Kabhi apni shakal dekhi hai?

[forcetrip]

You need to revisit "YOUR" forum rules. It is open for all. Try "Force" as many times as you can do, You are cordially invited. You tried mutliple times and were failed, We tried a small attempt in 80s and got handful of Siachin.

"Your" forum doesn't give you a chance of being ill-logical or Delusional. If you want to carry on but then it simplifies that you dont care about people on either side. Regarding minority people, you need to revisit the Poll conducted there few years ago. Just to enlighten you, Jammu wants to be part of India and Laddakh as well. There are Shia majority areas which also want to remain with India. Then there comes sunni majority areas like Srinagar, Baramulla, Anantnag etc which is run by ISI backed agents.

Lets go .. Im all for it.. Lets go visit your province of Kashmir. Excluding Sringar, Baramulla and Anantnag etc.

 

[Pride]

Lets go .. Im all for it.. Lets go visit your province of Kashmir. Excluding Sringar, Baramulla and Anantnag etc.

If you want to travel you are more than welcome.

 

[forcetrip]

Really?? Read this article -

GILGIT: The arbitrary arrest of Gilgit-Baltistan United Movement (GBUM) Chairman Manzoor Hussain Parwana in Gilgit city the other day has drawn widespread condemnation from political forces and civil society from the region and abroad.

The GBUM chief was detained during a concerted operation of Pakistan’s law enforcement, agencies including the Rangers, Khyber Rifles and secret service personnel on July 28 when he had just finished addressing the annual convention of Balawaristan National Students Organization (BNSO) in Gilgit. Later, he was shifted to an unknown place by the secret service personnel for interrogation.
According to the FIR, he was arrested for expressing support to the
refugees of Ladakh in Gilgit-Baltistan who demand opening of the line
of control; demanding reinstatement of State Subject Rule in the
region, withdrawal of Pakistani security forces from the region and ensuring basic human rights for the occupied nation of Gilgit-Baltistan.
In their separate statements, Advocate Ehsan Ali, President of Gilgit-Baltistan Bar Association, Engineer Amanullah, Chairman of Gilgit-Baltistan Democratic Alliance, Safdar Ali, President of Balawaristan National Front, Ghulam Shehzad Agha, General Secretary of GBUM, Babajan Hunzai, Coordinator of Progressive Youth Front, and Tauseef Hassan, President of BNSO strongly condemned the arrest and termed it an attack on freedom of expression and political activity and illegal interference of Pakistani security forces in a UN-declared disputed region.

They stated that his arrest was an effort of Pakistani occupying forces to promote state-led terrorism in Gilgit-Baltistan; derail India-Pakistan peace process and defame the nationalist forces, which demand complete withdrawal of occupying forces from their land.
Safdar Ali stated that Manzoor had been charged under section 123A,
124A and 153A of Pakistan penal code, which is an immoral and illegal
act of the law enforcement agencies since these sections do not apply
to the permanent residents of a disputed territory lying outside
the constitutional boundary of Pakistan. Pakistan is a signatory to
the resolutions passed by the United Nations Commission on India and
Pakistan assuring withdraw of her forces and citizens from
Gilgit-Baltistan and other parts of Kashmir. However, it has continued
military escalation, amassing more than forty thousand personnel in
the region, which is a clear violation of international laws.
Baba Jan Hunzai demanded release of all political prisoners of
Gilgit-Baltistan and an end to apartheid in South Asia. Similar
appeals have come from political activists of Kargil district in Indian
Ladakh, requesting opening of the line of control and reunification of
Gilgit-Baltistan with the rest of Ladakh.
In his press release, Ghulam Shehzad Agha said: “Detention of
political activists continues in Pakistan and its occupied regions
despite assurances of the prime minister to the international
community of upholding democracy and freedom of political activity and
expression. People of Gilgit-Baltistan cannot be booked for treason
since they are not citizens of Pakistan. If supporting the refugees of
Ladakh to promote their birth right of free travel, and socio-economic
activity is a crime, then GBUM will continue to commit it. GBUM will
support rally of the Ladakhi refugees towards the line of control even
after the arrest of Manzoor Parwana.” Agha also condemned Pakistani
establishment for awarding illegal mining licenses to the Chinese
companies, who have their eyes set on uranium rich mineral deposits of
Gilgit-Baltistan.
Manzoor is currently fighting a sedition case for criticizing Pakistani military for their misgivings during the Kargil War of 1999.
His publication called Kargil International Magazine was also banned
during the same time for exposing military crimes. He remains vocal
demanding freedom for Gilgit Baltistan which remains in Pakistani
occupation since 1947.
The Gilgit Baltistan National Congress (GBNC), Washington, also condemned ‘abduction’ of Manzoor Parwana. Senge Sering of the GBNC requested international human rights organizations including Freedom House, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International to take immediate action in this regard. GBNC also requests the United Nations, American Congress, the European Parliament and Saarc to take immediate notice of the failing human rights situation in occupied Gilgit Baltistan.
GBNC calls for demilitarization of Gilgit-Baltistan, promotion of
genuine autonomy and democracy, withdrawal of extremist elements,
re-instatement of state subject rule and people to people contact
between Ladakh and Gilgit-Baltistan. It asks the United Nations to
play its role in empowering local political institutions and ensuring
freedom of expression and political activity.
The Gilgit-Baltistan Labour Party and Progressive Youth Front also strongly condemned the arrest of Mr Parwana and termed it a fascist action of government and intelligence agencies. It is the worst type of human rights violation. The so-called puppet Chief Minister Mehdi Shah and his toothless government was even not aware of this barbaric action of state forces against nationalist political workers of Gilgit-Baltistan.
The only reason behind this state terrorism is just to suppress nationalist and revolutionary movement in GB. We appeal to the oppressed people of GB to come forward and accelerate their struggle against the pro-imperialist and pro-capitalist corrupt rulers and capitalist system.

http://k4kashmir.com/?p=4719

After our Kashmir trip we can go visit this subdued province as well. Talk to some people on both sides. See what they remember happened or is happening.

 

[forcetrip]

If you want to travel you are more than welcome.

Thats kind of rude.. I would love to have you along so that one of us might come a conclusion what the people want. Maybe I might be wrong in my conclusions on Kashmir and Gigit. Talking out of a keyboard will only take us so far.

 

[Pride]

After our Kashmir trip we can go visit this subdued province as well. Talk to some people on both sides. See what they remember happened or is happening.

I dont know about your side but I have been to my side of Kashmir. Now let me tell you about my "personal" opinion. I dont know how do you care about that but still, let me tell you.

I went to Jammu, A majority Hindu area and then Sikh population. People dont care about Kashmir Region and they have some sort of personal grudge as well as most of Kashmiri pandits migrated to Jammu during early 90s. Hence they dont care about this Kashmir Freedom. My Proj Mngr is also a Kashmiri Pandit and his personal opinion is same.

Then I moved to Srinagar, People are angry here or Say very angry. Reason suppression/oppression/ Presence of Army/ Murders/ Political Drama/ Too much of Bandh so in one word "Life is Hell' here mostly. But then there is very interesting angle here, They dont have problems with Indians here but deep hatred for Army. This does not subdue here they equally hate Lashkars here but the only problem is they cant openly comment as then they can become target next time. Schools are close, work gets disturbed forced to attend Geelani's or others meeting. Religious extremism is also on top. Youngsters dont bother about Kashmiri Pandits but Old aged does. Most of Srinagar Muslims kids are studying in various universties of India including Mr Geelani. Just to quote 2 Kashmiri muslims were batchmates of my wife during her medical studies in Chennai.

Laddakh/Leh: What is Kashmir and freedom? They all say it is drama. These are very simple and normal people, living in toughest conditions (geographically) and focus about earn to live. You will never here a word about Kashmir/Srinagar, Those are only name of cities which connects them. So they are happy in their small world maximu they goto Himachal Pradesh as their Buddhist Leader Dalai Lama stays there.

 

[Pride]

Thats kind of rude.. I would love to have you along so that one of us might come a conclusion what the people want. Maybe I might be wrong in my conclusions on Kashmir and Gigit. Talking out of a keyboard will only take us so far.

Actually it is not rude dear, I get excited when people dont see or realize ground realities and just talk. Anyways no offence meant to you. Please read my post with personal analysis.

 

[forcetrip]

Actually it is not rude dear, I get excited when people dont see or realize ground realities and just talk. Anyways no offence meant to you. Please read my post with personal analysis.

I want to do something other than talk and read. Because it will not solve our discussion. I could let you read up on Agnostic Muslims previous comments over the years if you want to answer your queries. He is a much better historian then I am. I deal in practical facts, right now. What better way to make it a road trip and convince yourself than that? If you want to continue reading what other people say, then by all means continue doing what you are doing.

 

[Pride]

I want to do something other than talk and read. Because it will not solve our discussion. I could let you read up on Agnostic Muslims previous comments over the years if you want to answer your queries. He is a much better historian then I am. I deal in practical facts, right now. What better way to make it a road trip and convince yourself than that? If you want to continue reading what other people say, then by all means continue doing what you are doing.

I gave you my personal trip's opinion what else can be a reality check for me in my Side. Regarding AM, Just check how many times we had debate on this in Kashmir issues but now it is closed for Senior members. I dont want you and I be on same point but just to normalize this case the best thing is "Status Quo" and close the matter here itself. I am not asking Azad Kashmir or GB but not giving our side of Kashmir either based on religion.

Once ISI backed Laskhars stop coming to disturbed area and IA start moving out of Kashmir, Life of our beloved Kashmiri (or Humans in simplest terms) will be much better. After that do lobbying, Diplomacy, political movement or whatever, I dont care, but lets not fight on it and make life hell for others.

 

[forcetrip]

I gave you my personal trip's opinion what else can be a reality check for me in my Side. Regarding AM, Just check how many times we had debate on this in Kashmir issues but now it is closed for Senior members. I dont want you and I be on same point but just to normalize this case the best thing is "Status Quo" and close the matter here itself. I am not asking Azad Kashmir or GB but not giving our side of Kashmir either based on religion.

Once ISI backed Laskhars stop coming to disturbed area and IA start moving out of Kashmir, Life of our beloved Kashmiri (or Humans in simplest terms) will be much better. After that do lobbying, Diplomacy, political movement or whatever, I dont care, but lets not fight on it and make life hell for others.

Sorry I read them a little late. They are pretty accurate as much as can be from a hindu. The main problem will be the overwhelming force inside the city. Would you say that daily life is a struggle of a Kashmiri? Would you like to go through options that are agreeable to the Kashmiris and Indians? Pakistan has no say because it is not occupied or administered by them. Ask the Kashmiris as citizens of India to fight off these ISI backed lashkars. The amount of army that is deployed is unrealistic. Has to make sense for the two of you. Anyway like you said the smarter one will will the battle for the land, without the people on your side it just keeps the issue from dying out.

 

[LURKER]

QUOTE: " What will happen if India does not do as UN reolution saying is one day both countries will be histroy in 15 30mins since both will nuke each other. One and only hindu country will be history and there will be still many muslim countries. Taliban will have open road to India which India looking as enemy and will take over all India. So decide what u wana to find a peace full solution ? Are die as only one hindu country."

India is not a hindu country

 

[Pride]

Sorry I read them a little late. They are pretty accurate as much as can be from a hindu. The main problem will be the overwhelming force inside the city. Would you say that daily life is a struggle of a Kashmiri? Would you like to go through options that are agreeable to the Kashmiris and Indians? Pakistan has no say because it is not occupied or administered by them. Ask the Kashmiris as citizens of India to fight off these ISI backed lashkars. The amount of army that is deployed is unrealistic. Has to make sense for the two of you. Anyway like you said the smarter one will will the battle for the land, without the people on your side it just keeps the issue from dying out.

I hated it when you conveyed as I am born hindu but have different belief and I claim them as my own and not by any book.

Who says Kashmiris dont fight with such terrorists, they do. I may give ample of examples but I leave it upto you to seacrh.

I hate army/police at my doorstep when it happened 2-3 times when there was curfew in my locality hence I can easily u'stand the feelings for citizen of Kashmir and Jammu. There are some inhuman officers are also there who did "cold blooded" murder and they are fighting for destiny in court.

But then why Army or Police is there in Kashmir? Just think. If we dont do it, We can have anytime attack on "Hazrat Bal Mosque" or "Raghunath temple". There can be 100s of Lashkars can come and Blast in. If we do not have more army here then our neighbous anytime can start "operation Gibralter" or Lashkar Movement (Read Kargil Conflict). We need to save the borders, dont we?

Now the prob comes, Pak says first you stop then we will do, India says "No, You stop first ". Then comes the people who has profit due to this conflict. Kashmiri Politicians getting money from Pak. PA and IA gets unquestioned money for J&K hence more corruption so more money. Diplomats, Buereaucrats and Lobbyists gets money for propaganda. Islamic institutions gets money from all over the world on the name of Islamic suppression in Kashmir. Do you think they want to stop the flow? Nope.. Never

 

[Manas]

India is a country, not a club that regions can join in or part away at will.

If anyone don't feel like living in India or calling himself indian , i say get the hell out of India . But the land , be it kashmir or any other place will remain within india as india.

 

[forcetrip]

I hated it when you conveyed as I am born hindu but have different belief and I claim them as my own and not by any book.

Who says Kashmiris dont fight with such terrorists, they do. I may give ample of examples but I leave it upto you to seacrh.

I hate army/police at my doorstep when it happened 2-3 times when there was curfew in my locality hence I can easily u'stand the feelings for citizen of Kashmir and Jammu. There are some inhuman officers are also there who did "cold blooded" murder and they are fighting for destiny in court.

But then why Army or Police is there in Kashmir? Just think. If we dont do it, We can have anytime attack on "Hazrat Bal Mosque" or "Raghunath temple". There can be 100s of Lashkars can come and Blast in. If we do not have more army here then our neighbous anytime can start "operation Gibralter" or Lashkar Movement (Read Kargil Conflict). We need to save the borders, dont we?

Now the prob comes, Pak says first you stop then we will do, India says "No, You stop first ". Then comes the people who has profit due to this conflict. Kashmiri Politicians getting money from Pak. PA and IA gets unquestioned money for J&K hence more corruption so more money. Diplomats, Buereaucrats and Lobbyists gets money for propaganda. Islamic institutions gets money from all over the world on the name of Islamic suppression in Kashmir. Do you think they want to stop the flow? Nope.. Never

Never once have I suggested that the Indian's are not doing what is necessary. They have to do what is in the countries best interest. Unfortunately from what I know as facts that is not in the best interest of the Kashmiri muslims. I understand your concept of being offended by me bringing up religion in this subject but like you pointed out before The muslims in your administered Kashmir kicked out the hindu's according to you. So it is a religion thing at the roots. You guys can continue to say that it will always be yours and we can keep saying we will take what's ours one day. Till something changes lets not assume that the Kashmiris are having a ball in that part. Thats all I wanted to say to begin with.