Jumhoriat ka Husan | A Rebuttal to 'Army's questionable decisions' by DAWN.

[Kompromat]

 

[tarrar]

What have we finally learned from all this political crises, starting from PPP & all the way till here is, we have finally found out that PPP, PML-N, ANP, JUI & other political parties hate & reject Quaid E Azam, Allama Mohammed Iqbal & etc. & they hate Pakistan, it is proven because they use Pakistan for their personal interests which is growing their businesses & it has been proven that most of the corrupt political parties are having full foreign support & these corrupt politicians have spilled venom against Pakistan, Pakistan ideology, Two Nation theory & Pakistan, to help these corrupt politicians they have brothers which are media led by GEO.

People who support PML-N I request them for GOD sakes please open your eyes, they don't care at all how much you love them & they have proven it.

I don't support PTI & PAT because I have differences with them but what I do like about them is, in their every speech they talk about what Quaid E Azam wanted, why Pakistan was created & so on.

PA is Pakistan's clean institute & only institute who love Pakistan & they give lives for Pakistan. The end result of all this mess is INSHAALLAH PA will take over & save Pakistan from all these corrupt politicians who have no love for Pakistan & are continuing to harm Pakistan in every possible way, every day under these corrupt politicians is filthy corruption & mega crimes against Pakistan. When ever PA takes over I will stand with them & they will have my full support, though this is not an option but there is no other option.

People living in Pakistan don't feel or face what we Pakistanis living abroad have to face from the people of the country & bloody Indians who are very expertly spilling venom against Pakistan & they convince the local people that Pakistan is nothing. Don't worry I know how to defend my Pakistan & I hope you all Pakistanis do the same.

 

[Jazzbot]

Slightly off topic, but people of Pakistan must understand one thing clearly. Instead of indulging in fights whether IK should do these protests or not, whether IK should form alliance with TuQ or not, whether IK should derail this so called democracy or not, whether IK should spread this so called anarchy in the country or not? We should consider this as a fight against family limited status quo rule in this country.

If IK is defeated today, what will be the outcome? Probably, IK's political carrier will be over? Probably, IK will have to face serious cases against him? Probably, most unlikely, he will run out of this country and live rest of his life comfortably outside Pakistan?

What will happen next? We don't know, for how many years to come, we'll have to live under the leadership of Hamza Shahbaz, Maryam Nawaz, Bilawal Bhutto, Munas Elahi and the lot. There will be no one to oppose them or challenge them for many years to come. And then who knows when we are going to have next leader like IK who will stand up to challenge this status quo.

Its now or never for us Pakistanis. Raise your voice against status quo and family limited mafias. If these forces will win today, don't come complaining about it later because this will be solely our own decision.

A beautiful quote:

 

[Xeric]

@Horus Thankyou for editing the piece.

Please forgive any syntax errors as this was the 'fastest' writing i have ever done - wrote it just under 2 hours as i was in no mood of writing (most of the thinking was done while i was on a smoking break (dont do it infront of kids) in the bathroom at 4 am in the morning)

Those who missed Dawn's editorial can find it here:

Army’s questionable decisions

Army’s questionable decisions - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

--------------------------
Read the piece on my blog: Xeric's Primer: Jamhuriat Ka Husn

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Jumhoriat ka Husan

 

[Kompromat]

@Xeric

Youre welcome

I had the same feeling when i was reading it. You know something called a 'maroor uthna'

 

[Xeric]

@Xeric

Youre welcome

I had the same feeling when i was reading it. You know something called a 'maroor uthna'

Lolzz...

i had read Dawn's editorial a day earlier and didnt feel like even commenting on it, but then later that night while i was busy bringing Inqilab in the bathroom i thought it was better to nip the evil in its bud. i have heard of PMLN paying off certain jurnos, but didnt expect this from Dawn - they have simply missed half of ISPR's statements!

@SBD-3

You were saying something about Okara?

 

[Kompromat]

DAWN is on the side of the Hannibal.

 

[Sardar Anees Abbasi]

Pakistan Need Marshal law only on this current situation if Pakistan want very Power full in the World.

 

[Sedqal]

I have major disagreements with the article:

1- Decisions taken by military regarding its internal matter do effect the life of Pakistanis in their individual capacity when military has committed illegal coups and has been directly ruling Pakistan for more then 35 years (i.e. more then half its life). The problem become far more pronounced when we realize that every major political party today has been nurtured by military and military has taken an immense interest (as an institution) in manipulating political parties which resulted in forward groups which were willing to join military dictators. It is on state record now that military under the command of Musharraf blackmailed parliamentarians into leaving PMLN and joining PMLQ (not hearsay its a matter of state record, this happened earlier with PPP too). The primary tool used to threaten, torture and blackmail publicly elected parliamentarians for this purpose was not ISI but MI (Military Intelligence).

2- The scope of what is considered military related is incredibly complicated, it is not limited to matters internal to military as an organization but includes major aspects of foreign policy (a blanket control over all foreign policy issues pertaining to India, Afghanistan and USA) and even regional policies in Baluchistan and some parts of KPK when elected governments are there. Keep in mind that trade relations with India and Afghanistan do effect every Pakistani in this day and age. It also includes a commercial empire where military has brazenly used its influence to carve up the most lucrative deals for its commercial enterprises at the expense of the state. Case in point Pakistan Railways was among the most profitable public venture in Pakistan, military during a martial law (Zia the momin) took over the freight operations under NLC - at first it was supposed to be a small percentage of total freight but interestingly a retired Brig was made head of committee overlooking the distribution. The good Brig. carved up the distribution in such a way that NLC got the very best deals. To get an idea Pakistan Railway counted for 65% of total freight in 1980, in 2009 it was down to merely 15%. Profits of NLC were essentially built on the losses of Pakistan Railways (NLC employs retd. army officers while Railway hires the shoodars). DHA and Askari are similarly get blanket support from military as an organization. Military is now all set for opening up a television channel too - perhaps they have realized the lucrative business opportunities it provides.

3- There is a screwed up notion of popular vote in military, when military does not want to obey orders from an elected civilian government rumors of how there is 'baichaini' anxiety in jawans are spread, the anxiety keeps on increasing till civilian government throws in the towel and agrees to the latest lunacy of military. Rumors are if this anxiety reaches critical heights the higher command can not ignore the popular vote and has to take drastic measures like attacking the parliament and taking the civilian leadership under custody - if anxiety is too extreme there might be incidents of torture too. A weird coincidence that when dictators rule for decades the jawans never get any anxiety attacks. We can only chant Subhanllah at this beautiful coincidence.

4- Coming to the main issue, the editorial in DAWN is spot on, after govt has imposed 245 military is responsible for the buildings given under their control. Once open vandalism took place military was supposed to arrest the culprits not 'request' the culprits to remove themsleves from the premises. Those thugs damaged state property and PTV is the state broadcasting system which holds some symbolic value too. Pertinent question to ask is if Military would show same humanity, peacefulness and tolerance if it was BLA or Taliban occupying the building.This point was raised in Pariament too with parliamentarians from KPK, Sindh and Baluchistan questioning why there are double standards for Punjabis and others.

5- The notification from ISPR was clearly biased as it asked the elected Government to show restraint while absolutely clear and obvious inflammatory actions and intentions by both IK and TuQ were ignored. For example TuQ has already declared that he will hang the PM and has already asked his followers to lay siege to the parliament. The primary question DAWN editorial is making is how military could have acted when someone tried to lay siege to GHQ and it makes perfect sense. When the hooligans of TuQ and IK are damaging state property the call to their bosses (elected Govt) not to use violence (police) is tantamount to asking them to let the agitators wreck the whole parliament.

6- This attempt at whitewash ignores a main point of editorial that elected party president of PTI (the party whose hooligans are attacking) has confessed in-front of national media that Army was the mains sponsor behind this controlled chaos - thus this act of vandalizing parliament is through a properly laid down plan. Considering the confession the question if Military would tolerate a similar attack on GHQ makes a lot of sense.

(It should be noted that the article includes a picture inspired by Bollywood composed of pictures of ex-COAS,. It does not include the picture of notorious drunkard and womanizer Yahya Khan, a modern Nero born in Pakistan who was literally screwing prostitutes in a never ending drunken spur at the very moment a war was going on in East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh). Please be warned that it is not hearsay, there was a case against this man and military officers recorded testimony in court of law how dictator Yahya called in various women in his house or went over to brothels. The judge inquired how he could do it brazenly to which a close confidante replied we told sahib what you are doing is great sin but he didn't listen to us. Mashallah, such tolerance for debauchery by Ghayur jawans when it comes to their khaki sahibs, brings tears to my eyes. Mind it that even when it was officially accepted by Army that Yahya literally screwerd away East Pakistan at his death he was given a full military burial with all honors (thus the point that prestige of military as an organization overrules the prestige of Pakistan as a state was firmly established).

As a matter of record I am including the picture of Dictator Yahya, a shameful character does not mean that he should be removed from the star-ridden poster of other criminals who abrogated the constitution and committed illegal coups.

Yahya Khan enjoying the company of a famous actress/ singer Noor Jehan who was one of his many (only) military conquests. This picture was taken exactly 6 days before the fall of East Pakistan.Sigh! if only India was a flat plump hore, Yahya would've ripped her apart.

Pakistan Need Marshal law only on this current situation if Pakistan want very Power full in the World.

We no longer want powerful, we only want democracy - please no more powerful, very weak legs no longer carry powerful.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Lolzz...

i had read Dawn's editorial a day earlier and didnt feel like even commenting on it, but then later that night while i was busy bringing Inqilab in the bathroom i thought it was better to nip the evil in its bud. i have heard of PMLN paying off certain jurnos, but didnt expect this from Dawn - they have simply missed half of ISPR's statements!

@SBD-3

You were saying something about Okara?

I believe it is not the serving officers who are being questioned.

In fact there are some of these dimwit retired brigadiers and generals who are creating a whole lot of $hit right now.

We all know who they are, so no need to name names.

People who have followed me on this forum know that I am among the biggest supporters of Pak army.

So anyone ready to jump on this post! Stop it.


Coming back to the topic.


Dawn and other "bloody" civilians do need to be educated about the difference between Parliament (people's house) vs. GHQ (our source of national defense).

But that is hardly the point here. No one really wants to equate GHQ with parliament. The issue is the abuse of the army institution by the likes of Sheikh Rashid, ZH, and even IK.

So many well wishers of Pak army have not condemned Sheikh Rashid and Imran Khan for dragging Pak army into civilian mess.

Where was the ISPR for the last one year that Beghairat SR was $hitting openly on talk shows daily insinuating that Pak army will topple NS gov.

OK. OK. So one can ignore this bhonpoo SR by saying he is a moron, a dumb idiot, and so ignore him.

But then begharatee went to the very top when Irman khan made thinly veiled references to the UMPIRE.

Why the heck ISPR did not shut this blabbering idiot up by saying "do not malign our name", do not drag pak army by making umpire references.

My brother Xeric, there is too much mess, too much bad history on part of some terrible generals too.

And that my brother, brings more bad name to Pak army than any dawn editorial can ever do.



Having said that,

Qadri and Imran types should be investigated by Pak army for their links to a small group of moronic retired generals.

Then instead of saying anything to TUQ or IK, these generals should be warned by Pak army not to interfere in political process through illegal means and conspiracies.

Hope you understand.

Best regards

 

[jha]

I have major disagreements with the article:

1- Decisions taken by military regarding its internal matter do effect the life of Pakistanis in their individual capacity when military has committed illegal coups and has been directly ruling Pakistan for more then 35 years (i.e. more then half its life). The problem become far more pronounced when we realize that every major political party today has been nurtured by military and military has taken an immense interest (as an institution) in manipulating political parties which resulted in forward groups which were willing to join military dictators. It is on state record now that military under the command of Musharraf blackmailed parliamentarians into leaving PMLN and joining PMLQ (not hearsay its a matter of state record, this happened earlier with PPP too). The primary tool used to threaten, torture and blackmail publicly elected parliamentarians for this purpose was not ISI but MI (Military Intelligence).

2- The scope of what is considered military related is incredibly complicated, it is not limited to matters internal to military as an organization but includes major aspects of foreign policy (a blanket control over all foreign policy issues pertaining to India, Afghanistan and USA) and even regional policies in Baluchistan and some parts of KPK when elected governments are there. Keep in mind that trade relations with India and Afghanistan do effect every Pakistani in this day and age. It also includes a commercial empire where military has brazenly used its influence to carve up the most lucrative deals for its commercial enterprises at the expense of the state. Case in point Pakistan Railways was among the most profitable public venture in Pakistan, military during a martial law (Zia the momin) took over the freight operations under NLC - at first it was supposed to be a small percentage of total freight but interestingly a retired Brig was made head of committee overlooking the distribution. The good Brig. carved up the distribution in such a way that NLC got the very best deals. To get an idea Pakistan Railway counted for 65% of total freight in 1980, in 2009 it was down to merely 15%. Profits of NLC were essentially built on the losses of Pakistan Railways (NLC employs retd. army officers while Railway hires the shoodars). DHA and Askari are similarly get blanket support from military as an organization. Military is now all set for opening up a television channel too - perhaps they have realized the lucrative business opportunities it provides.

3- There is a screwed up notion of popular vote in military, when military does not want to obey orders from an elected civilian government rumors of how there is 'baichaini' anxiety in jawans are spread, the anxiety keeps on increasing till civilian government throws in the towel and agrees to the latest lunacy of military. Rumors are if this anxiety reaches critical heights the higher command can not ignore the popular vote and has to take drastic measures like attacking the parliament and taking the civilian leadership under custody - if anxiety is too extreme there might be incidents of torture too. A weird coincidence that when dictators rule for decades the jawans never get any anxiety attacks. We can only chant Subhanllah at this beautiful coincidence.

4- Coming to the main issue, the editorial in DAWN is spot on, after govt has imposed 245 military is responsible for the buildings given under their control. Once open vandalism took place military was supposed to arrest the culprits not 'request' the culprits to remove themsleves from the premises. Those thugs damaged state property and PTV is the state broadcasting system which holds some symbolic value too. Pertinent question to ask is if Military would show same humanity, peacefulness and tolerance if it was BLA or Taliban occupying the building.This point was raised in Pariament too with parliamentarians from KPK, Sindh and Baluchistan questioning why there are double standards for Punjabis and others.

5- The notification from ISPR was clearly biased as it asked the elected Government to show restraint while absolutely clear and obvious inflammatory actions and intentions by both IK and TuQ were ignored. For example TuQ has already declared that he will hand the PM and has already asked his followers to lay siege to the parliament. The primary question DAWN editorial is making is how military could have acted when someone tried to lay siege to GHQ and it makes perfect sense. When the hooligans of TuQ and IK are damaging state property the call to their bosses (elected Govt) not to use violence (police) is tantamount to asking them to let the agitators wreck the whole parliament.

(It should be noted that the article includes a picture inspired by Bollywood composed of pictures of ex-COAS,. It does not include the picture of notorious drunkard and womanizer Yahya Khan, a modern Nero born in Pakistan who was literally screwing prostitutes in a never ending drunken spur at the very moment a war was going on in East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh). Please be warned that it is not hearsay, there was a case against this man and military officers recorded testimony in court of law how dictator Yahya called in various women in his house or went over to brothels. The judge inquired how he could do it brazenly to which a close confidante replied we told sahib what you are doing is great sin but he didn't listen to us. Mashallah, such tolerance for debauchery by Ghayur jawans when it comes to their khaki sahibs, brings tears to my eyes. Mind it that even when it was officially accepted by Army that Yahya literally screwerd away East Pakistan at his death he was given a full military burial with all honors (thus the point that prestige of military as an organization overrules the prestige of Pakistan as a state was firmly established).

As a matter of record I am including the picture of Dictator Yahya, a shameful character does not mean that he should be removed from the star-ridden poster of other criminals who abrogated the constitution and committed illegal coups.

Yahya Khan enjoying the company of a famous actress/ singer Noor Jehan who was one of his many (only) military conquests. This picture was taken exactly 6 days before the fall of East Pakistan.



We no longer want powerful, we only want democracy - please no more powerful, very weak legs no longer carry powerful.

Wow....

 

[SBD-3]

I believe it is not the serving officers who are being questioned.

In fact there are some of these dimwit retired brigadiers and generals who are creating a whole lot of $hit right now.

We all know who they are, so no need to name names.

People who have followed me on this forum know that I am among the biggest supporters of Pak army.

So anyone ready to jump on this post! Stop it.


Coming back to the topic.


Dawn and other "bloody" civilians do need to be educated about the difference between Parliament (people's house) vs. GHQ (our source of national defense).

But that is hardly the point here. No one really wants to equate GHQ with parliament. The issue is the abuse of the army institution by the likes of Sheikh Rashid, ZH, and even IK.

So many well wishers of Pak army have not condemned Sheikh Rashid and Imran Khan for dragging Pak army into civilian mess.

Where was the ISPR for the last one year that Beghairat SR was $hitting openly on talk shows daily saying Pak army will topple NS gov.

OK. OK. So one can ignore this bhonpoo SR by saying he is a moron, a dumb idiot, and so ignore him.

But then begharatee went to the very top when Irman khan made thinly veiled references to the UMPIRE.

Why the heck ISPR did not shut this blabbering idiot up by saying "do not malign our name", do not drag pak army by making umpire references.

My brother Xeric, there is too much mess, too much bad history on part of some terrible generals too.

And that my brother, brings more bad name to Pak army than any dawn editorial can ever do.



Having said that,

Qadri and Imran types should be investigated by Pak army for their links to a small group of moronic retired generals.

Then instead of saying anything to TUQ or IK, these generals should be warned by Pak army not to interfere in political process through illegal means and conspiracies.

Hope you understand.

Best regards

The first heads to roll should be those in ISPR. Like I said before for 14 days these self proclaimed "analysts" were willfully dragging army and ISI to gain some sensational coverage. But ISPR's rebuttal came too late, until the damage was done. Furthermore, ISPR also needs to work on its phrasing skills. But I find it more disturbing that even after ISPR has categorically denied Military/ISI's role in current fiasco, the chatter isn't dying down. Like someone said,"Though my sources have also confirmed that Gen Raheel has advised NS to resign but as a Pakistani after the ISPR has issued a clear statement, I would rather prefer to put my weight behind the ISPR's statement though I don't have even a slightest doubt about the integrity of my news sources". Army now has to send this dharna packing and concentrate on Zarb-e-Azb as the fallout has apparently started (15 station being hit in Karachi today). And teach some manners to the retired rumor spreading band of generals. As for me Army is not just the Gen Raheel, but word also represents our soldiers who have put their lives on the line in FATA against TTP. Its high time for the Army to introduce the culture of strict accountability as the individual acts have long reflected badly upon the entire institution.

 

[Xeric]

I have major disagreements with the article:

1- Decisions taken by military regarding its internal matter do effect the life of Pakistanis in their individual capacity when military has committed illegal coups and has been directly ruling Pakistan for more then 35 years (i.e. more then half its life).

i hope you know the difference between internal and external matters?

My emphasis was purely on administrative issues within the Army.

The problem become far more pronounced when we realize that every major political party today has been nurtured by military and military has taken an immense interest (as an institution) in manipulating political parties which resulted in forward groups which were willing to join military dictators. It is on state record now that military under the command of Musharraf blackmailed parliamentarians into leaving PMLN and joining PMLQ (not hearsay its a matter of state record, this happened earlier with PPP too). The primary tool used to threaten, torture and blackmail publicly elected parliamentarians for this purpose was not ISI but MI (Military Intelligence).

That's what the Army is NOT trying to do this time, but still butt hurt, why?

A hundred and one reasons are there today for the military to take over and / or support a group / party, but it doesnt.

2- The scope of what is considered military related is incredibly complicated, it is not limited to matters internal to military as an organization but includes major aspects of foreign policy (a blanket control over all foreign policy issues pertaining to India, Afghanistan and USA) and even regional policies in Baluchistan and some parts of KPK when elected governments are there. Keep in mind that trade relations with India and Afghanistan do effect every Pakistani in this day and age. It also includes a commercial empire where military has brazenly used its influence to carve up the most lucrative deals for its commercial enterprises at the expense of the state. Case in point Pakistan Railways was among the most profitable public venture in Pakistan, military during a martial law (Zia the momin) took over the freight operations under NLC - at first it was supposed to be a small percentage of total freight but interestingly a retired Brig was made head of committee overlooking the distribution. The good Brig. carved up the distribution in such a way that NLC got the very best deals. To get an idea Pakistan Railway counted for 65% of total freight in 1980, in 2009 it was down to merely 15%. Profits of NLC were essentially built on the losses of Pakistan Railways (NLC employs retd. army officers while Railway hires the shoodars). DHA and Askari are similarly get blanket support from military as an organization. Military is now all set for opening up a television channel too - perhaps they have realized the lucrative business opportunities it provides.

This is off topic.

And you think it was NLC that destroyed Railways? Really? What about the transport mafia? Just to quote you an example a friend of a friend was promoted to an executive designation in the Railways. The first day on his new he comes back home and finds unknown people waiting of him. On inquiring it is found that they are transporters who have been waiting fro him since afternoon and that they have brought loads of cash. There demand, just keep the railways as it no need to do a tosh to improve its condition, and that he would keep on receiving this cash automatically every month.

i being in the Army have to break home frequently and have to shift my luggage. Even though i want to transport it via freight train but then i know it would be useless. Instead i had to pay thrice the amount to truckers to do it for me. But what i want to bring out is that i dont use NLC, it is the private thaikedars who have brought down Railways.

3- There is a screwed up notion of popular vote in military, when military does not want to obey orders from an elected civilian government rumors of how there is 'baichaini' anxiety in jawans are spread, the anxiety keeps on increasing till civilian government throws in the towel and agrees to the latest lunacy of military. Rumors are if this anxiety reaches critical heights the higher command can not ignore the popular vote and has to take drastic measures like attacking the parliament and taking the civilian leadership under custody - if anxiety is too extreme there might be incidents of torture too. A weird coincidence that when dictators rule for decades the jawans never get any anxiety attacks. We can only chant Subhanllah at this beautiful coincidence.

You have misunderstood.

What i meant by 'popular vote' is that is a CO of a unit will not and cannot increase reduce the duty hours if his soldiers feel that they are too long just because there is a 'baichaini' among soldiers. Nor can he take actions to please them as can be done in any private business. For instance, distributor of produce of my factory one fine morning feels that he is not being paid enough and thus he decides to up the ante and ask for more, failing which i has the option for protesting or launching a strike against the factory administration. No such 'joy' in the military, hence no reason/cause for a protest (outside the GHQ).

And yes, military takes 'anxiety' of its soldiers very seriously, every military does. But when you say jawan never get anxiety attack when a dictator rules, you are mistaken. You probably have no idea what it was like and what the soldiers felt during Musharraf's rule, especially when his popularity had declined.

You guys forget that soldiers come from the same civilian lot you work with, and thus thay have (almost) the same feelings. So, when Musharraf was popular among the masses, he was also popular among the soldiers and officer, but once he being abused day in and day out, similar feelings were also thet withing the Army.

4- Coming to the main issue, the editorial in DAWN is spot on, after govt has imposed 245 military is responsible for the buildings given under their control. Once open vandalism took place military was supposed to arrest the culprits not 'request' the culprits to remove themsleves from the premises. Those thugs damaged state property and PTV is the state broadcasting system which holds some symbolic value too. Pertinent question to ask is if Military would show same humanity, peacefulness when tolerance if it was BLA or Taliban occupying the building.

Here's where you guys go wrong.

255 doesnot mean to shoot everyone on the onset of an illegal activity. The soldiers there were pitched against own people, not terrorists. And when you compare those people (irrespective of the fact that i dont condone their actions nor do i debate that whether they were peacful or otherwise) with TTP or BLA bastards, it tells me that there is something drastically wrong with your thinking.

Thus, as i have clearly mentioned in my blog that there were two options for the military there, one to shoot the first guy who broke into Parliament's lawn or two, warn them of the consequences and make them stop. Now if you would for a moment stop thinking like Mr Gullu Butt, you would understand that the latter was a better choice especially it was Pak Army against Pakistani citizens in Islamabad and not the US Army against Afghans in Kabul.

As regards their arrest, even the Police didnt arrest the protestors barring a few who were trouble makers. But then when the protestors barging into the Parliament adhered to Army's warning and instructions and STOPPED, there was no question of arresting them.

What you need to understand is that this attempt of Nawaz Sharif to pitch the Army against civilians was a dangerous move and it can go side ways very easily and thus had to be dealt with utmost care. Unlike Punjab/Pakistan Police, a Pakistani soldier thinks before he is about to shoot a civilian even though he was 'armed' with a danda.

BTW, just to remind you, riot control means, use riot control agents like teargas, rubber bullets not live ammo. Even if live ammo is used the priority is to injure/disable/neutralize and NOT kill the 3,4 or 7 of those dudes who are the real trouble creators among the mob who are actually instigating the mob and not the entire mob. That's the basic rule and commonsense. Even if Army was to use live ammo, it would target the area below the torso of an individual so as to disable him and not kill him, unlike the Police who was miraculously able to kill humans with 'rubber' bullets.

i am sure you must have seen the pic of injured protestors on fb and twitter. How many of them do you see without a head or chest/back injury?

i think in addition to the Police, you also need to read the Riot/Mob Control Manual.

If you want the Army to behave like what the Police had done on that night, i am sorry you will be disappointed. But the make no mistake, Army will also not carry this stigma that protestors were able to actually break into the Parliament building or was able to injure the inhabitants. We will f**k the shyt out of anyone crossing the red lines, when it comes to that, provided it comes to that.

5- The notification from ISPR was clearly biased as it asked the elected Government to show restraint while absolutely clear and obvious inflammatory actions and intentions by both IK and TuQ were ignored.

You probably want that Army should have instead said that kill as many as you can, right?

For example TuQ has already declared that he will hand the PM and has already asked his followers to lay siege to the parliament.

And still that doesnt justify the use of lethal force indiscriminately.

The primary question DAWN editorial is making is how military could have acted when someone tried to lay siege to GHQ and it makes perfect sense.

No it does not. Please read the blog again, and then once again.

When the hooligans of TuQ and IK are damaging state property the call to their bosses (elected Govt) not to use violence (police) is tantamount to asking them to let the agitators wreck the whole parliament.

If you had followed the news and not Geo News, you would have known that any property that was damaged was done after the Police had opened fire on the protestors. What you and your Police doesnt understand is that you dont fight fire with fire.

The guud book on Mob Control says that a mob cannot be controlled and that's why it is called a mob and not an assembly. Please learn to differentiate between these seemingly meaningless words.

Yes, you thrown a live grenade amongst a mob and it will surely disperse, but is that the correct/preferred way to do it? i have guys known to me guarding in the Red Zone both in Army and Police uniforms, and they tell me that the Police not for once even warned the protestors or made use of mega phones. i mean, you dont just pull a gun and start spraying bullets of tear gas shells on an advancing mob. And hence in reiterate that you alongwith Police officer should once again read the guud book on how to control/disperse a mob.

BTW, i am sure you must have seen the video of SSP Asmatullah where he was 'motivating' his men during the day. Man, for a moment i thought the Police was going to attack Kashmir to liberate it and they were being charged for it. Aisay tu janab mainay kabhi TTP hideout pe raid karnay say pehlay pnay soldiers ko motivate nh kiya jaisay Janab SSP saab karhay thay.

(It should be noted that the article includes a picture inspired by Bollywood composed of pictures of ex-COAS,. It does not include the picture of notorious drunkard and womanizer Yahya Khan, a modern Nero born in Pakistan who was literally screwing prostitutes in a never ending drunken spur at the very moment a war was going on in East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh). Please be warned that it is not hearsay, there was a case against this man and military officers recorded testimony in court of law how dictator Yahya called in various women in his house or went over to brothels. The judge inquired how he could do it brazenly to which a close confidante replied we told sahib what you are doing is great sin but he didn't listen to us. Mashallah, such tolerance for debauchery by Ghayur jawans when it comes to their khaki sahibs, brings tears to my eyes. Mind it that even when it was officially accepted by Army that Yahya literally screwerd away East Pakistan at his death he was given a full military burial with all honors (thus the point that prestige of military as an organization overrules the prestige of Pakistan as a state was firmly established).

Lol...what this has to do with the blog? The pic was probably designed by @Horus so please take it up with him.

As a matter of record I am including the picture of Dictator Yahya, a shameful character does not mean that he should be removed from the star-ridden poster of other criminals who abrogated the constitution and committed illegal coups.

Yahya Khan enjoying the company of a famous actress/ singer Noor Jehan who was one of his many military conquests. This picture was taken exactly 6 days before the fall of East Pakistan.

Please dont expose your intellect by posting such pics in a thread which has no relation to it whatsoever. i realy dont want to post pics nor stories of their counterparts in civvies doing worst things then what you have mentioned in your last paras.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The first heads to roll should be those in ISPR. Like I said before for 14 days these self proclaimed "analysts" were willfully dragging army and ISI to gain some sensational coverage. But ISPR's rebuttal came too late, until the damage was done. Furthermore, ISPR also needs to work on its phrasing skills. But I find it more disturbing that even after ISPR has categorically denied Military/ISI's role in current fiasco, the chatter isn't dying down. Like someone said,"Though my sources have also confirmed that Gen Raheel has advised NS to resign but as a Pakistani after the ISPR has issued a clear statement, I would rather prefer to put my weight behind the ISPR's statement though I don't have even a slightest doubt about the integrity of my news sources". Army now has to send this dharna packing and concentrate on Zarb-e-Azb as the fallout has apparently started (15 station being hit in Karachi today). And teach some manners to the retired rumor spreading band of generals. As for me Army is not just the Gen Raheel, but word also represents our soldiers who have put their lives on the line in FATA against TTP. Its high time for the Army to introduce the culture of strict accountability as the individual acts have long reflected badly upon the entire institution.

I think ISPR is OK. They finally came around and understood the gravity of the insinuations by IK, TUQ and SR.

The problem is much much deeper and needs a long term solution.

One possible solution is that the "unelected" retired generals should not spread rumors about army takeover.

Given our sad political/governmental history, these retired generals do a HUGE disservice to Pak army when they openly support the anarchists like TuQ.

If a retired general is willing to take part in elections and be a politician, that's fine.

However the history of Pakistan clearly shows that we love our generals, but we do not vote for the retired officers. There is perhaps one exception from Chakwal area (Gen. Majeed I believe).

Other than that, these retired generals must maintain a distance from dirty and conspiratorial politics.

it hurts Pak army tremendously when our economy suffers due to long marches and dharnas.

How can we pay china for all the weapons we buy, if we don't have dollars earned from exports and tourism?

How?

Best regards