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Joint development of 5-generation fighter by Pakistan and China?

One question to all members (especially Chinese ones):-

Dont get me wrong here and I am not trying to compare either, this question is just out of curiosity.

Why is that CAC and SAC revenues are not too large?

What is the production capacity at CAC and SAC?

I mean, both CAC and SAC are big companies but then revenue wise why are they smaller than the Indian HAL ?
 
India dint add anything to Pak FA.... India is Not partnering Pak FA.... India is Partnering in FGFA.... Well as far as the Contributions there are Plenty, Co Designing a 2 seater version and Integrating Indian Systems as that of Su 30 MKI... If You want to Know what are the Indian Systems Engineered On MKI you are free to ask me, I will educate you about it....

More over, For India FGFA is more of a Technology demonstrator for AMCA, so India will try to Indigenize most of it...

The only thing we are taken as partners is for money. We are more like sponsors rather than partners. Whatever be the reason, its a win -win situation for both!
 
The only thing we are taken as partners is for money. We are more like sponsors rather than partners. Whatever be the reason, its a win -win situation for both!

Obviously, the technology and Experience which we gain while partnering them in FGFA will be of great significance while developing AMCA... Thats the Primary motive behind partnering the FGFA... Its a Win win situation for both Russia and India
 
One question to all members (especially Chinese ones):-

Dont get me wrong here and I am not trying to compare either, this question is just out of curiosity.

Why is that CAC and SAC revenues are not too large?

What is the production capacity at CAC and SAC?

I mean, both CAC and SAC are big companies but then revenue wise why are they smaller than the Indian HAL ?

CAC and SAC are all the subcompanies of AVIC(Aviation Industry Corporation of China), and
Subsidiaries and Affiliates

China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) is an ultra large state-owned enterprise and an investment institution, authorized and managed by the Central People’s Government. It is reorganized from AVIC I and AVIC II. The Corporate is managed through 10 business units: defense, transport aircraft, aviation engine, helicopters, avionics, general aviation aircraft, aviation research and development, flight test, trade & logistics, asset management. It has nearly 200 subsidiaries (branches) and over 20 listed companies.

AVIC develops in series fighter, fighter bomber, bomber, transport, trainer, reconnaissance aircraft, helicopter, attack aircraft, general aviation aircraft, UAV, etc. It also develops engines and missiles, such as turboprop engines, turbo-shaft engines, turbojets, turbofans, air-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles and ground-to-air missiles. It develops and builds brand aircraft including J-10, FBC-1, FC-1, L-15, JL-9, etc., brand engines such as Taihang, Qinling, Kunlun, etc. It provides advanced aviation-weaponry to Chinese military forces.

AVIC would uphold the principle as to “Connect the defense and commercial development and achieve synergy between the military and civil business” and vigorously develop civil and military transport with “new concept, new idea and new measure”. AVIC is developing and manufacturing aircraft in series, such as turbo propeller regional aircraft of MA-60, MA-600 and MA-700, transport of Y-8 & Y-12, and Z-9 helicopter. AVIC is the major developer and supplier of ARJ21 regional aircraft and will also play a key role in the large aircraft program.

AVIC works together with the world aviation industry extensively under the principle of “just partner but not competitor”. The corporate involves in international programs, such as FC-1, K8, EC120 helicopter, ERJ145. Meanwhile it actively participates in the key development programs, and develops subcontracting production businesses. It applies the advanced aviation technology into products i.e. automobile, motorcycle and engine, spare parts. It develops mechanical electrical products including gas turbines, refrigerating equipments, electronic products, environment protection equipments, new energy equipments. It also provides services such as: aircraft leasing, general aviation, air transportation, medical service, construction survey and design, civil engineering contracting and construction, real estate/property development.

AVIC is one of the leading companies in science & technology development in China. It has a high-level research network include 33 research institutes and China Aviation Establishment. It has a large team of academicians and national-class experts. A large number of research & test facilities take the lead in Asia or in the world. AVIC intranet, connecting all the domestic AVIC subsidiaries and affiliates, greatly facilitates the collaboration on information flow necessary for concurrent design and manufacturing at different locations.

AVIC commits to “contribute to the Nation with Aviation industry, strengthen the military forces and enrich the people” and carries out the philosophy of “commitment and integrity, innovative and preeminent”, firmly holds the opportunity of wealth revolutionary, takes great efforts to carry out “market-oriented reform, center-of-excellence-based integration, capital operation, globalization-based development, and industrial-scale-based growth”, strikes for higher, faster and stronger development, march towards the goal of becoming world-class corporation.
 
Any idea of the production capacity at CAC and SAC ?

Someone was talking about 32 J-10s per year is their current activity level but it is roughly 15% of their total productive capacity which is usually maintained in peace time (for CAC only)
 
majnashud.

I don,t no wat you mean. SELF SATIFACTION REPORT.

But before kids start spouting utter nonsense i just wish that they would so some research or just tale a dose of reality.

An earlier poster with a pakistani flag " no koad shelling" mentioned verge of bankruptcy, corruption etc and day drerams. with regards to gop and JXX.

My post was far gentler.

i DON,T UNDERSTAND your comment
I just wanted to say



GROW UP.
 
y such silly threads are started .how a country that is on the verge of bankruptcy,35th corrupt,raft with terrorism,high inflation,highly uneducated policy makers, can even think of such things... above all the thread relates a country that hasn't been able to produce a single motorcycle engine to a 5th gen,ultra modern aircraft....
it seems that this forum is run and populated by fan boys for fan boys

why do so many of us actually think of Pakistani defense acquisition's as things of luxury??? Do you think that these are mere toys made or purchased for ones fancy? Bought only because the neighbor's kid has one? Well they are hardly so. Defense acquisitions are govened more by necessity than desire more so in Pakistan than in the outside world strictly because of the tight budget as you so rightly mentioned. The PAF is an emblem of such budget "tight rope walking". This has been shown time and time again through out the years (the prime example would be the JF-17). Do you choose between one limb or the other? Of course you dont! You need them both!

If we really want to help let us start paying our taxes sir. Let us educate our children. Let us stop voting for the same old thieves we've tried before. Let us abandon our ways of idiocy and start thinking. Let us stop shouting in our living rooms and start acting. Let us grow some "ehsas", some sense of dignity. Let us part our ways with the "dead at heart" and become a "zinda qaum"! And ffs let us start saying "no" to all the BS! It is you, me and all the Pakistanis who are going to read this who are responsible.

And as for your last point we had never built an aircraft before the JF-17, a tank before Al-Khalid and a missile before Ghauri. Do you believe these to be mere tokens? Have you no faith in our abilities after all these achievements? Mind you a money laden neighbor has as yet failed to do so even when having started trying along time before us. For this we owe our salutes to our armed forces sir.

Pakistan zindabad! :pakistan:
 
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And as for your last point we had never built an aircraft before the JF-17, a tank before Al-Khalid and a missile before Ghauri. Do you believe these to be mere tokens? Have you no faith in our abilities after all these achievements? Mind you a money laden neighbor has as yet failed to do so even when having started trying along time before us. For this we owe our salutes to our armed forces sir.

I'm not sure about the Ghauri but I'm certain that Pakistan did not design or build the JF-17 or the Al-Khalid.

Would Pakistan be able to build the JF-17 independently without China's involvement? 100% no.

I think Pakistan has a long way to go before they are capable of even building a tank independently.

Regarding Missiles, Pakistan seems self-sufficient but their missiles are short ranged, not ICBMs.
 
y such silly threads are started .how a country that is on the verge of bankruptcy,35th corrupt,raft with terrorism,high inflation,highly uneducated policy makers, can even think of such things... above all the thread relates a country that hasn't been able to produce a single motorcycle engine to a 5th gen,ultra modern aircraft....
it seems that this forum is run and populated by fan boys for fan boys

It is a defence forum. So what should we discuss here? Mehangi Cheeni and Sasti Piyaz??? :lol:

In fact you are a bigger idiot than the fan boys I have seen. Pathetic post having no knowledge of defense related issues and you are here with 30+ posts to teach us what should be discussed. Why don't you go and give this advice of sanity to our politicians who eat billions of rupees every year. Wonder immature posters like you are ruining the image of this site. Defense of the country is not a luxury but the necessity but I think it would be difficult for you to comprehend. Keep this im mind and get lost until you understand this reality.
:angry:
 
I'm not sure about the Ghauri but I'm certain that Pakistan did not design or build the JF-17 or the Al-Khalid.

Would Pakistan be able to build the JF-17 independently without China's involvement? 100% no.

I think Pakistan has a long way to go before they are capable of even building a tank independently.

Regarding Missiles, Pakistan seems self-sufficient but their missiles are short ranged, not ICBMs.

Partly true sir. Pakistan did not solely design or build the JF-17 or the Al-Khalid (even the Ghauri is said to have had tremendous foreign input). Never once did I or the thread's name, "Joint development of 5-generation fighter by Pakistan and China?", suggest an independent venture. But you cant deny that Pakistan has had tremendous input in all these projects e.g. Al-Khalid, let alone Al-Khalid I, is a far cry from its ancestor, The MBT-2000. Further more there are still examples of Pakistan's prowess in independent development such as the cruise missiles that our military boasts.

If by building a tank independently you mean building each and every component by ourselves then yes you are correct otherwise please read up on http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-forces/88-al-khalid-2-a.html (I think this is the thread i read it in).

And as for ICBMs yes we dont have any as of yet but we have been hearing about Taimur and Tipu for a long time now: http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/86486-icbm-pakistan-intercontinental-missile-underway.html
But still do you really think we need them? Don't the medium ranged missiles that we have suffice for our current needs?

@Areesh:

Sir let us not treat someone's good intentions with harsh words. He meant nothing malicious. His/her concerns are only honest and sincere. If we think that his/her approach is incorrect then let us try to debate with him/her and change his/her mind. Ridiculing him would be unwarranted.

Pakistan zindabad :pakistan:
 
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