Jinnah’s journey from an Indian nationalist to a Muslim separatist

[Hamza913]

"Pakistan was to be a modern democratic state where religion would not be the business of the state. He appointed a Hindu as the law minister precisely to drive home that the newly formed Muslim homeland was not exclusively for Muslims but that minorities of whatever creed would also play their part in this new nation"

^^ Anything to say about this

How does this prove Pakistan shouldn't be ruled by Sharia?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Actually you are wrong Chaudhry Niaz Ali Khan was one of the many influential Deobandi/Salafi Muslim clerics who were won over for the creation of Pakistan.

It was only idiots like Maulana Azad who were against Pakistan and had faith in the Congress Party.

Only idiots like Maulana Azad ?? Firstly, Azad was not an idiot, he in fact was one of the most learned scholars

Secondly, all you can quote is the names of 3 to 4 prominent Deoband scholars who supported Jinnah, but you most probably didn't read this:

The rising popularity of Muslim League shattered the confidence of other parties , They became restless , andMaulana Madani (Rector of Dar ul Uloom Deoband and president of Jamiat e Ulema e Hind) called a meeting (Sept 1945) . The meeting was attended by over 150 delegates from different parties and they decided to oppose the League`s Agenda Tooth and Nail and formed a Muslim Parliamentary Board

(Deoband Ulemas Movement for freedom of India by Dr. Farhat Tabassum , p.158)

No where does it say in the article Jinnah said "sit down, sit down."

“During the meeting, a man, who called himself Bihari, put to the Quaid that 'we have been telling the people Pakistan ka matlab kya, La Ilaha Illallah'. 'Sit down, sit down,' the Quaid shouted back. “Neither I nor my working committee, nor the council of the All India Muslim League has ever passed such a resolution wherein I was committed to the people of Pakistan. Pakistan ka matlab, you might have done so to catch a few votes.”

https://www.dawn.com/news/839809

 

[MultaniGuy]

Only idiots like Maulana Azad ?? Firstly, Azad was not an idiot, he in fact was one of the most learned scholar

Secondly, all you can quote is the names of 3 to 4 prominent Deoband scholars who supported Jinnah, but you most probably didn't read this:

The rising popularity of Muslim League shattered the confidence of other parties , They became restless , andMaulana Madani (Rector of Dar ul Uloom Deoband and president of Jamiat e Ulema e Hind) called a meeting (Sept 1945) . The meeting was attended by over 150 delegates from different parties and they decided to oppose the League`s Agenda Tooth and Nail and formed a Muslim Parliamentary Board

(Deoband Ulemas Movement for freedom of India by Dr. Farhat Tabassum , p.158)

What's your point? So you too can quote 3-4 Maulanas who had faith in the Congress Party.

Only idiots like Maulana Azad ?? Firstly, Azad was not an idiot, he in fact was one of the most learned scholars

Secondly, all you can quote is the names of 3 to 4 prominent Deoband scholars who supported Jinnah, but you most probably didn't read this:

The rising popularity of Muslim League shattered the confidence of other parties , They became restless , andMaulana Madani (Rector of Dar ul Uloom Deoband and president of Jamiat e Ulema e Hind) called a meeting (Sept 1945) . The meeting was attended by over 150 delegates from different parties and they decided to oppose the League`s Agenda Tooth and Nail and formed a Muslim Parliamentary Board

(Deoband Ulemas Movement for freedom of India by Dr. Farhat Tabassum , p.158)




“During the meeting, a man, who called himself Bihari, put to the Quaid that 'we have been telling the people Pakistan ka matlab kya, La Ilaha Illallah'. 'Sit down, sit down,' the Quaid shouted back. “Neither I nor my working committee, nor the council of the All India Muslim League has ever passed such a resolution wherein I was committed to the people of Pakistan. Pakistan ka matlab, you might have done so to catch a few votes.”

https://www.dawn.com/news/839809

Are you a false flag? Because most Pakistanis want an Islamic state obviously.

Even if dawn says Jinnah said "sit down, sit down" show me which biography says that.

 

[M. Sarmad]

What's your point? So you too can quote 3-4 Maulanas who had faith in the Congress Party.

The point is : The Dar ul uloom Deoband openly and officially supported Congress and opposed Jinnah

 

[MultaniGuy]

The point is : The Dar ul uloom Deoband openly and officially supported Congress and opposed Jinnah

Only some of them did. Not all of them.

There was a difference of opinion.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Pak can be many things but never a Ram Rajya - Jinnah's success lies there. As you are so will you be ruled, says a Hadis-I Sherif. By the by, state philosophies are a dynamic staff too, and so are the levels and states of folks' Yakin and Ihlas!!! Staffs get clearer in mind when put in a differential mode. Compare to the state of the Indian Muslims - worse than that of Dalits!!! Born and raised in ghettos where births are cursed and deaths are celebrated!!

 

[M. Sarmad]

Are you a false flag? Because most Pakistanis want an Islamic state obviously.

Even if dawn says Jinnah said "sit down, sit down" show me which biography says that.

Well, we are not discussing what most Pakitanis want now ... We are discussing what Jinnah wanted .. do you get it now ?

False flag ?? Dawn is Pakistan's oldest and most widely read English-language newspaper that was founded by Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah himself as a mouthpiece for the Muslim League.

How does this prove Pakistan shouldn't be ruled by Sharia?

So, Jinnah appointed a Hindu as the first law minister of the country to impose Sharia law?? Are you serious ?

 

[MultaniGuy]

Well, we are not discussing what most Pakitanis want now ... We are discussing what Jinnah wanted .. do you get it now ?

False flag ?? Dawn is Pakistan's oldest and most widely read English-language newspaper that was founded by Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah himself as a mouthpiece for the Muslim League.

Saleena Karim already answered this.

Jinnah did not want a secular state. Jinnah talks about Islamic Socialism and Islamic democracy in her website.



http://secularjinnah.co.uk/

Well, we are not discussing what most Pakitanis want now ... We are discussing what Jinnah wanted .. do you get it now ?

False flag ?? Dawn is Pakistan's oldest and most widely read English-language newspaper that was founded by Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah himself as a mouthpiece for the Muslim League.



So, Jinnah appointed a Hindu as the first law minister of the country to impose Sharia law?? Are you serious ?

So what are you trying to say? Jinnah wanted a secular country? LOL!

Show me the proof that Jinnah wanted a secular country, when everybody knows this is not true.

 

[Hamza913]

So, Jinnah appointed a Hindu as the first law minister of the country to impose Sharia law?? Are you serious ?

You don't seem to understand.

How does what Jinnah did prove Pakistan should not be ruled by Sharia? Even if he wanted secularism, that doesn't mean Pakistan should be ruled by secularism.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Why does Jinnah talk about Islamic ideals then? Islamic Socialism and Islamic democracy then?

Any more words from you Samad?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Saleena Karim already answered this.

Jinnah did not want a secular state. Jinnah talks about Islamic Socialism and Islamic democracy in her website.



http://secularjinnah.co.uk/

As explained by Allama Muhammad Iqbal, Islam is compatible with secularism ... Your argument is invalid

 

[MultaniGuy]

As explained by Allama Muhammad Iqbal, Islam is compatible with secularism ... Your argument is invalid

Show me where Allama Iqbal said Islam is compatible with secularism?

My argument is not invalid, just because you said so.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Show me where Allama Iqbal said Islam is compatible with secularism?

The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam

by Dr. Muhammad Iqbal


The Principle of Movement in the Structure of Islam

.......

I now proceed to give you some idea of religio-political thought in Turkey which will indicate to you how the power of Ijtihād is manifested in recent thought and activity in that country. There were, a short time ago, two main lines of thought in Turkey represented by the Nationalist Party and the Party of Religious Reform. The point of supreme interest with the Nationalist Party is above all the State and not Religion. With these thinkers religion as such has no independent function. The state is the essential factor in national life which determines the character and function of all other factors. They, therefore, reject old ideas about the function of State and Religion, and accentuate the separation of Church and State. Now the structure of Islam as a religio-political system, no doubt, does permit such a view, though personally I think it is a mistake to suppose that the idea of state is more dominant and rules all other ideas embodied in the system of Islam.........

http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/prose/english/reconstruction/

 

[MultaniGuy]

The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam

by Dr. Muhammad Iqbal


The Principle of Movement in the Structure of Islam

.......

I now proceed to give you some idea of religio-political thought in Turkey which will indicate to you how the power of Ijtihād is manifested in recent thought and activity in that country. There were, a short time ago, two main lines of thought in Turkey represented by the Nationalist Party and the Party of Religious Reform. The point of supreme interest with the Nationalist Party is above all the State and not Religion. With these thinkers religion as such has no independent function. The state is the essential factor in national life which determines the character and function of all other factors. They, therefore, reject old ideas about the function of State and Religion, and accentuate the separation of Church and State. Now the structure of Islam as a religio-political system, no doubt, does permit such a view, though personally I think it is a mistake to suppose that the idea of state is more dominant and rules all other ideas embodied in the system of Islam.........

http://www.allamaiqbal.com/works/prose/english/reconstruction/

I have not read his books, so I cannot comment.

If he said such a thing I would disagree with him.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I have not read his books, so I cannot comment.

If he said such a thing I would disagree with him.

You of course are entitled to your opinion, but for me, the opinion and vision of the founding fathers of Pakistan is what matters ...



But you should know that we don't have to remove Islam from the constitution to create Jinnah's Pakistan. The 1951 Libyan Constitution, in my opinion, is a perfect example of what Jinnah wanted for Pakistan .....

The 1951 Libyan Constitution proclaims Islam as the state religion but formally sets out rights such as equality before the law as well as equal civil and political rights, equal opportunities, and an equal responsibility for public duties and obligations "without distinction of religion, belief, race, language, wealth, kinship or political or social opinions"