JF17:---More Hard Points Bigger Engine---Why!!!!!

[The Eagle]

What is happening in September?

Expecting JF-17 Thunder Block-III.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

You are failing to consider the entire gamut of threats faced by early warning radars. Jamming, spoofing, hacking, evasion are all possible ways to thwart radars.

Selective jamming will target a sharp beam of EM energy for a very short duration. Enough for a high speed aircraft to slip through.

Spoofing will create ghosts in an entirely different sector, taking away your prime assets.

Hacking/subversion will cause malfunction in the very software. I am including kill switches in this category.

Finally, no radar coverage can be comprehensive. Clusters of radars will cause localized cancellation effects creating a gap. ELINT assets are used to find out such gaps.

And creative minds can think of even more ways. Given the above, it is imperative for PAF to:

1. Acquire indigenous capability to create both the hardware and software for radars.

2. Adopt multiple modes of surveillance including thermal, acoustic, visual, space based, and HUMINT.

3. Utilize the power of MIMO processing to get a real-time 3D picture that is robust in the face of enemy subversion.

Once this coverage is up to scratch, then there is a whole world of FCRs, tracking radars, and SAMs.

And then comes the part of creating a comprehensive strategy to combine the various elements.



Hoe can you say with authority what technology is used by Indian Flankers?

and your suggestions are valuable and informative sir

 

[ziaulislam]

In an ideal world, I would see completely indigenous development. The result of JV MUST NOT be Pakistan paying money and someone else doing development, or Pakistan making local copies.

You have to start from JV and than move forward and imorove upon it.

Look at jf17
Do you thunk we could have done it without JV

 

[CriticalThought]

You have to start from JV and than move forward and imorove upon it.

Look at jf17
Do you thunk we could have done it without JV

As long as the vision is there, the path doesn't matter. Look at JF-17 Thunder. Even after 20 years, we dont have local infrastructure to design our own LIFT platform.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

As long as the vision is there, the path doesn't matter. Look at JF-17 Thunder. Even after 20 years, we dont have local infrastructure to design our own LIFT platform.

for that sir we need a critical mass of highly trained and motivated engineers and technicians.

 

[CriticalThought]

for that sir we need a critical mass of highly trained and motivated engineers and technicians.

Seventy years is enough time to produce anything. It has been criminal negligence. Both civil and military leaders are complicit. Whether it is because lack of knowledge, lack of vision, or lack of support. No excuse is enough excuse.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

The only benefit I see with more hard points is to carry more pods without sacrificing EFT's or 4 AAM loadout. A bigger engine can power up more powerful radar and jammers.

For air superiority role and engaging large attack parties, as we say in recent skirmishes, more bvrs would definitely help in engaging more targets thus distracting them from their basic objective.

What about Pak deep state letting the FO run by expats? Surely, they know much better how both worlds operate.

RD-93 is the same turbine-fan as RD-33. We are getting 20+:1 OPR wth marginally reduced BPR with RD-93. Trust us its as good as GE. We just gave you a demonstration on Feb, 27th.

Come on. Everybody knows F 16s played the major role on 27th Feb

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Seventy years is enough time to produce anything. It has been criminal negligence. Both civil and military leaders are complicit. Whether it is because lack of knowledge, lack of vision, or lack of support. No excuse is enough excuse.

true

 

[messiach]

Ok.

Come on. Everybody knows F 16s played the major role on 27th Feb

 

[FuturePAF]

Jf17 is slightly shortlegged /less range
With respect to hard points it just really need a pod hard point only

Engine is issue for two reasons
Low dry thrust
Non FADEC engine
Low effiency

A new engine will thus increase range significantly and might help in payload even with no change in airframe

We are only talking about 10-15% increase DRY thrust..Jets only have few minutes of after burn fuel..dry thrust is what is important

Increasing dry thrust and combining it with a lighter air frame are the only ways to move forward.
A better engine; the WS-19 is planned to match the GE 414, and would give the JF-17 a modern engine.
Hopefully Block III has a decent increase in percentage of composites, and if the Turks are helping with Block 4, then their knowledge of F-16 and F-35 construction should help optimize the JF-17 into a modern 4.5 generation air frame from a Thrust to Weight aspect.

If there is a requirement from the PAF for longer legs, then a design can be studied. Something like the Gripen E/NG's evolution from the C model. If we really plan to scale up the design going for a single engine TFX with a WS-15 class engine would be a better idea. hopefully by when the WS-15 will have matured and may even allow a TFX to be able to supercruise.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

for that sir we need a critical mass of highly trained and motivated engineers and technicians.

and enough perks and resources to keep them committed and motivated
its a 2 way process
demanding hardwork int he name of patriotism is unfair

 

[Fawadqasim1]

and enough perks and resources to keep them committed and motivated
its a 2 way process
demanding hardwork int he name of patriotism is unfair

Absolutely sir

 

[ziaulislam]

Increasing dry thrust and combining it with a lighter air frame are the only ways to move forward.
A better engine; the WS-19 is planned to match the GE 414, and would give the JF-17 a modern engine.
Hopefully Block III has a decent increase in percentage of composites, and if the Turks are helping with Block 4, then their knowledge of F-16 and F-35 construction should help optimize the JF-17 into a modern 4.5 generation air frame from a Thrust to Weight aspect.

If there is a requirement from the PAF for longer legs, then a design can be studied. Something like the Gripen E/NG's evolution from the C model. If we really plan to scale up the design going for a single engine TFX with a WS-15 class engine would be a better idea. hopefully by when the WS-15 will have matured and may even allow a TFX to be able to supercruise.

Or simple rd 33mk version. Even without any stutural changes the new engine will give better range

 

[FuturePAF]

Or simple rd 33mk version. Even without any stutural changes the new engine will give better range

Its a good Start, but developing the WS-19 to the level of the GE-414 would be a safer option, because a breakdown in supplies from Russia (for whatever reason) could cripple the future of the JF-17 project. The Rd-33 MK is said to reach 20,000lb in full afterburner, while the planned thrust in full afterburner for the WS-19 is 24,000 lb.

With massive investments in the WS-15 project; all needed performance capabilities can be applied to the WS-19. If the J-31 is to be a viable Naval fighter it will need an engine int he class of the GE-414. the GE-414G allowed the latest version of the Gripen to supercruise at Mach 1.2.

https://www.geaviation.com/military/engines/f414-engine

Sticking to the Russians wont allow us to push the JF-17 to its full potential.

If the PAF plays it cards right, and goes for licensed production of the WS-19 when it becomes fully mature, it could open up Pakistan to supply engines for other projects like the TFX.

The Turks never know when their suppliers could bail on them (as threatened in the F-35 row over the S-400 sale), and more avenues of supplies will keep their current suppliers in line.

 

[FuturePAF]

WS-19 Development making progress. Any Indications of its Specifications?
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--8SHVmVv...UvRuBndUCechImPj6n7-YQCKgBGAs/s1600/WS-19.jpg