Kabul this evening

[RAMPAGE]

I always wondered why "usury" / "interest" is Haram. If so, then why would a financial institution lend money? After speaking to a lot of people, and researching, I have arrived at the conclusion, that it is loan sharking that is absolutely Haram, and "interest" some what acceptable?

I'm no scholar, by any yardstick, just by humble opinion.

Your rationale is historically informed, which makes your conclusion far more credible than the popular belief completely divorced from history.

 

[ziaulislam]

Query-
Quite confused, the entire forum seems is cheerleading for Taliban, @Irfan Baloch seems to suggest this as a negative development. The other senior Mods celebrating, Are Pakistanis in support of the Taliban , is the view divided, or are Pakistanis in general anti-taliban?

Pakistani in general know that talis will be brutal but they also know that talis will be dependent on pakistan ans hence will not pretend to march to attock or bomb pakistan on indian money

 

[EasyNow]

For those worried about Taliban, I do believe Pakistan is working much more closely than is shown.

Recently, the Talibans closing of the chaman border crossing was quite strange and revealing I believe.

The one major way the Taliban blitzkrieg could have hurt Pakistan was by a mass refugee exodus. But the Taliban conveniently mitigated that.

It seems pretty likely also that Talibans new 'moderate' take on Sharia is Pakistan led. I don't think they could fathom how to gain international legitimacy without guidance.

So Pakistan is in the drivers seat I believe, but that said, no one can predict the social impact IEA will have on Pakistan internally.

 

[CriticalThought]

Sorry for jumping in between you two, and apologies for being off topic. Maybe we could take this conv to a relevant thread?

I always wondered why "usury" / "interest" is Haram. If so, then why would a financial institution lend money? After speaking to a lot of people, and researching, I have arrived at the conclusion, that it is loan sharking that is absolutely Haram, and "interest" some what acceptable?

I'm no scholar, by any yardstick, just by humble opinion.

If you are not a religious scholar, please don't opinionate on religious matters. Go as valid religious scholars. Otherwise, you will be misguided yourself and you will misguide others as well.

 

[Windjammer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1427309340638253057

https://twitter.com/x/status/1427296579980046340

 

[Sayfullah]

If you have such a **** for Shariah
Can you please go and live with the Taliban in Afghanistan?

Why ruin it for the rest of Pakistanis...

Pakistan got its independence from India why?
Surely to not become a secular country or another one of those “Muslim” countries.
Pakistan was created on the name of Islam so Islamic governance system is a must in Pakistan.
Otherwise Muslims in India pray namaz go to the masjid and read Quran whats the point of Pakistan than?
The millions of people who sacrificed their life for Pakistans creation wanted a Islamic Pakistan with shariah. Quiad e azam wanted Pakistan to be a Islamic country!

Pakistan Ka Matlab Kya, La Ilaha Illa llah

 

[Maula Jatt]

Pakistan got its independence from India why?
Surely to not become a secular country or another one of those “Muslim” countries.
Pakistan was created on the name of Islam so Islamic governance system is a must in Pakistan.
Otherwise Muslims in India pray namaz go to the masjid and read Quran whats the point of Pakistan than?
The millions of people who sacrificed their life for Pakistans creation wanted a Islamic Pakistan with shariah. Quiad e azam wanted Pakistan to be a Islamic country!

Pakistan Ka Matlab Kya, La Ilaha Illa llah

read up Jinnah's vision for Pakistan

He was inspired by the likes of Attaturk

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@Windjammer Those hercules may on one trips - shame to see them leave the region permanently and not help out elsewhere. Pakistan could offer to maintain and keep them safe for the new Afghanistan.

I wonder if the PAF and PA could try leasing Bagram and Shindad, and the remnant hardware. Pakistan can pay the new gov't for the facilities and hardware until the new Afghan establishment wants to take ownership. But until that point, they'll get paid to allow their neighbour to use and maintain the assets.

Sorry for jumping in between you two, and apologies for being off topic. Maybe we could take this conv to a relevant thread?

I always wondered why "usury" / "interest" is Haram. If so, then why would a financial institution lend money? After speaking to a lot of people, and researching, I have arrived at the conclusion, that it is loan sharking that is absolutely Haram, and "interest" some what acceptable?

I'm no scholar, by any yardstick, just by humble opinion.

It's important to spotlight the reference point here -- "why would a financial institution lend money?" Basically, a ban on interest wouldn't make sense for commercial lending, there's no incentive. So, the point Islam might be making is that when someone needs money, there shouldn't be a commercial incentive to help them -- you should help the person for literally God's sake. Islam also recommends forgiving the loan if the person can't pay it back -- there's emphasis on sadaqah and giving your dunya in return for your aakhirah.

However, for such a system to work, someone has to channel liquidity into the economic system. If the incentive isn't commercial, then it shifts to economic interests. Who's job is that? It'd be the state or government, which -- in modern times -- isn't unheard of, today's governments did it (some at 0% interest) to generate a stimulus effect.

 

[SQ8]

If you are not a religious scholar, please don't opinionate on religious matters. Go as valid religious scholars. Otherwise, you will be misguided yourself and you will misguide others as well.

A word of caution on becoming the same model as was recorded in the seerat on the Jews of Medina where they were hoarding their status as scholars for profit and personal importance using similar messaging.

The fact of the matter is that Western society is structured to shift pious Muslims away from positions of power. They ask you about your views, and if you have views that are in accordance with Islam 100%, from that point onwards you face roadblocks towards positions of management. To the point, that your colleagues will openly declare they don't want to work under you. Every time you see a Muslim in a position of power, it is almost guaranteed that this person has shown his liberalism by going against some fundamental tenet of Islam. The usual ones being drinking alcohol, committing fornication (aka dating), publicly declaring you don't believe in Hoors (yep, strange as it may sound Western women hate Hoors with a passion) and obviously embracing feminism and at least accepting homosexuality.

An eye opener for all: Saudis invest billions of dollars into Citibank, the bank goes down. I still remember when a Saudi prince had to make an emergency transfer of 10 billion dollars. Why don't you think the Saudis and Emiraatis can just start businesses in the West? The normal Western people either won't join their companies, or will join them and give such poor performance the business will go bankrupt.

You do have some valid points but those can be VERY subjective so lets agree to disagree and focus on the images of Kabul.

 

[CriticalThought]

I wonder if the PAF and PA could try leasing Bagram and Shindad, and the remnant hardware. Pakistan can pay the new gov't for the facilities and hardware until the new Afghan establishment wants to take ownership. But until that point, they'll get paid to allow their neighbour to use and maintain the assets.

It's important to spotlight the reference point here -- "why would a financial institution lend money?" Basically, a ban on interest wouldn't make sense for commercial lending, there's no incentive. So, the point Islam might be making is that when someone needs money, there shouldn't be a commercial incentive to help them -- you should help the person for literally God's sake. Islam also recommends forgiving the loan if the person can't pay it back -- there's emphasis on sadaqah and giving your dunya in return for your aakhirah.

However, for such a system to work, someone has to channel liquidity into the economic system. If the incentive isn't commercial, then it shifts to economic interests. Who's job is that? It'd be the state or government, which -- in modern times -- isn't unheard of, today's governments did it (some at 0% interest) to generate a stimulus effect.

This is the fundamental mistake which Muslims make today. Islam bans usury/interest, it does not ban trade and profit making. Here is an age old argument that is made in favor of interest. When you read it, you will think interest is logical and the world cannot work without it. Then I will present the Islamic system and you will realize that this is a deceit perpetrated by non-Muslims.

In a fishing village A wants to invent a new fishing net that will improve the amount of fish catch by 10%. But since he is working on his invention, he cannot go out to fish for himself. B comes to his help and offers to give him 2 fish every day. B is sacrificing his own needs, so he wants A to give him back 2 fish for every fish he receives from B. Also, since B cannot wait forever, he gives A a period of 1 year to finalize his net before he needs to start paying.

This is interest according to Islamic teachings because the same type of thing - fish - is being exchanged, and more fish is being given than received. Here is how the Islamic system works.

B invests in A's venture by giving him 2 fish every day for 1 year. In turn, he now becomes a 40% business partner with A. When A finishes his net and start selling it, B will receive 40% of the profit . But if A's project fails, then B's investment also fails. Islam forces B to share the risk in the business venture. This is in stark contrast to capitalism which requires the borrower to pay back the amount no matter what. If A's venture fails, he is liable to give back all the fish to B, but no more. This liability is only to the extent that A is in possession of fish himself, or the means to acquire fish. B cannot force A to sell everything. If A has only 1 fish that he needs for himself, B cannot take it away. But if A has two fish and he only needs one, then he has to pay back B with one fish and keep doing this until his debt is paid.

This is my understanding but please verify this from a valid religious scholar before propagating it further. The intention isn't to teach you Islamic finance, rather, the philosophy of Islamic finance and exactly how it differs from the capitalist system. As you can see, the Islamic system is fair whereas the capitalist system is extortionist.

To truly understand Islam's view on interest, this is an invaluable article:

https://www.albalagh.net/Islamic_economics/riba_judgement.pdf

 

[GumNaam]

Query-
Quite confused, the entire forum seems is cheerleading for Taliban, @Irfan Baloch seems to suggest this as a negative development. The other senior Mods celebrating, Are Pakistanis in support of the Taliban , is the view divided, or are Pakistanis in general anti-taliban?

Pakistanis are generally pro taliban. if you spend 5 minutes worth of time, you will realize that what everyone is negative about is all these bhagoda afghanis who first stabbed their own country in the back and then, are running away with their tail between their legs in spite of having been given general amnesty and in spite of being treat like absolute turds by the american/uk evacuation forces.

 

[truthfollower]

Attaturk

"we take our inspirations not from the sky and the unseen but directly from life itself."

 

[Dalit]

"we take our inspirations not from the sky and the unseen but directly from life itself."

You a poet too now?

 

[truthfollower]

You a poet too now?

its a quote from Ataturk

 

[Menace2Society]

Query-
Quite confused, the entire forum seems is cheerleading for Taliban, @Irfan Baloch seems to suggest this as a negative development. The other senior Mods celebrating, Are Pakistanis in support of the Taliban , is the view divided, or are Pakistanis in general anti-taliban?

The Pakistani normie crowd are hoping this mean terrorism is over but this is clearly Afghanistan losing any form of organized government in the country, that is the unfortunate reality. Its not Elon Musk taking over is it, these guys look like they belong in a 80s soviet afghan war movie, haven't changed one bit. Lets see..