have you seen the ethnic composition of Karachi? Does it look like 95% Urdu Speakers?? Even if your bizarre notion that Urdu Speakers are traitors or carpet-beggars were to be true--which it is NOT-- the dire scenario you present is absolutely rubbish!

Having said all this, I will concede that Urdu Speakes had (and maybe still have some) an air of superiority. But that was not based upon ethnic/racist lines. It's the same air of a more educated northern/industrialized/educated Americans hold for we southern Americans--and I KNOW that because I live in the South and the 'Yankees' sometimes confide that. It's classism. Wrong but not racism.

So the migrants benefited from Pakistan--and that's wrong? Immigrants are more industrious wherever they go--that is happening even now. Want to compare the Mexican Americans with the Mexican Mexicans??? In case of Pakistan: How could an educated wave of immigrants not benefit in a largely feudal society, especially when the whole country was open to basically rebuild from scratch? And how come the knowledge and skills they brought not benefited the fledgling country of Pakistan??? Don't compare with Indian Muslims! If you do, then you only dig yourself deeper in the damn hole you have dug for yourself in this forum! But the Pakistan of present is not as feudal and other ethnic groups in Pakistan are also greatly enjoying the fruits of being citizens of Pakistan. Eventually places like Tharparker will also once the yolk of a feudal PPP is gone.

You should focus your attention on issues like Kashmir, on infrastructure projects, and on other positive things about Pakistan instead of fixed on divisive issues--that is if you care for Pakistan.

 

[Bilal.]

Nazis wishing Karachi neutralized and to lose it’s importance shall take their nefarious schemes to their graves in a foreign land while their progeny assimilates in a foreign culture.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I don't think there was anything to rebut! Your entire blah blah lead to projecting a repeat of 1971 to be done by the Urdu Speakers--who happen to be amongst the most patriotic of all Pakistanis--alone was enough that you rebutted yourself and comprehensively! Have you seen the geography of Karachi? Does it look like it is 1000 miles separated by a hostile India? Have you seen the ethnic composition of Karachi? Does it look like 95% Urdu Speakers?? Even if your bizarre notion that Urdu Speakers are traitors or carpet-beggars were to be true--which it is NOT-- the dire scenario you present is absolutely rubbish!

Having said all this, I will concede that Urdu Speakes had (and maybe still have some) an air of superiority. But that was not based upon ethnic/racist lines. It's the same air of a more educated northern/industrialized/educated Americans hold for we southern Americans--and I KNOW that because I live in the South and the 'Yankees' sometimes confide that. It's classism. Wrong but not racism.

So the migrants benefited from Pakistan--and that's wrong? Immigrants are more industrious wherever they go--that is happening even now. Want to compare the Mexican Americans with the Mexican Mexicans??? In case of Pakistan: How could an educated wave of immigrants not benefit in a largely feudal society, especially when the whole country was open to basically rebuild from scratch? And how come the knowledge and skills they brought not benefited the fledgling country of Pakistan??? Don't compare with Indian Muslims! If you do, then you only dig yourself deeper in the damn hole you have dug for yourself in this forum! But the Pakistan of present is not as feudal and other ethnic groups in Pakistan are also greatly enjoying the fruits of being citizens of Pakistan. Eventually places like Tharparker will also once the yolk of a feudal PPP is gone.

You should focus your attention on issues like Kashmir, on infrastructure projects, and on other positive things about Pakistan instead of fixed on divisive issues--that is if you care for Pakistan.

Brilliant post.

The highlighted parts. These British born confused desis, and unfortunately some within Pakistan are clueless pseudo intellect. FYI, There are more Pakhtoons in Karachi then in Kabul.

You nailed it, indeed its classism. Mohajir is not an ethnicity or a race so the issue of racism do not arise. For example, those who migrated from Bihar have certain norms and behaviours to those who migrated from Hyderabad Deccan. Those who migrated from UP, most of them got family trees going all the way to those Pakhtoons who migrated to lands which are now India, during the Muslim rule of sub continent. Actually, this classism is prevalent within Mohajirs if I have to to be honest. Have experienced it first hand growing up in Karachi. I have not known a single Bihari who marry outside their own. Memons are notorious for this as well, with all due respect. It all boils down to classism.

In my opinion, its the quota system which is the root of all ills. Rather nature run it course, and other parts of Pakistan and citizens living there , catch up with those who migrated, state tried to force the agenda, and in turn pissed off Mohajirs, which in turn caused anxiety among northerners who started to look at Mohajirs as some sort of Ashkenazi Jews who were not son of soils, but occupying the state machinery. One has to just look into the state of affairs and level of professionalism within bureaucracy, institutions (PIA is a good example) in pre and post quota system era.